Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023

[JDG]

Approved was the wrong word, I apologize. I do understand that the company has found a way around the 'passenger' requirement by having the people on board go through short training program so that they are considered "crew". Apparently the company has also found a way around any industrial standards in testing the hull of the sub. IMO, the families of these passengers will most definitely sue the hell out of the remaining owners of this company.
'

Is there provision for a lawsuit once the waivers have been signed??

Sounds to me as if all outcomes were in the waiver, more than once.

 

[MsMarple]

IMO game controllers were the least of Titan’s equipment worries. From upthread, thanks @Lexiintoronto:

…At the meeting Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department—the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters.

Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (“PVHO”) standards. OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.”

Missing Titanic Sub Once Faced Massive Lawsuit Over Depths It Could Safely Travel To

Court documents reveal a former OceanGate employee had several safety complaints over the tourist submersible—and then he was fired.

newrepublic.com

 

[JennieM]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Thanks for posting this gliving.

In today's BBC Newsnight interview, he also told Victoria Derbyshire:

"[...] You lose track of time down there, it's a very surreal experience when you are going through that and ... you have a sense of utter isolation. You are at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, two and half miles down, very cold, very high pressures, so all the ordinary ways you might think of yourself being rescued from a situation like that just simply aren't valid, there are not at all tenable. [...] All in all it was more than an 8-hour ordeal, erm, so my heart, I mean my heart is breaking for these five people. I know what that's like, I've been there. And I'm just hoping they can experience a miraculous rescue the way I did.

[...]

The difference between my submersible and theirs that's worth noting is that mine was designed to be a scientific instrument, very serious business, not a lot of room, we were on our bellies the entire time looking at everything through a small porthole. This ship's that's missing, the Titan, was built specifically for tourism. So lot's of comforts relative to us, erm, and I worry that in the process of designing this ship, which is not tested by time the way my vehicle was, maybe something would have happened, something has happened there that didn't happen to me. Erm, we are just hoping that as long as they have oxygen, there's hope, but my worry is that there's no communication. At least my pilot had communication with the research vessel, even though we were stuck and the research vessel couldn't do anything for us, at least we had that going on for us, right? And this one doesn't. So, let's hope for the best."

 

[JDG]

Ok I’m trying my best 2 read the comments but they r coming in so much I’m confused could there man anyway that maybe they have been taken hostage or something like that by another country or something because this is starting 2 get crazy anything is possible

There are pirates all over the oceans of the world but I don’t think it’s a hostage situation.

The sub has either collapsed or got stuck down by the seabed, IMO.

Catastrophic failure is very likely the cause.

ETA: It could also be bobbing about on the surface but has not yet been found.

 

[IceIce9]

I have a friend who builds small planes, and they are all required to have the lettering “EXPERIMENTAL” in clear view.

 

[Emi]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Herat]

Thanks for posting this .

In today's BBC Newsnight interview, he also told Victoria Derbyshire:

"[...] You lose track of time down there, it's a very surreal experience when you are going through that and ... you have a sense of utter isolation. You are at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, two and half miles down, very cold, very high pressures, so all the ordinary ways you might think of yourself being rescued from a situation like that just simply aren't valid, there are not at all tenable. [...] All in all it was more than an 8-hour ordeal, erm, so my heart, I mean my heart is breaking for these five people. I know what that's like, I've been there. And I'm just hoping they can experience a miraculous rescue the way I did.

[...]

The difference between my submersible and theirs that's worth noting is that mine was designed to be a scientific instrument, very serious business, not a lot of room, we were on our bellies the entire time looking at everything through a small porthole. This ship's that's missing, the Titan, was built specifically for tourism. So lot's of comforts relative to us, erm, and I worry that in the process of designing this ship, which is not tested by time the way my vehicle was, maybe something would have happened, something has happened there that didn't happen to me. Erm, we are just hoping that as long as they have oxygen, there's hope, but my worry is that there's no communication. At least my pilot had communication with the research vessel, even though we were stuck and the research vessel couldn't do anything for us, at least we had that going on for us, right? And this one doesn't. So, let's hope for the best."

It's not like it's a mix of scientists used to the deprivations and danger.

The youngest two passengers are wealthy businessman and his 19 year old son. I wonder if they had as good an understanding of the danger involved.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I think for some of us it denotes an overall feeling that OceanGate cut corners when building the Titan. Logitech controllers and lights from Camping World don’t inspire confidence and in fact there have been problems with equipment in the past.

Heck, I have 30 year old pc keyboards that still function fine so I get what you’re saying. Would I be comfortable installing one into a vehicle that’s going to dive two miles plus in the ocean? For me, no way. JMO

5 things to know about OceanGate Expeditions, the company behind the lost Titanic sub

The Titan submersible is a one-of-a-kind vessel with some non-traditional parts. Here are 5 things to know about OceanGate Expeditions.

www.boston.com

What if they had taken the circuit board out of the controller and mounted it on a custom control panel? It would have looked much more professional and like more effort had been put into it, but nothing would have actually changed other than perception of quality. Many system builders do exactly that, and you'd never know unless you took the cover of the control panel off.

