Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023

[JerseyWasHome2]

It's not like it's a mix of scientists used to the deprivations and danger.

The youngest two passengers are wealthy businessman and his 19 year old son. I wonder if they had as good an understanding of the danger involved.

Money can buy the feeling of being invincible and cocky, sadly.

 

[MsMarple]

From what I can tell, none of the passengers would have had the engineering chops to correctly evaluate the systems on this small submersible. They could not have known that the preliminary testing, 7 years ago, rated it to 1400 meters or so beneath the ocean Not 3800-4000. They were very unlikely to have known that navigation was being done by sonar + texts from the pilot boat. Cell phones. No radios. No redundancy. Etc. Of course, I have no clue how far under water radio transmissions can travel - I do know that navy submarines have redundant communications systems.

And the ability to open the hatch from the inside, should it be necessary.

I don't think the passengers are able to adequately assess the total risk, they just know they're being warned that they could die doing this (like base jumping without any knowledge of how to evaluate the set-up; or, indeed, like going in for a new type of heart surgery.

IMO.

Hiya @10ofRods! What’s weird to me is that the CEO of OceanGate (Stockton Rush) is on the Titan. Certainly he must know the dangers better than anyone yet chose to board.

I can’t wrap my head around his decision in light of the many problems we’ve been reading about.

And apparently passengers are bolted in from the outside but I don’t know if they’re apprised of that information.

Ugh.

 

[Gardenista]

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

Internal email updates to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone show searchers heard "banging" in the area where Titan submersible disappeared.

www.rollingstone.com

“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.

 

[Warwick1991]

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

Internal email updates to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone show searchers heard "banging" in the area where Titan submersible disappeared.

www.rollingstone.com

“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.

Very interesting.. I hope it means people are alive.

 

[flowershop]

The US and Canada have supplied C-130 planes to conduct the search on the surface of the Atlantic should the submersible have surfaced.

Sonar detection is being used for the underwater search.

 

[linds1393]

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

Internal email updates to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone show searchers heard "banging" in the area where Titan submersible disappeared.

www.rollingstone.com

“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.

My anxiety is through the roof for this crew....

 

[SouthAussie]

I hadn't read that it had more than a couple of ways of resurfacing. The first was to discard ballast and slowly rise to the surface. This was, I believe, the intended method. I also read that the pilot ship had, in the past, helped with a winch (they had technical difficulties in prior years as well).

It was already posted here, so I think it's okay if I post it again:

Just came across an article that mentions the different ways it has of resurfacing ...


And there are seven different ways to return to the surface. Just redundancy after redundancy. They can drop sandbags, they can drop lead pipes, they can inflate a balloon, they can use the thrusters. They can even jettison the legs of the sub to lose weight. And some of these, by the way, work even if the power is out and even if everyone on board is passed out. So there's sort of a dead man's switch such that the hooks holding on to sandbags dissolve after a certain number of hours in the water, release the sandbags and bring you to the surface, even if you're unconscious.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/20/1183273102/titan-missing-sub-titanic-rescue-oceangate

 

[JennieM]

The submersible is carrying five people: Hamish Harding, a billionaire and explorer, Paul-Henry (PH) Nargeolet, a French explorer, Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman, members of a prominent Pakistan family and OceanGate CEO and reported Titan pilot Stockton Rush.

Missing Titanic sub could run out of oxygen Thursday morning: officials

A growing number of ships and planes have joined the search for a submersible that has been missing since descending to the wreck of the Titanic on Sunday morning.

www.ctvnews.ca

Upthread there's a post indicating the 5th person is Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate.

Thank you! I read that so many times today but my brain's given up on me Time to log off! Hoping for better news soon.

 

[kari1999]

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

Internal email updates to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone show searchers heard "banging" in the area where Titan submersible disappeared.

www.rollingstone.com

“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.

Shouldn't they be able to track the source of this banging? Im not very familiar with how sonar works.

 

[Arkay]

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

Internal email updates to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone show searchers heard "banging" in the area where Titan submersible disappeared.

www.rollingstone.com

“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.

Shouldn't they be able to track the source of this banging? Im not very familiar with how sonar works.

I know nothing about anything in this area, but it seems to me that it’s a good sign that the banging is at 30 minute intervals.

That feels like intentional banging, rather than just clanging sounds from potentially broken pieces of the sub smashing together.

If they all survive and are rescued, I hope they live the rest of their lives in a way that shows their gratitude.

JMO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

Internal email updates to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone show searchers heard "banging" in the area where Titan submersible disappeared.

www.rollingstone.com

“RCC Halifax launched a P8, Poseidon, which has underwater detection capabilities from the air,” the DHS e-mails read. “The P8 deployed sonobuoys, which reported a contact in a position close to the distress position. The P8 heard banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes. Four hours later additional sonar was deployed and banging was still heard.” The announcement did not state what time the banging was heard, or what was thought to have caused it.

