Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[Warwick1991]

I think one of the problems with the Titan situation was that there was no authority or government agency to warn or file a complaint with, even though there were apparent structural and other design problems with the submersible. It was unregulated.

 

[Gardenista]

Rush was warned by many people, some wrote him letters.

I understand, but more could have been done. James Cameron could have taken out a full page ad in the NYT and explained his concerns. At the very least, you don't take a victory lap hours/days afterwords.

Something about this story really rubs me the wrong way. I really hope the families don't sue, that will make me feel much better about the whole situation.

 

[Gardenista]

experimental
adjective
US /ɪkˌsper.əˈmen.t̬əl/ UK /ɪkˌsper.ɪˈmen.təl/

using new methods, ideas, substances, etc. that have not been tried before, usually in order to find out what effect they have

experimental

1. using new methods, ideas, substances, etc. that have not been tried before…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[LinasK]

I understand, but more could have been done. James Cameron could have taken out a full page ad in the NYT and explained his concerns. At the very least, you don't take a victory lap hours/days afterwords.

Something about this story really rubs me the wrong way. I really hope the families don't sue, that will make me feel much better about the whole situation.

I don't see it as a victory lap, but yeah. Too bad more people weren't warned in advance...

 

[LinasK]

experimental
adjective
US /ɪkˌsper.əˈmen.t̬əl/ UK /ɪkˌsper.ɪˈmen.təl/

using new methods, ideas, substances, etc. that have not been tried before, usually in order to find out what effect they have

experimental

1. using new methods, ideas, substances, etc. that have not been tried before…

dictionary.cambridge.org

There's experimental, and then there's dangerous. Many engineers have said that Carbon Fiber does NOT withstand the pressures of compression. It's only strong for tension. Then there's the fact that it was past it's expiration date, no testing of the hull for material fatigue, and a window that wasn't depth rated to go that deep. Based on the window alone, there's no way you'd have gotten me on that sub. Then there's the fact that they were bolted in, and loss of communication. These people had no chance.

 

[MistyWaters]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/three-other-subs-visiting-titanic-almost-suffered-the-same-fate-as-titan-1.6887824

Three other subs visiting Titanic almost suffered the same fate as Titan​

“The loss of the submersible Titan during its expedition to the Titanic has raised questions about the vessel's safety, but Titan is only the latest sub to find itself in peril at the site of the world's most famous shipwreck.

Of the ten submarines in the world that can reach depths of 4,000 metres or greater, the Titan, owned by exploration company OceanGate Expeditions, was the only one that wasn't certified by any regulatory body, and OceanGate had been warned by both industry experts and one of its own senior employees that the sub might be unsafe.

Still, no matter how reliable the vehicle, diving to such extreme ocean depths is always risky. At least three previous expeditions to the Titanic had close calls that could have cost the crews their lives…..

…..In the months to come, there will no doubt be an investigation into what went wrong on Titan, but, though we can mitigate the risks, it will never be completely safe in our lifetimes to visit the deep ocean – one of the few places on earth utterly inhospitable to human life.”

 

[Scribo]

Question: has anyone seen images of the crew actually climbing into the Titan sub on June 18 and then launching? I can't find anything of this, even still photos. Normally, there's at least a launch video to document the dive.

And of course this is the only time a submersible and crew has been lost during a dive. Other researchers have also mentioned the lack of launch images. One more anomaly, maybe?

 

[ch_13]

I understand, but more could have been done. James Cameron could have taken out a full page ad in the NYT and explained his concerns. At the very least, you don't take a victory lap hours/days afterwords.

Something about this story really rubs me the wrong way. I really hope the families don't sue, that will make me feel much better about the whole situation.

We know that OceanGate was not hesitant to use the legal system to silence its detractors. I wouldn't be surprise to learn that all the critics got cease-and-desist letters to prevent them from speaking out publicly.

'Extreme danger': Ex OceanGate employee alleges firing for raising concerns over missing Titanic sub

A former OceanGate employee contends he was fired for raising concerns.

abc7ny.com

OceanGate had initially sued Lochridge alleging, among other things, breach of contract, fraud, and misappropriation of trade secrets - all claims he denied.

In its lawsuit, OceanGate accused Lochridge of breaching his contract by discussing the company's confidential information with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration "when he filed a false report claiming that he was discharged in retaliation for being a whistleblower."

Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

Warnings over the sub's safety were dismissed by OceanGate's CEO, emails seen by the BBC show.

www.bbc.com

In messages seen by the BBC, Rob McCallum told OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush that he was potentially putting his clients at risk and urged him to stop using the sub until it had been certified by an independent agency.

