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Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3
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Interesting bit of PR. I wonder if R.M.S. Titanic lodged a complaint or if companies wishing to visit the wreck are required to state their purpose?
The letter made the Titan trip sound like a serious scientific research project but was it really?
ArianeEmory
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Couple of unsourced JMOs or applicable disclaimer:
1) my husband said he saw a story about a prior incident with the submersible where one of the thrusters was installed backwards and so the sub could only move in circles ... Has anyone seen this?
2) all the talk of carbon fiber makes me think of motorcycle helmets, which are sometimes made of it. A random piece of trivia in my brain is that once a helmet has had a single impact, perhaps even something like accidentally dropping it onto concrete from a decent height, you are supposed to replace that helmet because it’s been structurally compromised. I don’t know how this translates to repeated exposure to extreme pressure, but it keeps popping up in my mind.
1) my husband said he saw a story about a prior incident with the submersible where one of the thrusters was installed backwards and so the sub could only move in circles ... Has anyone seen this?
2) all the talk of carbon fiber makes me think of motorcycle helmets, which are sometimes made of it. A random piece of trivia in my brain is that once a helmet has had a single impact, perhaps even something like accidentally dropping it onto concrete from a decent height, you are supposed to replace that helmet because it’s been structurally compromised. I don’t know how this translates to repeated exposure to extreme pressure, but it keeps popping up in my mind.
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“When things go awry for the traveler at places of so-called extreme tourism, then the financial cost of rescue and remedy often falls to the emergency services or the charities that are tasked with helping people,” said Philip Stone, director of the Institute for Dark Tourism Research at the University of Central Lancashire.
In the case of significant rescue missions, such as the Titan sub incident, “which will run into millions of dollars,” taxpayers will ultimately pick up the bill, he said.
“Governments are tasked with protecting lives, and despite the folly of some individuals diving to see the Titanic in an unregulated vessel, these lives are worth saving,” Stone added.
Sounds like the Titan needed permission to explore the environment around the Titanic. And this consulting firm (Explorer Consulting) was hired to write the application. There are obvious embellishments, but you get a lot of embellishments in all kinds of proposals, etc.
Interesting that the consultant who wrote this application also did a submersible dive in 2000 on MIR.
And that Jeff Bezos writes a testimonial for Explorer Consulting on their website.
Projects | Explorer Consulting | United States
Explorer Consulting has been involved in a number of innovative projects, from expeditions to find and recover the Apollo rockets, to film and explore the Titanic, and beyond.
edited date of MIR dive by consultant
Lawyer for Explorer Consulting who worked with Ocean Gate Expeditions to get approval for the dive to the Titanic. This is an article he wrote about his first submersible dive in 2000 on Mir 1. Apparently he has done two additiolnal submersibe dives since then.
His article is long but some sections of it have interesting descriptions of the Mir 1 sub and what he experienced in it, also the descent after launch and the inside of the sub getting very cold, eventually down to 34 degrees Farenheit (IIRC what the article said). Some other interesting details as well, dispersed throughout his article.
Some may find it interesting, given what we have learned about submersibles over the last week.
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Mother ship of doomed Titan submersible returns to Newfoundland | CityNews Toronto
The RCMP says it has formed a team to determine whether or not a full investigation is warranted in the deaths of five people aboard the Titan submersible.
toronto.citynews.ca
RCMP to investigate as well as TSB.
Not expected to be public information for approx 15 months.
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Experts said the remote vehicles will probably be used to continue surveying the site and to retrieve some items. But parts of the stricken submersible will probably be left on the ocean floor indefinitely, they said. It remained unclear whether any human remains were seen or could be retrieved.
“We should expect the R.O.V.s on site to identify as much as they can and also bring to the surface as much as they can,” said Jennifer K. Waters, the provost of the State University of New York Maritime College.
They would not be able to collect everything on the ocean floor, she said, but they could bring back some materials that would be useful in investigations.
