TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #24

[shefner]

I'm not sure, but I will look it up. At this point we don't know who's blood it is or do we? All's we know are "flecks" of blood correct?

The most recent article we have says "pool of blood"....and we haven't received official word about who the blood belongs to. Some other sites are posting the info...but I would say that's rumor at this point so I won't repeat it here.

 

[Coldpizza]

My other question along those same lines if Holly could have been maced? That would explain somewhat the appearance of being"drug" in to the woods but still on her feet.

 

[Coldpizza]

The most recent article we have says "pool of blood"....and we haven't received official word about who the blood belongs to. Some other sites are posting the info...but I would say that's rumor at this point so I won't repeat it here.

Thanks, I haven't been following as closely as in the beginning. Still am holding out hope though.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Hi docwho3! I am interested to hear more about your last theory.. The one you mentioned that a female may likely be involved at some point in executing the abduction..

With us having so very little to go on.. There isnt much else we can do but toss around possible theories seeing which one fits best with the little that we know..

I know eaylrly on when I first was plugging in different theories to see what seemed to fit.. One of those was involving a female as well(I posted about it in a much earlier thread and even gave a couple of examples of some known cases that involved a male/female "couple" as the abductors/murderers of young women around Holly's age)..

I'm not certain for any specific reason I abandoned this theory fairly early on.. But now at almost the 2 month mark and basically being at the same square one I would like to hear more on your theory.. It may be similar to mine or it could completely different dynamics of the male/female roles.. Either way I would like to hear more about your thoughts and theories..

Originally what even led me to plugging in the male/female perp theory was with Holly being such an extremely attractive young girl, with a very outgoing personality, and seemingly was liked by many.. This type of girl unfortunately many other females are envious to the core of.. They have deep seated anger and hatred for no other reason than the monster of envy and jealousy..

They look at Holly and see a girl who seemingly has it all(figuratively and somewhat also literally speaking).. She is beautiful, she's to be a smart girl(not a ding bat dummy), she seemingly has this great little core of immediate family with mom and dad and big brother who from all accounts all of them adored and loved Holly... She seemed to be the apple of daddy's eye and was treated very well.. Had a very nice new black Mustang.. And was doing well in college.. Great group of friends who all adored Holly Bobo and if you've seen her bf you know he's quite the cutie pie himself..

The above describes the life all GIRL's would want.. Right?.. IMO yes most would love to have the life Holly Bobo has.. And as wonderful as I see what all Holly has been blessed with and fortunate of having a core family structure that allowed her to flourish.. Just as I see all of these things as blessings and positives.. There are many females who look on Holly's life and see all of these things I just described in a totally different light.. Better yet thru a totally different lens they are looking thru and seeing these great amd positive things and it makes some females blood literally boil.. Causes anger and rage.. All born out of jealousy and envy..

Does that create a murderer?? No, definitely not as we have this unfortunately in every city, and every town around the world of girls being jealous of girls.. And murder it does not create..

But when you throw in another variable(or many even multiple variables) well.. IMO that changes WVERYTHING and IMO history has already proven that the basic human feeling of extreme jealousy and envy when mixed with 1 or more other variables.. Has led to murder on many occasions..

A couple of possibilities for these type variables that I speak of are things that we all know very well and many have even experienced.. Scenarios and situations such as long term relationships particularly speaking of those "first loves".. The one that at the time everyone thinks is their one and only.. Their soulmate whom their to share their lives with and marry.. Most times the one they lost their virginity to.. These combined with the extremely young age(high school thru early college)and not being emotionally equipped to even handle the best of situations involving these type of deep feelings.. Which again at that time seem as tho will last FOREVER. And that you will be with this first love FOREVER.. of course now when we look back this is laughable.. Seems so petty and childish but in that time and in that moment with the young immature minds and emotional capabilities it was anything but laughable especially if your beautiful "friend" who had it all somehow ended up with this person you felt was your everything..

Now whether or not the betrayal was intentional(as in Holly intentionally "stealing" the boyfriend).. Or possibly the betrayal was unintentional(as In the boyfriend became very interested in Holly tho Holly did not even reciprocate with interest in him)..**AND JUST WANT TO PUT THAT THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL.. NOT EVEN THEORIZING THAT HOLLY POSSIBLY DID THESE THINGS.. BUT RATHER AM ONLY DESCRIBING DIFFERENT VARIABLES WHEN ENVY/JEALOUSY IS THE CORE.. AND HOW IT HAS LED TO MURDERS**

I've seen it go both ways where there has been an actual betrayal of friendship in "stealing" their boyfriend.. Or I have also seen it when we are dealing with an emotionally unstable young woman who may just believe that this betrayal has taken place.. When infact it has not..delusional.. Which in and of it's self is indicative of some mental or emotional problems that could even further aggravate the volatile situation that is brewing(I.e. Core of envy.. Add in variable of deep betrayal.. And if that is even more compounded with mental/emotional instability).. Well.. That combo IMO WOULD BE A PERFECT STORM OF HOW A MALE/FEMALE ABDUCTION OF THE "other girl" and murder her..