Mr Rush responded that he was "tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation".

The tense exchange ended after OceanGate's lawyers threatened legal action, Mr McCallum said.

 

[LinasK]

We know that OceanGate was not hesitant to use the legal system to silence its detractors. I wouldn't be surprise to learn that all the critics got cease-and-desist letters to prevent them from speaking out publicly.

'Extreme danger': Ex OceanGate employee alleges firing for raising concerns over missing Titanic sub

A former OceanGate employee contends he was fired for raising concerns.

abc7ny.com

OceanGate had initially sued Lochridge alleging, among other things, breach of contract, fraud, and misappropriation of trade secrets - all claims he denied.

In its lawsuit, OceanGate accused Lochridge of breaching his contract by discussing the company's confidential information with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration "when he filed a false report claiming that he was discharged in retaliation for being a whistleblower."

Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show

Warnings over the sub's safety were dismissed by OceanGate's CEO, emails seen by the BBC show.

www.bbc.com

In messages seen by the BBC, Rob McCallum told OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush that he was potentially putting his clients at risk and urged him to stop using the sub until it had been certified by an independent agency.

Mr Rush responded that he was "tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation".

The tense exchange ended after OceanGate's lawyers threatened legal action, Mr McCallum said.

Wow, another similarity to Elizabeth Holmes. She also threatened her employees with legal action to keep them from speaking out.

 

[drdetective]

Question: has anyone seen images of the crew actually climbing into the Titan sub on June 18 and then launching? I can't find anything of this, even still photos. Normally, there's at least a launch video to document the dive.

And of course this is the only time a submersible and crew has been lost during a dive. Other researchers have also mentioned the lack of launch images. One more anomaly, maybe?

No I have not. Interesting… What is the implication, though? I’m genuinely curious and haven’t followed the threads too closely.

 

[MistyWaters]

Question: has anyone seen images of the crew actually climbing into the Titan sub on June 18 and then launching? I can't find anything of this, even still photos. Normally, there's at least a launch video to document the dive.

And of course this is the only time a submersible and crew has been lost during a dive. Other researchers have also mentioned the lack of launch images. One more anomaly, maybe?

If there is such photos, no real reason they’d be publicly released with consideration given to the victims’ grieving family members IMO. Why is this important to you?

 

[gliving]

Titan sub disaster: Wife reveals it was victim's dream to see Titanic

Christine Dawood was on Titan's mothership, the Polar Prince, when news came through that they had lost communication with the submersible shortly after it began its descent last Sunday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"The wife of one of the Titan sub disaster victims said her husband, Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, and their teenage son, Suleman, were excited to see the Titanic wreck before they boarded the doomed vessel.

Christine Dawood and her daughter Alina were onboard Titan's mothership, the Polar Prince, when news came through that they had lost communications shortly after it began its descent at 8am on Sunday, June 18."

"Christine said those above water tried to remain hopeful, telling themselves: 'There were so many actions the people on this sub can do in order to surface... they would drop the weights, then the assent would be slower, we were constantly looking at the surface. There was that hope.'

She and her daughter held out hope to begin with after being they did not initially return.

She said: 'We all thought they are just going to come up so that shock was delayed by about 10 hours or so.

'By the time they were supposed to be up again, there was a time.... when they were supposed to be up on the surface again and when that time passed the real shock, not shock but the worry and the not so good feelings started.'"

 

[SophieRose]

Previous Passengers Recall Ill-Fated Titan: 'I 100% Knew This Was Going To Happen'

Talk to someone who went on previous trips on the Titan submersible and they’re likely to mention a technology glitch.

www.huffpost.com

From above article.

Reiss said he was in a “different state of mind” on the expedition because he was so engaged.

“You’re never hungry. You’re never thirsty. They have a bathroom on board. It has never been used,” he said.

“You just become a different kind of person. You even know you could die and it doesn’t bother you.”

 

[SophieRose]

From above article.

Reiss said he was in a “different state of mind” on the expedition because he was so engaged.

“You’re never hungry. You’re never thirsty. They have a bathroom on board. It has never been used,” he said.

“You just become a different kind of person. You even know you could die and it doesn’t bother you.”

More on Reiss' trip to the Titanic.

I was a Titanic sub passenger: The waiver said ‘death’ three times

“Simpsons” writer Mike Reiss safely returned from his 13,000-foot dive in the Titan submersible – but says “Death is always lurking, it’s always in the back of your mind.”…

nypost.com

When they hit the ocean floor, Reiss said, the pilot realized the submersible was just 500 yards away from the main wreckage of the Titanic.