I'm not concerned by something like this because beneath the fancy packaging and brand names, the vast majority of modern computer equipment is almost exactly the same.

What I have a problem with is what seems to be OceanGate's poor implementation of the technology. You could use the best, most expensive systems on the planet. But if your implementation is poor your system still won't work. I get the impression the Titan is a poor and unreliable design from start to finish.

 

[duckcat]

imo it's not too far-fetched to use a video game controller in an extremely niche use-case, but the red flag for a lot of people is that the specific controller used is a "little brother" controller, aka a cheap hunk of junk with a known history of structural and connectivity errors among owners, usually running 30-50 dollars less than the real deal.

Like, most people can't wrap their head around the tensile strength of materials and shapes and etc. but tons of people HAVE owned a cruddy aftermarket controller, so I suppose it's natural people would cling onto that as their point of reference.

Yes, it seems that the “off the shelf components” are probably not necessarily responsible for what’s happened, but are rather just indicative of a pattern of cutting corners in general for OceanGate.

I have no expertise, but saw others weighing in how unusual it would be to use a carbon fiber hull. In other industries, carbon fiber is sought after and very expensive. The experts have essentially stated however that the weight of heavy metal in hulls is your friend when getting to those depths of the oceans.

I can only imagine that OceanGate would only use carbon fiber to offset transport or launch costs, another example of cutting corners.

 

[Gardenista]

Looks like they used to use a PlayStation controller. Pretty smart

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[arielilane]

Thought this was an interesting read. Talks about the 5 missing on the Titanic submersible.

Who is onboard the missing Titanic submersible: What to know about the crew

British billionaire and adventurer Hamish Harding was among the five people on the vessel, along with prominent Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood and his son.

www.nbcnews.com

Updated June 20, 2023, 4:40 PM EDT

A British billionaire and a prominent Pakistani businessman and his son are among the five people rescue crews are racing to find on board a submersible with a rapidly dwindling air supply in the North Atlantic. OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush was also on the vessel, a spokesperson confirmed Tuesday, as well as French diver Paul Henry Nargeolet, his family said.


[..] Harding, who lives in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, holds three Guinness World Records, including the longest duration at full ocean depth by a crewed vessel. In March 2021, he and ocean explorer Victor Vescovo dived to the lowest depth of the Mariana Trench. In June 2022, he went into space on Blue Origin’s New Shepard rocket, according to The Associated Press.

[..] The father and son, who are both British citizens, belong to one of Pakistan's most prominent families. Their firm invests in agriculture, industries and the health sector, while Shahzada Dawood is also on the board of trustees for the California-based SETI Institute, which searches for extraterrestrial intelligence.

His son, Suleman Dawood, is a college student in the United Kingdom, according to the family's company. Shahzada Dawood is married and has one other child.

[..] OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush was also on board the vessel, according to a company spokesperson. "OceanGate can confirm that CEO Stockton Rush is aboard the submersible as a member of the crew," the spokesperson said.

Rush oversees the company's "financial and engineering strategies," according to a corporate profile.

[..] Nargeolet, who is known by some as "Mr. Titanic," is the director of underwater research at the Experiential Media Group, which creates "museum-quality exhibitions" around the world, according to its website. He is considered a leading authority on the Titanic wreckage, according to a biography on the site.

Nargeolet has led several expeditions to the Titanic wreckage site, completing at least 35 dives in submersibles and supervising the recovery of at least 5,000 artifacts, including the recovery of the “big piece” — a 20-ton section of the Titanic’s hull, according to the biography.

Nargeolet had a 22-year career with the French navy before he retired in 1986 and joined the French Institute for Research and Exploitation of Sea. At the institute, he led the first recovery expedition to the Titanic in 1987, according to the bio.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

imo it's not too far-fetched to use a video game controller in an extremely niche use-case, but the red flag for a lot of people is that the specific controller used is a "little brother" controller, aka a cheap hunk of junk with a known history of structural and connectivity errors among owners, usually running 30-50 dollars less than the real deal.

Like, most people can't wrap their head around the tensile strength of materials and shapes and etc. but tons of people HAVE owned a cruddy aftermarket controller, so I suppose it's natural people would cling onto that as their point of reference.

The controller used on Titan isn't an aftermarket Playstation controller, it's a Logitech F710 Windows PC controller.

 

[Amonet]

I just started saying the same thing; if I were building a sub and needed XY controllers for maneuvering, I'd buy them from Digi-Key or 'Ali Express' or one of a bunch of other suppliers; there's a screenshot attached of joysticks from those two. There are also whole handheld "game controllers" (wired and bluetooth.) If you're building a submarine, you can't just order "thruster prop controllers" premade, you've got to design and build the systems. And the parts come from suppliers like these. MHO.

Exactly. Its purpose is to be an XY controller, not the games that they've become familiar through.

There's something in humans that says if it has a complicated name/title, then it must be better. That isn't always the case. "Thruster prop controller" might 'sound better' and it doesn't have the association with a game that 50% of households have in their home, but it would only be doing the same thing with the same internal components.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think for some of us it denotes an overall feeling that OceanGate cut corners when building the Titan. Logitech controllers and lights from Camping World don’t inspire confidence and in fact there have been problems with equipment in the past.