Well. If that was the crew making noise it's both good news and horrible news. It means the crew was still alive, but the sub is either trapped or the flotation mechanisms have failed.

That's terrifying, and I honestly don't see any way to rescue them even if they're found.

 

[JDG]

B.C. businessman Ron Toigo visited Titanic in same mini-sub now missing

Toigo, who spent almost 40 hours in the Titan over two trips, says lack of communication is worrying but he's holding out hope for a rescue

torontosun.com

This man has been on the sub twice, got stuck on the sea bed the first time because the ballasts wouldn’t come off.

Interesting tale.

 

[BeachSky]

Very interesting.. I hope it means people are alive.

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard 'Banging' From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

An aircraft heard sounds at 30-minute intervals from the area where the sub disappeared, according to internal e-mails sent to DHS leadership obtained by Rolling Stone

www.rollingstone.com

At the end of the article it says ( sadly):

A DHS official told Rolling Stone, that as of 5 hours ago the Titan still had 40 hours of oxygen left and stated that the “situation looks bleak,” adding that they believe the banging was coming from the craft, but that haven’t heard any noise since yesterday.

 

[kari1999]

Well. If that was the crew making noise it's both good news and horrible news. It means the crew was still alive, but the sub is either trapped or the flotation mechanisms have failed.

That's terrifying, and I honestly don't see any way to rescue them even if they're found.

I agree, US Coast Guard Captain had stated that he could not give "the answer" when asked if a rescue would be possible if found. Though I am sure that everybody will try their best to save the crew once/if they are located.

 

[JennieM]

Couple filed lawsuit against Oceangate CEO in February demanding refund after Titanic trip was canceled​

From CNN’s Jamiel Lynch

OceanGate Expeditions CEO Richard Stockton Rush was sued in February by a Florida couple seeking a refund for a trip to see the Titanic wreckage they claim was booked with OceanGate but never happened.

According to the lawsuit, Marc and Sharon Hagle of Winter Park, Florida, signed a contract with Rush to go on a manned submersible dive expedition to the RMS Titanic on Cyclops 2. In November of 2016, the Hagles paid a deposit of $10,000 each, which they say they were told was fully refundable.

But after paying a total of $210,258 and seeing their expedition postponed many times, the lawsuit says they were unable to get a refund. The lawsuit alleges fraudulent inducement and violation of Florida’s Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act.

Rush is on board the submersible that went missing on Sunday. CNN has reached out to OceanGate for comment on the lawsuit. The online docket for Florida’s 9th Judicial Circuit shows no response to the lawsuit at this time.

The lawsuit states that the Hagles were each due to pay a $40,000 “milestone payment 15 days after Cyclops 2 made its first dive, approximately around October 2017. Under their contract, a $55,129 final payment each was due on February 1, 2018, which would have been approximately four months before the scheduled date of their expedition," the lawsuit says.

The couple, who were on Blue Origin’s 2022 space mission, became skeptical the expedition would take place and were contemplating requesting a refund, the lawsuit states.

It says Rush visited the couple in Florida in 2017 and explained the design of Cyclops 2 to them as well as the details of the expedition and crew that would be manning the submersible. He also told them Cyclops 2 would be ready to dive to the wreckage as planned, in June 2018, the lawsuit adds. The lawsuit states that Rush confirmed at that time that they would receive a full refund if they wanted.

The Hagles’ lawsuit claims they received a second contract after Rush’s visit that required them to pay the full balance for the expedition, a total of $190,258 more, which they wired to OceanGate. A month after they signed the new contract and wired the money, the name of Cyclops 2 was changed to Titan, the lawsuit says.

The June 2018 expedition was canceled two months later. The lawsuit alleges that the reason they were given was that OceanGate had not had sufficient time to do tests to certify the Titan could reach the depth of the Titanic wreckage, the lawsuit claims.

The new expedition was scheduled for July 2019, but canceled the month before, first saying the support vessel refused to participate and later citing “equipment failure,” according to the suit. The Hagles claim they were then told their new expedition date would be some time in 2020.

The couple then requested a refund of the $210,258 they had paid.

The Hagles claim that though they had been told by OceanGate’s expedition manager that the company was working on a “full refund plan,” they received communication from OceanGate demanding they participate in a July 2021 expedition. If they failed to do so, they would not be entitled to a refund or credit, the lawsuit says they were told.

The couple is asking the court for the return of their monies paid as well as punitive damages.

When reached by CNN, the Hagles’ attorney, Ronny Edwards Jr., declined to comment on the pending litigation, but said, “More important than the litigation, however, is the safe return of the entire Titan crew. My thoughts and prayers are with the crew and their families.”