If the implosion happened well above the ocean floor, fragments of the submersible may have spread across a wide area, said James G. Bellingham, a professor of exploration robotics at Johns Hopkins University. “They will have to search for Titan debris amid the Titanic debris on the bottom,” he added.
www.nytimes.com
Recovery costs are estimated at $250,000 a day. The Navy is also planning to assist with a crane capable of bringing heavy objects to the surface.
No word from OceanGate yet regarding recovery efforts.
“We should expect the R.O.V.s on site to identify as much as they can and also bring to the surface as much as they can,” said Jennifer K. Waters, the provost of the State University of New York Maritime College.
They would not be able to collect everything on the ocean floor, she said, but they could bring back some materials that would be useful in investigations.
If the implosion happened well above the ocean floor, fragments of the submersible may have spread across a wide area, said James G. Bellingham, a professor of exploration robotics at Johns Hopkins University. “They will have to search for Titan debris amid the Titanic debris on the bottom,” he added.
At Titanic Site, the Grim Job Now Is Assessing the Submersible’s Debris (Published 2023)
With hopes for rescue dashed, searchers are turning to documenting and perhaps retrieving parts of the imploded vessel, as an investigation of the disaster gets underway.
Recovery costs are estimated at $250,000 a day. The Navy is also planning to assist with a crane capable of bringing heavy objects to the surface.
No word from OceanGate yet regarding recovery efforts.
Kind of ironic considering the request for permission letter posted above, insisting the submersible would not affect the Titanic wreck itself.
JMO
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Mother ship of doomed Titan submersible returns to Newfoundland | CityNews Toronto
The RCMP says it has formed a team to determine whether or not a full investigation is warranted in the deaths of five people aboard the Titan submersible.
toronto.citynews.ca
Polar Prince, Investigators onboard.
Crew and family members onboard.
Mr. Nargeolet, 77, is the director of underwater research for RMS Titanic, Inc., an American company that owns the salvage rights to the famous wreck and displays many of the artifacts at Titanic exhibitions.
Paul-Henri Nargeolet Has Made More Than 35 Titanic Site Trips (Published 2023)
Mr. Nargeolet, a French maritime expert, is one of the five people aboard the missing submersible. He works for RMS Titanic, which owns the salvage rights to the wreck.
Here's this about Explorer Consulting
Explorer Consulting has been involved in a number of innovative projects, from expeditions to film and explore the R.M.S. Titanic, H.M.H.S. Britannic and Bismarck; to finding and recovering historic aircraft, shipwrecks and rockets; conducting scientific research on Mt. Everest; and launching the first private spaceflights. We excel in helping clients explore remote locations and achieve goals that others have only imagined.
AND...
Advising on the application of relevant domestic and international law.
Obtaining legal clearance and overcoming permit barriers.
Developing organizational structures, either non-profit or for-profit, and corporate registration.
Securing corporate sponsorship and strategic partnerships.
Negotiating film, television and literary agreements.
Securing media partnerships.
Protecting and maximizing the return on intellectual property.
Full-scale expedition planning.
Organizing logistics.
Chartering ships, aircraft and equipment.
Developing and implementing risk management plans and providing options such as on-site medical care, emergency evacuation coverage and alternative solutions.
Recruiting and hiring team members.
On-site expedition leadership.
Projects | Explorer Consulting | United States
Explorer Consulting has been involved in a number of innovative projects, from expeditions to find and recover the Apollo rockets, to film and explore the Titanic, and beyond.
About | explorerconsulting
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So it looks to me like Stockton Rush was the George Santos of the submersible community. Or the P.T Barnum.
On CNN they had a long list of all the respected engineering and other entities that Rush claimed were associated with his venture. NASA, Boeing, Lloyd’s and so on. All of whom have claimed they did nothing of the sort in the manner which Rush had described.
Still, I think lawsuits may not be productive. IMO those waivers were practically shouting “YOU MAY DIE! WE AREN'T REGULATED! DANGER DANGER DANGER! YOU MAY BE INJURED OR DIE IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS!”