“But we didn’t know where and the compass stopped working,” Reiss said. “We spent about 90 minutes just hunting around, trying to find the Titanic, but it’s just so dark down there.”

By the time the submersible “stumbled” on the wreckage site, the five had only 20 minutes to gaze at the tragic liner.

“That’s just the luck of the draw. That’s what you got. And you’re at the mercy of weather, and water and technical problems.”

The five crowded around the tiny porthole, only slightly larger than a washing machine door, taking turns to see the awesome sight of the Titanic, lit up by the Titan’s lights.

“I mostly felt like I was seeing a celebrity in person,” Mike said of seeing the Titanic wreckage. “My thought was, ‘Wow, she looks just she does in the pictures.'”

Passengers who took a trip to the site the following day had more than three hours on the ocean floor, Reiss said.

 

[gitana1]

This was what I thought. I didn’t believe the 19 year old was scared. I don’t think the others taking the trip would want a terrified teenager with them in inhospitable conditions.

The aunt is estranged. I bet she wanted some attention.

The mother of the 19-year-old who died on the imploded Titanic submersible says she was supposed to go on the dive, but gave her son her spot because he 'really wanted to go'

"I was really happy for them because both of them, they really wanted to do that for a very long time," Christine Dawood said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Sundog]

Titan sub disaster: Wife reveals it was victim's dream to see Titanic

Christine Dawood was on Titan's mothership, the Polar Prince, when news came through that they had lost communication with the submersible shortly after it began its descent last Sunday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"The wife of one of the Titan sub disaster victims said her husband, Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, and their teenage son, Suleman, were excited to see the Titanic wreck before they boarded the doomed vessel.

Christine Dawood and her daughter Alina were onboard Titan's mothership, the Polar Prince, when news came through that they had lost communications shortly after it began its descent at 8am on Sunday, June 18."

"Christine said those above water tried to remain hopeful, telling themselves: 'There were so many actions the people on this sub can do in order to surface... they would drop the weights, then the assent would be slower, we were constantly looking at the surface. There was that hope.'

She and her daughter held out hope to begin with after being they did not initially return.

She said: 'We all thought they are just going to come up so that shock was delayed by about 10 hours or so.

'By the time they were supposed to be up again, there was a time.... when they were supposed to be up on the surface again and when that time passed the real shock, not shock but the worry and the not so good feelings started.'"

What a heartbreaking interview. She lost her husband and son on Titan, and was on the mother ship, Polar Prince, with her 17 year old daughter, when the submersible launched, lost communication, and never returned.

She is a strong woman to give an interview while in the middle of such obvious grief. But what beautiful stories she shared of their family life, including the fact that Suleman, her 19 year old son, had a rubic's cube with him that he took along on the dive and he wanted to solve it in the depth of the ocean near Titanic and get in the Guiness Book of World Records, and his father had brought along a camera to take a picture of it.

Good to hear that she wants to continue to keep her husband's philanthropic interests and work alive as his legacy.

 

[Scribo]

No I have not. Interesting… What is the implication, though? I’m genuinely curious and haven’t followed the threads too closely.

I don't know enough to say, except that it was the first thing I expected to find when I started chronologically reading about this. There are always prep photos, thumbs up boarding images, shots of the vessel on deck, etc. As for deference to families, perhaps, but we all remember seeing the Challenger images countless times, after that tragedy. Quite a few unusual aspects to this incident.

 

[Scribo]

If there is such photos, no real reason they’d be publicly released with consideration given to the victims’ grieving family members IMO. Why is this important to you?

As I said, it's a common practice for many reasons, usually part of a press kit of images, that document the dive and the crew. I expected to see that on their site, but even before the fate of the sub was known, there was nothing there. Some stock shots and that was about it. But, like the story above about 19 year old Suleman, I'm sure we'll get more clarification on a lot of things, moving forward.

 

[gitana1]

I figured the aunt was full of it.

Teenager on sub took Rubik's Cube to break record, mother tells BBC

Christine Dawood told the BBC she lost hope of her son being found alive when the 96-hour mark passed.

www.bbc.com

Yup. So did I. She was estranged. Wanting her 15 minutes.

 

[gitana1]

I am part way through the video and it's sad and very informative about what the process was like. Hearing all those previous scheduled trips were cancelled and then this one went on and tragedy happened. Just sad.

My questions are: was he aware of the lack of regulation and testing? Of the innovation of the carbon fiber hull? Of the letter of concern? And if the lawsuit by the whistleblower?