I could literay babble on for days with different combos of different variables all with the core being envy/jealousy.. And Hos history has proven time and time again that it has led to murder...I'll stop there and to further read the details of this particular dynamic of the male/female abductors/murderers IMO one of the better well known cases where this happened is the case of the two West Point Cadets(bf/gf).. Bf cheated with very attractive young girl, Adrian.. And the jeLousy.. Anger.. Envy that it engulfed the gf with led to the plotting, planning, and execution of Adrian's abduction and murder..

Tho their story is not exactly what I am theorizing in Holly's case it makes clear the point that I am attempting to make about how these type of murders happen..

Sorry for another longwinded post..

docwho3 would love to hear more about your theories you spoke of above..

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The latest theories involve the possibility of there being more than one person involved in Holly's abduction. At the beginning of the case I recall that the idea of several young men taking Holly had been brought up and has been brought up again recently. As suggested above, it's possible one of those people could be a girl who somehow has enlisted help in harming Holly. I'd never think of that on my own but maybe there's something to it.

It's hard to wrap my brain around one person doing something like this to another person let alone a group but there's no doubt there are some sick people in the world.

Also there had been talk that Holly had a former boyfriend that had threatened her in some way. We never heard the details regarding that rumor. It's possible he couldn't get over the fact that she had moved on with someone else.

 

[shefner]

I am not docwho3, but I guess there are a few theories wandering around out there that I can summarize here:

1. Stranger followed and kidnapped Holly....this would take planning since Holly's home is secluded and she lives in a smaller community. Perhaps the perp saw her at school or at the store...or at a concert....and executed some measure of planning to kidnap her. In this scenario, I think Holly died early on.

2. Local male kidnapped Holly....someone not well known by her but obsessed with her. Possibility that Holly is still living.

3. Local male kidnapped Holly....someone not well known by her but with a grudge against a member of her family. 50/50 chance that Holly is living.

3. More than 1 local male kidnapped Holly....boys known to her. This could be something they planned against her for spite...perhaps one of the males was rejected by her and the others went along. They planned the kidnapping and hid Holly. I find it amazing that more than one male perp in this category could keep a big secret such as this....but each of them has a reason to be quiet. Holly could be living, but not likely.

4. A male (or more than one male) and a female have kidnapped Holly....peers known by her. Holly has made the female angry. She has made the female jealous. She has made the female feel inferior. The male has perhaps dated Holly....or desired/fantasized about her. They planned to kidnap Holly...they keep her alive for a time. I think the likelihood that they continue to allow her to live decreases over time.

5. Holly was taken...but is a willing participant. I think this is the least likely scenario. In this scenario, however, Holly is still living.

 

[shefner]

We have spoken some about the possibilities in this case.....Here is one I've heard mentioned but didn't include in my scenarios.

Check out this article:
http://ktar.com/category/local-news-articles/20110217/Expert:-Drug-cartels-also-involved-in-sex-trafficking/

 

[MsFacetious]

Since the dog barked, I tend to think it was a stranger, but different dogs behave differently of course.

Our dog will bark at my husband if he comes at me the wrong way.

He does it now just to mess with the dog. :innocent:

Same thing with the kids. If you tickle one and they yell like they are NOT having fun... the dog will get MAD.

If it was obvious to the dog that Holly was not happy, not okay... I don't think it would have mattered WHO it was. I know MY dog would have barked no matter who it was, if she perceived I was in danger.

 

[Melanie]

I'm not sure, but I will look it up. At this point we don't know who's blood it is or do we? All's we know are "flecks" of blood correct?

Plus, I want to add that the stun it self may not cause bleeding but if the stun caused Holly or the perp a trauma of sorts it may.

Interesting that a stun gun was brought up. It reminds me of how the Garrido's kidnapped Jaycee Dugard.

The Garridos’ car “kind of, like, creeped up on me”, Dugard recalled. Phillip was driving, and she thought he was going to ask for directions. “All of a sudden, his hand shoots out of the car window, and I feel this shock. I stumble back into the bushes . . . I feel like my whole body is – wouldn’t work. It was tingly . . .” As they drove away, Dugard heard Phillip laughing, “I can’t believe we got away with it.”