With the possible exception of the 19-year old, who was legally an adult, old enough to marry or serve in the military but perhaps not fully cognizant of what he was getting into, all the other men were middle aged and older. The French Navy guy was tremendously experienced. They made their choice.
IMO the only way through that is how Rush misrepresented his company as having the imprimatur of all these professional agencies. This fact may therefore render those waivers moot.
Still, I have such pity for how these people died. Instantaneous implosion which would immediately collapse and crush them into microscopic particles. Then, I imagine, vacuumed up by the ever moving sea.
JMO
On CNN they had a long list of all the respected engineering and other entities that Rush claimed were associated with his venture. NASA, Boeing, Lloyd’s and so on. All of whom have claimed they did nothing of the sort in the manner which Rush had described.
Still, I think lawsuits may not be productive. IMO those waivers were practically shouting “YOU MAY DIE! WE AREN'T REGULATED! DANGER DANGER DANGER! YOU MAY BE INJURED OR DIE IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS!”
With the possible exception of the 19-year old, who was legally an adult, old enough to marry or serve in the military but perhaps not fully cognizant of what he was getting into, all the other men were middle aged and older. The French Navy guy was tremendously experienced. They made their choice.
IMO the only way through that is how Rush misrepresented his company as having the imprimatur of all these professional agencies. This fact may therefore render those waivers moot.
Still, I have such pity for how these people died. Instantaneous implosion which would immediately collapse and crush them into microscopic particles. Then, I imagine, vacuumed up by the ever moving sea.
JMO
Also, regarding protection of the Titanic
This is from 2012
news.un.org
This is from 2012
Titanic wreckage to be protected under UNESCO convention
The wreckage of the passenger liner Titanic will now be protected by a United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) convention that seeks to safeguard wrecks, sites, decorated caves and other cultural relics underwater.
2022 protection of the Titanic wreckage info
As of 2021, the Titanic is protected under the US-UK International Agreement on Titanic, the UNESCO 2001 Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage, and the Law of the Sea.
There are also domestic laws protecting the wreck. In the United Kingdom, the Titanic is protected through The Protection of Wrecks (RMS Titanic) Order 2003. Within the United States, the efforts to protect the Titanic started with the R.M.S. Titanic Maritime Memorial Act of 1986, which called for the international agreement and the NOAA guidelines published in 2001, and Section 113 of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2017. The 2017 Act states that “no person shall conduct any research, exploration, salvage, or other activity that would physically alter or disturb the wreck or wreck site of the RMS Titanic unless authorized by the Secretary of Commerce.”
As of 2021, the Titanic is protected under the US-UK International Agreement on Titanic, the UNESCO 2001 Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage, and the Law of the Sea.
There are also domestic laws protecting the wreck. In the United Kingdom, the Titanic is protected through The Protection of Wrecks (RMS Titanic) Order 2003. Within the United States, the efforts to protect the Titanic started with the R.M.S. Titanic Maritime Memorial Act of 1986, which called for the international agreement and the NOAA guidelines published in 2001, and Section 113 of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2017. The 2017 Act states that “no person shall conduct any research, exploration, salvage, or other activity that would physically alter or disturb the wreck or wreck site of the RMS Titanic unless authorized by the Secretary of Commerce.”
'Seems obvious that everything about going 12000 ft below sea level in a submersible is risky.
This week’s catastrophic implosion of the OceanGate submersible Titan killed all five of its passengers, many of whom paid a quarter of a million dollars for the opportunity to travel two miles below the water’s surface. Across the globe, on Mount Everest, where guided trips cost tens of thousands of dollars at minimum, 17 people have died or are missing in what is likely to be the deadliest season on the mountain in recorded history. This past spring, five people, including 56-year-old Czech billionaire Petr Kellner, died in a crash while heliskiing in Alaska.
You might imagine that the prospect of an adventure with a higher-than-normal chance of killing you would be a turn-off. But for many well-heeled travelers, the risk is precisely the point.
