Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[gitana1]

Sorry, probably another unpopular post lol.

He's another one who "100% knew this was going to happen" and didn't notify anyone or do anything. It seems like every person in this industry is gross.

I can tell you one thing for sure, if I knew that it was 100% going to happen, there is no way I'm giving an interview, especially one patting myself on the back.

A bunch of people in the industry tried to stop this. They all wrote a letter together.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The search operations, which spanned several days and involved several countries, incurred significant expenses, amounting to millions of dollars, according to a report published by The New York Times.

There’s no other comparable ocean search, especially with so many countries and even commercial enterprises being involved in recent times, said Norman Polmar, a naval historian, analyst and author based in Virginia.

The aircraft, alone, are expensive to operate, and the Government Accountability Office has put the hourly cost at tens of thousands of dollars. Turboprop P-3 Orion and jet-powered P-8 Poseidon sub hunters, along with C-130 Hercules, were all utilized in the search.

Some agencies can seek reimbursements. But the U.S. Coast Guard — whose bill alone will hit the millions of dollars — is generally prohibited by federal law from collecting reimbursement pertaining to any search or rescue service, said Stephen Koerting, an attorney in Maine who specializes in maritime law.

“The Coast Guard, as a matter of both law and policy, does not seek to recover the costs associated with search and rescue from the recipients of those services,” the Coast Guard said Friday in a statement.

How much did search for missing Titan submersible cost?

The bill for the Titan search will be well into the millions, but the Coast Guard’s part is covered.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[JennieM]

'I stepped back and gave my space to my son': Wife and mother of Titanic sub disaster victims reveals she was originally due to be on doomed vessel but gave her place to her 19-year-old child​

• Christine Dawood paid tribute to her son and husband, Suleman and Shahzada
• She said the father and son were excited for their expedition to see the Titanic

Wife & mother of Titanic sub victims initially planned to go on voyage

Christine Dawood had initially planned to go on the doomed voyage with her husband but 'stepped back' because her 19-year-old son Suleman (pictured with Christine) 'really wanted to go'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sarahlou]

I figured the aunt was full of it.

Teenager on sub took Rubik's Cube to break record, mother tells BBC

Christine Dawood told the BBC she lost hope of her son being found alive when the 96-hour mark passed.

www.bbc.com

I think it's hard to know. I think the truth might lie somewhere between what both said. I doubt the mother would say he didn't want to go. He might have been scared but wanted to still go though.

 

[Penny68]

.. Deleted as I hadn't noticed earlier the link had already been added by another poster.

 

[Penny68]

.

 

[JDG]

'Predatory' Titan boss Stockton Rush was 'hunting for rich clients''

Rush perished on board the Titan sub last Sunday along with his four passengers when the vessel dramatically imploded while en-route to the wreck 12,500ft below the surface.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JDG]

Families of Titan sub disaster victims could sue OceanGate

Lawyers said relatives could seek damages from any outside parties involved in the Titan's construction if they were found to be negligent and a cause of the implosion.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[sds71]

Winter Park couple drops lawsuit against owner of imploded submersible

"Money is a driving force in our economy, but honor, respect and dignity are more important to the human soul."

www.wesh.com

 

[bestill]

That was a very touching interview with Christine Dawood, I'm so thankful for her husband and son to have her as their spokesperson and not estranged family. Through her grief she still expressed the excitement and happiness that her husband and son had about the excursion.

As I read more the legacy of Rush isn't going to be a good one, imo. He appears to have been very self serving with this mission of his. I think we will discover that money is going play an important factor in the short cuts that were taken and the high risk. Maybe he played in a sand box that he couldn't afford to play in...all jmo.

 

[ArianeEmory]

A bunch of people in the industry tried to stop this. They all wrote a letter together.

And I assume if they had spoken up more loudly/publicly, for example giving interviews or making social media posts to the effect of "OceanGate is eventually going to kill someone", they'd have exposure for libel/defamation lawsuits?

 

[Cryptic]

Maybe he played in a sand box that he couldn't afford to play in...all jmo.

I think your opinion is very well stated. Your point summarizes the whole venture into one, simple sentence.

In the end, designing, building, and maintaining subs capable of tourism to the bottom of the ocean requires tens of millions- or perhaps more, not just a few million dollars.

Interested billionaires like Cameron and a handful of others have the money. Rush did not.

 

[iamshadow21]

I think your opinion is very well stated. Your point summarizes the whole venture into one, simple sentence.

In the end, designing, building, and maintaining subs capable of tourism to the bottom of the ocean requires tens of millions- or perhaps more, not just a few million dollars.

Interested billionaires like Cameron and a handful of others have the money. Rush did not.

Like young blokes who drive a Honda Civic but buy a Porche badge to stick on it. It's still a Civic.

MOO

 

[fred&edna]

Rush was warned by many people, some wrote him letters.

Some wrote letters that were never mailed. Apparently, they opted to meet with him later. I'm not sure why the letters weren't mailed. Per Bart Kemper stated here:

Bart Kemper (part of the Marine Technology Society)

Our Team | Kemper Engineering Services

kempereng.com

 

[vulture]

The sad state of journalism has been mentioned and I think it is an issue. Not just in getting accurate information about what happened, but in prevention.

Let me explain what I mean. Lots of people have been asking, rightly, if anything could have been done to expose unsafe practices before someone got killed. The people who were uneasy and cancelled trips, the man who was fired, who would they have gone to if they wanted to take it further and try to warn people? If regulatory agencies and legal remedies don’t apply or can’t help, people used to go to the press, but these days media doesn’t seem to do much other than help corporations promote their PR material and hide information that powerful people don’t want out there.