Mel

 

[goldiegirl]

I doubt a tazer would be necessary, at least in the driveway. Maybe they did use one later on to get her into the car or wherever they took her, but I don't think a tazer/stun gun would be required for a man to get a woman to walk with him. All it would take would be a knife, gun or some other weapon, but why disable her only to ask her to stand back up and start walking with you? I would also think that if he had used a stun gun on her and she was incapacitated for a few moments this would have caused quite the commotion, riled up the dog even more, and probably woken up Clint.

When I was in college a man used a stun gun on a student on a walking trail and raped her. This use of a stun gun makes sense, but I don't see using it when you still have a ways to get the victim to walk first.

 

[SmoothOperator]

goldie^ITA^.. stun gun would NOT Be plausible, atleast at this at first contact with perp stage.. For the reasons you gave..perp knew he had to get Holly from point A(at or near the carport) to point B(wherever the get-away transportation was)..

It would infact be much easier to have a compliant victim wk from point A to point B and the. Once at the get-away transportation I could see a perp using a stun gun to make his victim compliant.. I am almost certain that a little feisty thing like Holly would not most likely be like.." ok Mr. Badguy I'm gonna jump right in the trunk of your car so you can tame me off to rape and kill me".. I much rather see her that by the time that she reaches point B with the perp that she by then had a pretty good idea that something was bad wrong.. Even possibly realizing her life was very much at stake.. That's why I think at this particular point Holly would have fought like hell to keep from getting into a vehicle.. And in that scenario I can easily see a perp regaining control of Holly by using the stun gun to incapacitate her.. Quickly subdue her from escaping or drawing attention to where they are at and hurriedly getting her into the vehicle to get the heck outtA dodge..

I can also see at this point this could have been exactly when the neighbor heard the scream(s).. While perp was attempting to get her into the vehicle..Holly was able to let out scream(s) before stun gunned even..

That is the point IMO that would be the most likeliest time fir a stun gun to have been used on her..

 

[docwho3]

Since the dog barked, I tend to think it was a
stranger, but different dogs behave differently of course.

One thing that makes me think it was not a close friend was that she was
not just lured away.

If she really trusted someone as she did her boyfriend or some other person known & trusted
he could have just said 'hey, let me show you this really cool something.
(fill in your own 'something')
It's just over there. '
And once she was in the woods out of sight she could have been waylaid.
There would have not been any need for force at knifepoint from the very beginning.

On the otherhand, someone known to her but not trusted or someone not
known well to her & thus not very trusted would have some explaining to do
if he showed up at her home unexpectedly & would not gain her cooperation to walk
away from home with him suddenly without the use of a knife or other weapon.

I suspect a knife was used because of the blood left behind (at least
some of which might have been from the abductor because thrusting with
a knife can cause a knife to slip and result in the perp being cut on the
hand holding the knife.) I suspect he poked her with the knife quite hard
and fast but that is all just guessing.

I have, for now, sort of avoided the stranger abduction scenario because
LE have been quoted as saying they believe this was a crime by someone
who knew something about the area.

All I can say from the event description is that this abductor was not
someone she would trust to follow into the woods without being
threatened and harmed enough to cause her to comply.
This was not someone she would have expected to have show up at her home like he did.

To me that says he was not a close friend but maybe not a total stranger
or at least not a stranger to the area if LE is correct.

'. . .The person responsible for Holly's disappearance lives in the area,"
said Mark Gwyn, director of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
"Because of the terrain, you have to know where you're going, entrances
and exits. We feel the person is in the community. . .'
http://abcnews.go.com/US/holly-bobo-search-police-make-significant-find-hunt/story?id=13448569

'. . . Police believe that whoever abducted Bobo is a hunter or someone
familiar with the area near her home, which is surrounded by rugged
woodlands. . .'
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20055417-504083.html

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: the abductor NOT being someone known to Holly.. And that her being led away is more indicative of stranger abductor.. If it was someone known a simple ruse could be used to lure Holly willingly to said location at which time they chose to actually abduct her..

IMO that just isn't so.. I'd say much much more likely someone that Holly wouldn't be willingly/compliant in being lured by a known person to her would be a person that may indeed be very well known to her( yes even close friend or bf.. Or they were at one time)..Possibly a long history with but at some point had a history of problems with for an entire multitude of different possible reasons for those problems..

So just as was stated that Holly wouldn't willingly go with the stranger therefor she would have to been led away.. So too would Holly NOT WILLINGLY go with someone very well known to her that for some reason she feared, didn't trust, didn't like, etc, etc...

