TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #31

[Plumeria5]

I am new to posting here so my apologies for not being as up to date with all of the info as you all are. I have tried to keep up with Holly's case while lurking, but it is alot to keep up with.

Some things I am wondering if you guys can clarify for me:

It has beeen talked about that the neighbor heard a scream. Was it at a distance of 350 FEET or YARDS? To me this makes a difference. IMO it would be nearly impossible for someone to hear a scream from 350 YARDS. That is 3 and 1/2 football fields. That is very far to hear a scream.

How does this scream fit into the sequence of events for the morning? Specifically 7:30-8:00? Would the scream have happened before or after CB saw them going into the woods?

Has the blood been proven to be Holly's? And how big was the "puddle"?

Thank all of you in advance for any info that you are able to give

I did a little research on the Decatur County property search website. I was able to put in the Swan Johnson Drive address and use the measurement feature to get an approximate distance from the Bobo house to the property line of the neighbor (I believe that is the one that heard the scream.) I just went to the edge of the neighbor's property as it appears the house/houses are not far from the property line. It was over 200 yards, close to 750 feet. That is quite a distance for him to hear the scream but Clint didn't. That being said, I take it that both Holly and the neighbor's son were outside while Clint was inside. Still, Clint was a lot closer to Holly than the neighbor.
He must have been a sound sleeper.

 

[Oriah]

I just don't see the similar with Molly. Molly was taken from a pond.:waitasec:
Holly was taken from her home. Her case reminds me Jesse Kesse even Tara Grinstead who was taken from thier home. imo

Molly was abducted from a small, rural, very 'safe' community in the morning hours, from a very familiar and comfortable place. I think most people believe she was being stalked in the days/weeks/months leading up to her abduction.
There was a rather small LE presence at the time in her community, and the (very close) community subsequently became very involved. She was an older teen, who had no history of any sort of problems or issues with family etc- and in fact was quite the opposite- Molly was regarded as responsible, caring, family oriented, and driven. Just like Holly.

Her siblings assisted with this (which, I think, a very good read for anyone) :
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/217714.pdf

I firmly believe the profiling to be similar, despite the abduction from home vs work place.

(Just my opinion, of course.)

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I'd be interested to hear your take on where the blood came from. Maybe he punched her in the nose? If you've already written it, sorry, I missed reading a couple of weeks of posts.

yeah I've said that a few times. Lots of things could cause minor injury... busted lip, punch to the nose, torn earring, struggling against a knife resulting in a small cut.

I recently sliced the side of my finger with a craft knife. The cut was small... about 1/4 to 1/2" wide and about 1/8" deep on the side of my index finge rightt behind my finger tip. It bled like you would not believe for about 30 seconds... You would have thought Norman Bates was loose in my house. Certainly not life threatening in any way and I did not even need stitches, but I was surprised at the volume of blood lost. There was a fairly sizable blood trail from my work table to the sink and around the kitchen counter.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I have never known anyone NOT to use a gun because they were somehow afraid or unsure or insecure, especially someone familiar with guns/having a family gun/hunting with guns. Dozens of every day people shoot each other with little or no knowledge of how guns work.

 

[OldSteve]

Molly was abducted from a small, rural, very 'safe' community in the morning hours, from a very familiar and comfortable place. I think most people believe she was being stalked in the days/weeks/months leading up to her abduction.
There was a rather small LE presence at the time in her community, and the (very close) community subsequently became very involved. She was an older teen, who had no history of any sort of problems or issues with family etc- and in fact was quite the opposite- Molly was regarded as responsible, caring, family oriented, and driven. Just like Holly.

Her siblings assisted with this (which, I think, a very good read for anyone) :
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/217714.pdf

I firmly believe the profiling to be similar, despite the abduction from home vs work place.

(Just my opinion, of course.)

While no two cases, just like snowflakes, are identical, I'll add some more similarities:

Molly's mom got a quick look at the person believed to have taken her daughter. (Saw him the day before scoping out where Molly would be.)
But like Clint, she didn't do anything and wasn't sure just how bad the intentions of the person she saw really was.

The search for Molly ramped up quickly and was the biggest in MA history (just like for Holly) but nothing was found.

LE focused on Molly's brother and boyfriend initially. Then cleared them.

Molly was taken in the early morning and appears to have been led away into the wood but no trace of her...

LE let everyone trample the crime scene.

 

[~n/t~]

Are you saying there's a connection to Molly and Holly's cases? I saw the update on Molly's thread and the perp they believe is responsible for her abduction is an older man. Clint said Holly's abductor had a young voice. :waitasec:

 

[cluciano63]

Are you saying there's a connection to Molly and Holly's cases? I saw the update on Molly's thread and the perp they believe is responsible for her abduction is an older man. Clint said Holly's abductor had a young voice. :waitasec:

I didn't get the impression that anyone thought there was a connection...at least, I sure don't think so. I think the only connection is that they are similar in times of day and type of victim. I honestly believe Holly knows her abductor, at least to some extent. Molly seems to have been stalked at her work by a perp who waited for the perfect moment, whether he knew her or not personally.