CNN’s Ross Levitt contributed to this report.

June 20, 2023 Missing Titanic sub search news

Banging sounds were heard Tuesday during the search for the missing Titan submersible, according to an internal US government memo. Follow for live news updates.

edition.cnn.com

 

[10ofRods]

A winch from the pilot ship is not really a practical method of retrieval unless there's a physical connection to the submersible. There has to be a method of releasing the ballast in an orderly manner; bobbing upward like a cork would have its own problems.

Right. And the submersible had no beacon. Apparently, the pilot ship was using radar to keep track of the Titan, and that was Titan's only way of knowing whether it was close to the Titanic. Once the communication was broken, then there was no way for the pilot ship to let the Titan know where it was - and so, no navigation for the Titan.

The idea, I guess, was that the pilot ship would have known where the Titan was going to re-emerge, and be in that general area, if needed to offer a hoist (IIRC, they did one time use the winch - I think in 2021, when the submersible was halfway up or something - not sure what happened).

The main method of course was jettisoning weight. And since they stopped hearing from the Titan just as it hit the ocean floor/2.5 hours in, with no more communication, they were in no way ready to come back up. I really doubt they ever started back up.

I'm impressed with your views on this, @Warwick1991.

It would be on them to ask pertinent questions, demand enough proof to satisfy themselves of the risks/benefits.

If they didn’t, for whatever reason, it’s all on them.

Just an aside, I’ve been on a helicopter twice.

I would never do it again because I now know that the rotor is held on by 1 screw/rivet/whatever.

If that fails, you crash. Didn’t know that when I signed my waiver!

I'm not sure that's how liability law works - at least, not where I live. I had the impression that this was maybe a Washington state corporation, whose laws are very similar to California's. No one is considered to have to have enough expertise to know what questions to ask experts before purchasing the expert's services. So yeah, tons of lawsuits against everyone from doctors to boat concessionaires. Successful lawsuits.

It's your opinion that it is "all on them," but as someone who has worked in law firms (mostly plaintiffs) on and off for 50 years (woah!), I guarantee you that people do successfully sue even after signing a waiver. One cannot sign their rights away, is the motto of most plaintiff law firms.

Your doctor tells you something is safe and you agree to a procedure, but he forgets some crucial, life-saving stand-by preparation...you sure can sue.

Not that Oceangate has assets to sue for, but I disagree with you both in legal terms and moral terms. People with less knowledge should not be expected to know that two adjoining materials (carbon fiber and titanium) might have seams that were a problem. The experts are selling themselves and their expertise; they need to guarantee safety in conditions that a guest could only guess at.

IMO.

 

[Warwick1991]

At the end of the article it says ( sadly)

A DHS official told Rolling Stone, that as of 5 hours ago the Titan still had 40 hours of oxygen left and stated that the “situation looks bleak,” adding that they believe the banging was coming from the craft, but that haven’t heard any noise since yesterday.

It's possible that whoever was banging on the hull stopped, to conserve oxygen and energy.

 

[10ofRods]

Hiya @10ofRods! What’s weird to me is that the CEO of OceanGate (Stockton Rush) is on the Titan. Certainly he must know the dangers better than anyone yet chose to board.

I can’t wrap my head around his decision in light of the many problems we’ve been reading about.

And apparently passengers are bolted in from the outside but I don’t know if they’re apprised of that information.

Ugh.

Right? He said in 2020 that he would be on all the first voyages (and they did have some mishaps). He *clearly* believed in his own hype (the "real time hull sensor system" - which didn't have a way of sensing seams or seam slippage, as far as I can tell).

I DO wonder if the passengers were notified that they'd be bolted in. My DH about had a heart attack, observing that. Myself, I was brought up that on any boat or water-going vehicle, one had to judge how many people could get up a ladder from below-decks and how easy it was to get off the craft in a hurry (in case of fire or explosion - kerosine and other fires were common enough on boats in SoCal in those days).

At any rate, if the Titan surfaces (if it had ever surfaced), it was helpless and completely lost into the pilot ship arrived and unbolted the hatch. To do that, they were apparently using cell phones, texts and the pilot ship's radar.

I'd have thought that maybe some kind of digital tag would work. But I know there are emergency beacons of great reliability (although...satellite based ones might be unusable under water, I have no clue). Radio beacon would have been good.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Another article reporting the "banging" inside the submersible, which occurred at 30 minute intervals until it stopped, yesterdday.

Searchers for Titanic Tourist Sub Heard ‘Banging’ From Area, Internal Comms Reveal

 

[DS2021]

I cant imagine having 4 completely untrained people in a sub that small during a crisis