Being led definitely is not indicative that the perp most likely would be an unknown stranger to Holly.. Much more likely for the reasons and examples I stated above IMO if indicative of anything would be just as much if not more indicative of someone well known to Holly with a problematic past, current issue with, or just plain didn't like and didn't trust..

 

[docwho3]

(Please consider all words in this post to be spoken with warmth and a smile.)

Some people use the word 'friend' to mean anyone they've known a while.
Let me define close friend as someone you can and do trust.

Someone you know well but do not trust does not fall into this category.
Thus I said not by someone 'known and trusted'.

Known and distrusted is something else but bear in mind there have been
no news reports (so far as I am aware) stating that her relationship with
her boyfriend was rocky in in way or that she was distrustful of him.
No news reports of fights or threats between them either.

I think if that 'smoke' was out there we would have been reading about the 'fire'
of a relationship gone bad in the news reports.
For the time being I place the boyfriend in her 'trusted' category.

I mean that she would go (without force) with someone she trusted but not someone she
had reason to not trust & thus I said,
'. . . On the otherhand, someone known to her but not trusted or someone not
known well to her & thus not very trusted would have some explaining to do . . .'

She would have willingly gone with her brother (unless he was a known whacko
she had to fear) or some other trusted family member, even a trusted
neighbor but not with someone not well trusted

And yes, she was led away but only after blood was left behind.
I do not think this was him sticking himself & saying, 'I'll hurt myself if you
don't come along with me.'

An unwelcome exboyfriend or someone she had dated maybe once or twice
would probably not be well trusted to show up as this perp did and just
easily convince her to waltz away with him & would require some force.

So I still say this perp was not someone she loved & trusted currently.
She may well have known the perp but did did not currently have a good relationship
& trust or he would not have needed force.

Unless that blood left behind was somehow an injury ruse the blood
was probably more of hers and a small amount of his.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Very well.. I understand and appreciate your points made, doc..

And makes sense.. I am praying there will be break soon for this nightmare to end and whoever it turns out to be that is responsible pays the heavy price for the pain and anguish they have inflicted that can never be undone..

 

[docwho3]

Someone asked about the female involvement type of case.
Here is one example that came to mind when I read about Holly's case.
(I think smooth operator mentioned this one in a previous post too.)

'If you love me you'll kill her ... so he did'
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19970202/ai_n14460134/

Not saying this is what happened. I am only looking at possibilities.

 

[docwho3]

' . . .But the discovery has fueled their search in Northern Decatur County, and was based on a tip that
came in during a phone call, the sheriff said. . .'
http://abcnews.go.com/US/holly-bobo-search-police-make-significant-find-hunt/story?id=13448569

If someone has called in a tip in the past then perhaps more info will be forthcoming in the future.
I have hope that this case will eventually be resolved.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

As to a stun gun being used or not... Ive been zapped with one. Im not talking the big police grade ones that shoot darts (a tazer gun) but the hand held ones that run off a 9v battery. A quick short zap will NOT knock someone down to the ground and render them incapaciated for minutes at a time. I zapped myself with one and while I think I threw/dropped the stun gun, I did not fall over or anything. I don't recall if I made any noise or not. I just remember the zap. But it would be a very effective way to walk someone away quickly and quietly.

Now for the blood being found... that had to come from somewhere. Without knowing exactly what amount the blood was or how it was (puddle, pool, flecks, flecks scattered across the yard, etc.) its hard to say what happened. I doubt the attacker would have a knife and a stun gun, if the blood came from a cut or scrape. Possibly if he zapped Holly and she did fall she could have hit her head. Stunned he could have then grabbed her arm and got her up and led her off.

I would assume some weapon was involved.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Interesting that a stun gun was brought up. It reminds me of how the Garrido's kidnapped Jaycee Dugard.

The Garridos’ car “kind of, like, creeped up on me”, Dugard recalled. Phillip was driving, and she thought he was going to ask for directions. “All of a sudden, his hand shoots out of the car window, and I feel this shock. I stumble back into the bushes . . . I feel like my whole body is – wouldn’t work. It was tingly . . .” As they drove away, Dugard heard Phillip laughing, “I can’t believe we got away with it.”



Mel

I wonder how often these dirtbags use a stun gun. It's important to stay as far away from these guys as possible, given the range of these weapons.

 

[Oriah]

You know, I just had a completely random thought (and i apologize if this has been brought up before.. have been away for the most part and am catching up) but were foot prints found leaving the garage into the woods? scuff marks? and if so, what size were anyfootprints found? what kind of tread? TIA advance for anyone who can answer this for me.