In Holly's small town lifestyle, I think it is very likely she was acquainted with the man who took her and have always thought he probably did not intend to make off with her on that day, rather he wanted to talk to her and convince her of something (to be with him, probably.) And then he injured her in some way and panicked. I think the injury could have been minor enough not to leave a trail or a large puddle, i.e. a nosebleed, or something small where she was able to hold a tissue to the wound. Clint, for all of his sharp-eyed recollections, said she was walking normally in at least one version, which is why he was not alarmed until she was, apparently, not only out of sight, but out of the area...

 

[~n/t~]

I didn't get the impression that anyone thought there was a connection...at least, I sure don't think so. I think the only connection is that they are similar in times of day and type of victim. I honestly believe Holly knows her abductor, at least to some extent. Molly seems to have been stalked at her work by a perp who waited for the perfect moment, whether he knew her or not personally.

In Holly's small town lifestyle, I think it is very likely she was acquainted with the man who took her and have always thought he probably did not intend to make off with her on that day, rather he wanted to talk to her and convince her of something (to be with him, probably.) And then he injured her in some way and panicked. I think the injury could have been minor enough not to leave a trail or a large puddle, i.e. a nosebleed, or something small where she was able to hold a tissue to the wound. Clint, for all of his sharp-eyed recollections, said she was walking normally in at least one version, which is why he was not alarmed until she was, apparently, not only out of sight, but out of the area...

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't follow the other case to give an opinion. Only saw the update with a picture of the alleged perp.

I agree with your theory.

 

[OldSteve]

Are you saying there's a connection to Molly and Holly's cases? I saw the update on Molly's thread and the perp they believe is responsible for her abduction is an older man. Clint said Holly's abductor had a young voice. :waitasec:

I am not saying there is a connection between the two cases in terms of unsub(s).

 

[Oriah]

I am not saying there is a connection between the two cases in terms of unsub(s).

Me either- not at all. Just in the profile of the abductors.

Considering the similarities, it may be helpful in locating Holly.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I still think that in over 8 months that LE could not investigate every single male in a community of 2,500. Out of the population total you can write off X amount for being female. Then you can eliminate the 80 year olds, 10 year olds, etc... There can't be that many people in close proximity to look at.

 

[Oriah]

While no two cases, just like snowflakes, are identical, I'll add some more similarities:

Molly's mom got a quick look at the person believed to have taken her daughter. (Saw him the day before scoping out where Molly would be.)
But like Clint, she didn't do anything and wasn't sure just how bad the intentions of the person she saw really was.

The search for Molly ramped up quickly and was the biggest in MA history (just like for Holly) but nothing was found.

LE focused on Molly's brother and boyfriend initially. Then cleared them.

Molly was taken in the early morning and appears to have been led away into the wood but no trace of her...

LE let everyone trample the crime scene.

OldSteve, thanks for the added similarities. I meant to add her brother and boyfriend as a focus early on and totally spaced.

I'm curious as to what you think about the profile of Holly's abductor, given the similarities to Molly's.
Something has always tugged at me, which is that Molly's first aid kid was found open as if in use, and I have always believed she was approached by her abductor in a kind of 'classic' Ted Bundy sort of way- as in, "I need help" or "someone needs help over here".

Holly's abduction seems to mimic that to me- not only because of her nursing career, but because of the blood found in the carport, and the heading into the woods.

Could she have been lured in an 'urgent' fashion to assist someone 'injured or ill?' Perhaps even someone she knew? Could she have answered a knock on the door while her brother was sleeping and then the progression of events began- accounting for the voices CB first heard, then seeing through/past the carport, and then into the woods? KB's panic- the series of 911 calls? Then realization that that was not the case at all?

Thinking out loud of course. But it's always been a scenario for me. Curious about your thoughts.
TIA- and have a safe and happy New Year, ya'll.
Hopefully 2012 will bring Holly home to her loved ones.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Could she have been lured in an 'urgent' fashion to assist someone 'injured or ill?' Perhaps even someone she knew? Could she have answered a knock on the door while her brother was sleeping and then the progression of events began- accounting for the voices CB first heard, then seeing through/past the carport, and then into the woods? KB's panic- the series of 911 calls? Then realization that that was not the case at all?

Thinking out loud of course. But it's always been a scenario for me. Curious about your thoughts.
TIA- and have a safe and happy New Year, ya'll.
Hopefully 2012 will bring Holly home to her loved ones.

Being lured in that fashion does not seem to fit the evidence if we assume it to be true. We know Holly screamed, probably initially. That is corroborated by the neighbor and his/her 911 call. After the scream is when Clint heard voices just talking outside. Following that is when he saw Holly in the garage and later found blood in that location. So he saw his sister walking off after she screamed, after she said something outside and came back into the garage, after she bled on the floor. I don't think that really fits with someone just approaching her and she suddenly decides to leave (on the morning of her big exam).