When I was in college, I wrote for the college paper. When I went into the office there was a sign on the wall that said “Assume Nothing”. I wonder if anyone teaches that any more. If I had to guess by the work they are doing these days I’d assume it would read “Don’t Ask Questions”. What do you think? How do you think journalists could be better watchdogs?

 

[Kingsley]

Of course I believe that everyone has to do their personal due diligence. But one can only do so much diligence and at some point you have to trust that you're not being led astray.

In hindsight it's easy to say that the passengers should have been alarmed that the sub was built from carbon fiber and it wasn't certified. Or maybe they should have checked around the deep sub community to see what kind of reputation Rush had. But on the other hand, the voyages to the Titanic were being written up in the NY Times and Smithsonian Magazine. The OceanGate board of directors included retired admirals and astronauts. There was a legendary Titanic diver associated with the project. The CEO was telling people that this was as safe as crossing the street. Is it really surprising if the passengers felt reassured and didn't dig further?

Case in point: Not that long ago, I took a rafting trip with an outfitter. I checked their reviews on Yelp and TripAdvisor and they were fairly positive. Was that sufficient? Should I have asked them questions about the conditions of their rafts and what materials they were made of? Should I have investigated if they were ever sued? Should I have confirmed that their state license was in good order? Should I have called the local chamber of commerce and asked about their reputation? How much due diligence is enough?


Edit - Let me add that my perspective on this has shifted somewhat since seeing those Jay Bloom texts. Stockton Rush was definitely underplaying the risks to his potential customers. He made this voyage to the bottom of the ocean in a largely untested 'exploratory' vehicle seem like a jaunt in the park. Maybe the passengers should have seen through him, but I bet he was a charismatic and convincing salesman.

I don't see Rush as a "huckster". If he sold a trip that he wouldn't go on himself, I'd agree.
He built and flew an experimental plane when he went to meet the Blooms.
His words and mindset were true to his actions. He believed in what he was doing and that it was safe enough.
Obviously, it wasn't. I wish the non-explorer father and son weren't on the sub especially. I wish the accident hadn't happened.
I also know that experimentation and exploration aren't free and funds are needed to support. It wasn't a commercial endeavor but a funded experiment.

It was a tragedy. There are lessons to be learned, but I don't think it was a good guy/bad guy situation.

JMO.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

 

[Kingsley]

The sad state of journalism has been mentioned and I think it is an issue. Not just in getting accurate information about what happened, but in prevention.

Let me explain what I mean. Lots of people have been asking, rightly, if anything could have been done to expose unsafe practices before someone got killed. The people who were uneasy and cancelled trips, the man who was fired, who would they have gone to if they wanted to take it further and try to warn people? If regulatory agencies and legal remedies don’t apply or can’t help, people used to go to the press, but these days media doesn’t seem to do much other than help corporations promote their PR material and hide information that powerful people don’t want out there.

When I was in college, I wrote for the college paper. When I went into the office there was a sign on the wall that said “Assume Nothing”. I wonder if anyone teaches that any more. If I had to guess by the work they are doing these days I’d assume it would read “Don’t Ask Questions”. What do you think? How do you think journalists could be better watchdogs?

I've read many stories about the warnings.
Most just are there to elicit outrage and clicks. Certainly the headlines are. Apparently, we, the great unwashed masses, cannot handle nuance. I'm not sure that many of the journalists even want to be watchdogs - vs just sensational. I wish journalists would be reporters of data and events more than advocates of a position where data that doesn't support the position is just left out.

Lost in the headlines are that Rush didn't ignore everything. He cancelled a year's trips and redesigned after one warning from a colleague. He was scarily overconfident to be sure, but didn't disregard everything. Very sadly, he didn't go far enough in safety. The legal waivers said it was experimental and that people could die with any malfunction. People accepted the risk.

Submersible Expert Raised Safety Concerns After 2019 Trip on Titan

After hearing a loud cracking sound during the dive, the expert, Karl Stanley, emailed OceanGate’s C.E.O., Stockton Rush, to urge him to hold off on future trips.

www.nytimes.com

JMO.

 

[MsMarple]

I think your opinion is very well stated. Your point summarizes the whole venture into one, simple sentence.

In the end, designing, building, and maintaining subs capable of tourism to the bottom of the ocean requires tens of millions- or perhaps more, not just a few million dollars.

Interested billionaires like Cameron and a handful of others have the money. Rush did not.

Hopefully investigators will conduct a forensic financial audit which may throw some light on Rush’s ambitions and actions.

It may turn out that he was struggling to find funds and was willing to take risks he might not have done otherwise.

Such behavior in other industries would label Rush as a loose cannon and wise investors would steer clear. The same may have been happening here. The big question that may never be answered is what was his state of mind when he stepped into Titan that day?

It’s crazy to me that Rush kept finding successful business owners and entrepreneurs - intelligent people - who were willing to ignore red flags.
All MOO

 

[Kingsley]

I keep thinking about Everest.
There are many potential routes besides the two most frequently climbed.
Most of the alternative routes have had more deaths than successes with many routes never successfully climbed.
K2 is another similar case. One's odds just aren't that good.

And yet, people still attempt to climb those routes - mostly experienced mountaineers.
And die.

Should they be prevented from doing so? Should expedition support companies be sued? IMO, no to both.
Could they get to the top of either using a more conventional approach with less risk? Yes.

I'll remain an armchair explorer. I don't like personal risk.
But I support people taking informed risks, even if the odds aren't good.

So were all the Titan explorers taking an informed risk? I think they probably were but that is MOO.