Heck, I have 30 year old pc keyboards that still function fine so I get what you’re saying. Would I be comfortable installing one into a vehicle that’s going to dive two miles plus in the ocean? For me, no way. JMO

5 things to know about OceanGate Expeditions, the company behind the lost Titanic sub

The Titan submersible is a one-of-a-kind vessel with some non-traditional parts. Here are 5 things to know about OceanGate Expeditions.

www.boston.com

One of the first people to sign up for the dive pulled out due to his own safety concerns.


A thrill-seeker who intended to join billionaire Hamish Harding on the missing Titanic sub pulled out of the dive because he thought OceanGate was 'cutting too many corners', it has emerged.
Chris Brown, 61, had paid the deposit to go on the doomed voyage, but says he changed his mind after becoming concerned by the quality of technology and materials used in the vessel
He told the newspaper that despite being 'one of the first people to sign up for this trip', he ultimately decided the 'risks were too high'.

Mr Brown and Mr Harding signed up for the then-£80,000 voyage after sharing a 'few beers' while holidaying on Sir Richard Branson's Necker Island.
Mr Brown, who says he is 'not one to shy away from risk', eventually emailed OceanGate and asked for a refund.

Hamish Harding's friend pulled out of sub trip over 'safety concerns'

Chris Brown, 61, had paid the deposit to go on the doomed voyage, but says he changed his mind after becoming concerned by the quality of technology and materials used in the vessel.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Gardenista]

One of the first people to sign up for the dive pulled out due to his own safety concerns.


A thrill-seeker who intended to join billionaire Hamish Harding on the missing Titanic sub pulled out of the dive because he thought OceanGate was 'cutting too many corners', it has emerged.
Chris Brown, 61, had paid the deposit to go on the doomed voyage, but says he changed his mind after becoming concerned by the quality of technology and materials used in the vessel
He told the newspaper that despite being 'one of the first people to sign up for this trip', he ultimately decided the 'risks were too high'.

Mr Brown and Mr Harding signed up for the then-£80,000 voyage after sharing a 'few beers' while holidaying on Sir Richard Branson's Necker Island.
Mr Brown, who says he is 'not one to shy away from risk', eventually emailed OceanGate and asked for a refund.

Hamish Harding's friend pulled out of sub trip over 'safety concerns'

Chris Brown, 61, had paid the deposit to go on the doomed voyage, but says he changed his mind after becoming concerned by the quality of technology and materials used in the vessel.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sounds like they were well-informed of the risks

 

[flowershop]

What are reasons the sub could lose contact outside of a catastrophic event? From what I understand, it is navigated through use of text messaging. Would this sub be able to resurface without that navigation information?

 

[JennieM]

Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Halifax – the air and marine search and rescue response in Atlantic and Canada – are preparing air vessels to aid the search for the missing sub.

The Royal Canadian Air Force CP-140 Aurora aircraft has surface search and sub-surface acoustic detection capabilities. It will provide continuous on scene support with additional aircrews and assets.

The Royal Canadian Navy ship HMCS Glace Bay will provide a medical team specialising in dive medicine, as well as a six person mobile hyperbaric recompression chamber. It is expected to be on scene by midday 22 June.

The Canadian Coast Guard Ship (CCGS) John Cabot is expected to arrive later today. CCGS Terry Fox is currently in St. John’s Newfoundland and Labrador, and the CCGS Ann Harvey is currently enroute.

Explorers Club speaks of ‘cause for hope’ in Titanic sub search – as it happened

Noises picked up by Canadian aircraft looking for missing tourist submersible but revised search produced ‘negative results’, say authorities; Explorers Club says data could potentially suggest ‘likely signs of life’

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

Canada sends navy ship with hyperbaric chamber​

The search mission continues to expand, with Canada's Department of National Defence saying a number of vessels are on the way.

A Royal Canadian Navy ship equipped with a six-person mobile hyperbaric recompression chamber is en route.

If the sub is located, the recompression chambers on board this ship can be used to treat or prevent decompression sickness. When divers are exposed to rapid decreases in pressure, nitrogen forms bubbles in tissue and blood.

The ship, called the HMCS Glace Bay, is also carrying a medical team specialising in dive medicine.

A Canadian Coast Guard Ship, the Terry Fox, is already at the scene, and will soon be joined by two others, the Ann Harvey and the John Cabot.

The vessels will be on standby to load search and rescue equipment and personnel.

A Royal Canadian Air Force aircraft has already been providing support with surface and sub-surface search operations in the area.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941

 

[JennieM]

• A remotely operated vehicle with a camera on board has been exploring the last known location of the sub
• The US military has deployed planes, equipment and subject matter experts to support search and rescue operations
• A French research vessel has also joined the search

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941

 

[SouthAussie]

The Royal Canadian Navy ship HMCS Glace Bay will provide a medical team specialising in dive medicine, as well as a six person mobile hyperbaric recompression chamber. It is expected to be on scene by midday 22 June.

There are 35 hours of air left. I think the HMCS Glace Bay will arrive in about 39½ hours?