I still think she was accosted and surprised outside the back of the house. She screamed and perhaps was struck. She and or the suspect exchanged some words and either she tried to go back into the garage or he ushered her back inside, not realizing Clint was home.

 

[Oriah]

Being lured in that fashion does not seem to fit the evidence if we assume it to be true. We know Holly screamed, probably initially. That is corroborated by the neighbor and his/her 911 call. After the scream is when Clint heard voices just talking outside. Following that is when he saw Holly in the garage and later found blood in that location. So he saw his sister walking off after she screamed, after she said something outside and came back into the garage, after she bled on the floor. I don't think that really fits with someone just approaching her and she suddenly decides to leave (on the morning of her big exam).

I still think she was accosted and surprised outside the back of the house. She screamed and perhaps was struck. She and or the suspect exchanged some words and either she tried to go back into the garage or he ushered her back inside, not realizing Clint was home.

But we never could verify the time or place of the scream- or even if came from the Bobo residence- or for that matter- if it was even human and female. I have never understood how the 'scream' was attributed to Holly? (Not that it was not, just cannot figure how that is known.)
Did LE release something about that I probably missed? TIA.

 

[cluciano63]

It is not even the scream, so much as how Clint said they walked toward the woods, not ran or hurried, i.e., that makes it hard for me believe Holly was expecting to find someone injured or in need in the woods. And the length of time apparently spent in the garage/carport/property before eventually walking away.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

But we never could verify the time or place of the scream- or even if came from the Bobo residence- or for that matter- if it was even human and female. I have never understood how the 'scream' was attributed to Holly? (Not that it was not, just cannot figure how that is known.)
Did LE release something about that I probably missed? TIA.

Well Karen said Clint did not hear the scream because he was asleep... that would place it early on in the series of events.

We can assume the scream was Holly and obviously the people that heard it though it was worth calling 911 about.

Since Clint has never mentioned hearing the scream it probably happened before he woke up. I believe in one interview he also mentioned not hearing it because he was asleep.

Most people could probably tell a girl's scream from a male's scream.

The person/people that heard it did say apparently it came from the dirction of the Bobo house. There are not a lot of houses in that area so it seems they put 2 and 2 together, called 911 and went to check on the house.

If it was not Holly screaming then it was probably something unrelated that just happened to include a girl or person screaming at exactly the same thing as things at the Bobo house seemed to have happened, which is probably unliekly.

ADDENDUM: all of this could be resolved if the 911 calls were released

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I have never known anyone NOT to use a gun because they were somehow afraid or unsure or insecure, especially someone familiar with guns/having a family gun/hunting with guns. Dozens of every day people shoot each other with little or no knowledge of how guns work.

So do you think it is odd that Clint did not respond with the use of the gun?

BBM: that was kinda my point, it is the YAHOO's who would shoot off a gun with very little knowledge of guns or the situation at hand.

Anyone with a gun license knows the responsibility that comes with it.

Agree they may not be unsure or insecure in it operation, but assessing the situation is the first thing they would be required to do. That judgement is the most important part of their licensing.

I don't think we know if Camo Guy had a gun--but maybe Clint knew. Possible?

 

[Carla Lashelle]

So do you think it is odd that Clint did not respond with the use of the gun?

BBM: that was kinda my point, it is the YAHOO's who would shoot off a gun with very little knowledge of guns or the situation at hand.

Anyone with a gun license knows the responsibility that comes with it.

Agree they may not be unsure or insecure in it operation, but assessing the situation is the first thing they would be required to do. That judgement is the most important part of their licensing.

I don't think we know if Camo Guy had a gun--but maybe Clint knew. Possible?

Yes but then everything Clint did that morning seems odd to me. So maybe it is not so odd? I don't know. It would have been much simpler if he just turned the light on and went into the garage and said hey whats going on... (like just about any other person over the age of 7 would have done).

I am not sure what Clint thought about the suspect having a weapon because he had said in an interview there was no force, no coersion. He contradicted the police statement that Holly was in fear for her life. So who knows...

 

[Hippy Chick]

I choose #1---I do think he was in fear for his life ( which certainly would be understandable)

This was early am if Clint was home from college or whatever maybe he had been out the night before partying, maybe he had just laid down, then woke up still feeling the effects from the night before, I remember my drinking and running around days if you don't get to sleep long enough you wake up still a little drunk. That is my best guess to his obvious confusion and slow reaction. Unless there is something wrong with him that we are not aware of.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I meant to mention this yesterday... and to me it just points out how much you can't rely too much on what reporters say...

We have a missing woman here Kelly Rothwell, and they did a new big search for her (body) using dogs. Now, the area they were searching is totally overgrown, marshy, swampy, etc. They had big dogs that looked like retrievers. Anyway, the dog handler said on TV that in overgrown areas like this where people COULD NOT easily travel, the dogs could go in and out to search. Now remember with Holly it was said the woods were so dense the searchers had to carry the dogs ??? Sounds like journalistic hyperbole to me.