“Part of the appeal of Everest — and I think it’s the same for the Titanic, going into space, or whatever — is risk,” said Lukas Furtenbach, founder of mountaineering firm Furtenbach Adventures.
“And I think as long as people die in these places, it’s part of the reason people want to go there,” said Furtenbach, whose company offers a $220,000 premium option to climb Mount Everest with unlimited oxygen and one-on-one guidance.
Philippe Brown, founder of luxury travel firm Brown and Hudson, said his firm still has a long waitlist for its Titanic tours, which it runs in partnership with OceanGate, the sub operator behind the Titan.
“We sense no particular anxiety, no one has canceled anything so far, and inquiries for our services have increased,” Brown said. “We have seen a significant uptick in requests” for memberships, which cost between $12,000 and $120,000 a year.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/24/business/extreme-travel-cost/index.html
**Note the BBM part from Brown and Hudson. I wonder what their waiver states?
ETA: A Deepsea Expedition to see RMS Titanic
You might imagine that the prospect of an adventure with a higher-than-normal chance of killing you would be a turn-off. But for many well-heeled travelers, the risk is precisely the point.
“Part of the appeal of Everest — and I think it’s the same for the Titanic, going into space, or whatever — is risk,” said Lukas Furtenbach, founder of mountaineering firm Furtenbach Adventures.
“And I think as long as people die in these places, it’s part of the reason people want to go there,” said Furtenbach, whose company offers a $220,000 premium option to climb Mount Everest with unlimited oxygen and one-on-one guidance.
Philippe Brown, founder of luxury travel firm Brown and Hudson, said his firm still has a long waitlist for its Titanic tours, which it runs in partnership with OceanGate, the sub operator behind the Titan.
“We sense no particular anxiety, no one has canceled anything so far, and inquiries for our services have increased,” Brown said. “We have seen a significant uptick in requests” for memberships, which cost between $12,000 and $120,000 a year.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/24/business/extreme-travel-cost/index.html
**Note the BBM part from Brown and Hudson. I wonder what their waiver states?
ETA: A Deepsea Expedition to see RMS Titanic
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His priorities were clearly wrong. Instead of worrying about the safety of his passengers due to the materials he used- and cheaped out on- used carbon fiber, the glass that wasn't rated to withstand the water pressure at that depth, the cheapo joystick, construction pipes for ballast, glowsticks for lighting, and zip ties...If you are a billionaire and you are charging so much for a ride, you couldn't spend a little more on better materials???
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That's another way in which he does actually compare to Elizabeth Holmes. He mislead people into thinking that NASA and the University of Washington helped him build this craft. She borrowed the logos of companies like Pfizer to make people think that her product was safe and effective. She didn't kill anyone, but she traumatized them into thinking they had Cancer and miscarriages when they didn't.
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Thank you for the link. Ironically, retrieving personal artifacts of people who lost their lives in a tragedy in modern times would label one a looter. But wait 75 years and the same person would be labeled an explorer. Wait a century and the site qualifies for protection.Also, regarding protection of the Titanic
This is from 2012
Titanic wreckage to be protected under UNESCO convention
The wreckage of the passenger liner Titanic will now be protected by a United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) convention that seeks to safeguard wrecks, sites, decorated caves and other cultural relics underwater.
From the link (2012):
UNESCO’s Director-General, Irina Bokova, voiced her satisfaction that the Titanic could now be properly safeguarded. At the same time, she expressed concern over the damage and looting of the countless ancient shipwrecks that new technology has made accessible.
…
She called on divers not to dump equipment or commemorative plaques on the Titanic site, which is located at a depth of 4,000 metres off the coast of Newfoundland.
…
From now on, States parties to the UNESCO convention can outlaw the destruction, pillage, sale and dispersion of objects found at the site. They can take all possible measures within their power to protect the wreck and ensure that the human remains there are treated with dignity.
Titanic wreckage to be protected under UNESCO convention
The wreckage of the passenger liner Titanic will now be protected by a United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) convention that seeks to safeguard wrecks, sites, decorated caves and other cultural relics underwater.
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