TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[whatsupp]

I think if the authorities are in the mood to provide any answers it won't happen until after the funerals, whatsupp

In the mood? The public has been vehement about getting answers on this mass murder of school children/employees so I don't think they'll take not being in the mood lying down.

That being said the last funerals are Tuesday. Will be waiting with bated breath.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I would not advocate for them to be made public in their entirety.

But, if the standard practice (and it appears to be) is for the police to release summarized versions of manifestos regarding possible terror crimes, then that practice to needs to be consistent. That goes double in today's political environment.

RBBM
I would. I do not trust any editor or summary. Either give it to us verbatim or don't release it at all. It's too easy to "spin" such a document without even meaning to do so.

Every person has the option of reading it in whole, part or not at all if it is released verbatim & deciding what it means to them, if anything.

Also, there is no "standard" for releasing manifestos AFAIK. IMO the standard should be all or nothing. Whether ignorance is bliss is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone also has a choice to listen to opinions political or otherwise.

I want to know who was aware AH was honing her skills at gun ranges.

Jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

I would not advocate for them to be made public in their entirety.

But, if the standard practice (and it appears to be) is for the police to release summarized versions of manifestos regarding possible terror crimes, then that practice to needs to be consistent. That goes double in today's political environment.

I don't think the public deserves to know the details of the specific evacuation strategy but most certainly the public deserves to know, fully unredacted, the motives and thoughts of this murderer, and how it came to this.

No one has to read it if they don't want to.
Along the same route or similar to ME reports that are made public that many people, rightfully so, choose not to read.
But still made public for those that choose to read it.

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

One thing here that’s strikingly different than most mass shooters — as a youngster a number AH’s schoolmates were friendly with her. She doesn’t seem to have been particularly bullied nor do classmates report her as being odd in any kind of disturbing way. The classic description I think of with school shooters is bullied, not many friends, dark interests, kind of creepy. Not this time. I wonder what went wrong.

I’m solidly on the fence about releasing the manifesto, but if it is released I’ll be reading it. What caused this reportedly sweet, funny kid (and talented artist) to go so far off the rails?

Right? It is really a different pattern (but so were the Bryan Kohburger stabbings). It's awful to think that newer, descendant forms of crime are emanating out of fairly newish kinds of crimes.

It's possible this young woman saw herself as a kind of White Knight or hero of some kind (sacrificing herself to what she thought was Good).

I say that because some of our oldest records of crazy-odd behavior of young people is in Livy, where he records that in some year BCE, there was concern in Rome about some earthquakes (I'm remembering this loosely). Anyway, the priests are out in full force, trying to appease the demon/snake that's cracking the ground right under their very feet, brazenly close to a temple.

So this one handsome and dashing young Roman from a very good house, without warning or hesitation spurs his horse and makes the horse (with him on it) jump into this large chasm that has opened up in the rock. He takes no one with him, but for some unknown reason, he just suddenly thought that was the way to get to that snake-demon (and it's pretty clear that the adults knew that was kind of a metaphor? Maybe not).

I ponder that story a lot and you made me think of it. Stories of people throwing their children to a terrible death in order to appease an angry god, that kind of thing. I personally think that young man would today be considered...overly impulsive. We'd wonder if there was a screw loose. The big difference is that the young Roman man hurt only himself.

To me, this case has an eerie overlay of the kind of mass murder committed by Richard Speck and I just can't say why. I also think it's possible Hale was developing an "edgy" persona (for the circumstances in TN).

IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Right? It is really a different pattern (but so were the Bryan Kohburger stabbings). It's awful to think that newer, descendant forms of crime are emanating out of fairly newish kinds of crimes.

It's possible this young woman saw herself as a kind of White Knight or hero of some kind (sacrificing herself to what she thought was Good).

I say that because some of our oldest records of crazy-odd behavior of young people is in Livy, where he records that in some year BCE, there was concern in Rome about some earthquakes (I'm remembering this loosely). Anyway, the priests are out in full force, trying to appease the demon/snake that's cracking the ground right under their very feet, brazenly close to a temple.

So this one handsome and dashing young Roman from a very good house, without warning or hesitation spurs his horse and makes the horse (with him on it) jump into this large chasm that has opened up in the rock. He takes no one with him, but for some unknown reason, he just suddenly thought that was the way to get to that snake-demon (and it's pretty clear that the adults knew that was kind of a metaphor? Maybe not).

I ponder that story a lot and you made me think of it. Stories of people throwing their children to a terrible death in order to appease an angry god, that kind of thing. I personally think that young man would today be considered...overly impulsive. We'd wonder if there was a screw loose. The big difference is that the young Roman man hurt only himself.

To me, this case has an eerie overlay of the kind of mass murder committed by Richard Speck and I just can't say why. I also think it's possible Hale was developing an "edgy" persona (for the circumstances in TN).

IMO.

Very interesting! There are several things about this case that concern me. Hale drove right past the children on the playground in her own car. She could have opened fire from her car, sped away. Instead, she chose to enter the school and pulled the fire alarm knowing full well first responders would quickly be there.

The other thing she did was stop shooting at the students/teachers and turned her gun on the arriving police cruisers. I think she had a grudge against the government. The basis of that grudge, I can only speculate.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
We don't know if she was bullied and if she was bullied, we also don't know if the bullying stopped. Evidently her manifesto went into such great detail, LE wanted it analyzed by the FBI BAU. before being released to the public.

Thank you for explaining. I wasn’t sure whether I had missed some new information, which would have been entirely possible.

I hope that trained LE thoroughly examines the lives and writings of these killers.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

It's pretty obvious that someone who commits this type of atrocity suffers from some sort of mental health issue. Websleuths has no issue with members referring to and acknowledging that mental health can be a concern with respect to gun ownership. What we don’t allow beyond that in these dedicated threads is members proposing specific disorders when none of us is in a position to assess or diagnose the perpetrator whom we have never met, AND discussing gun control in general. It leads to a lot of bickering and politicizing and takes the focus off the specifics of the case under discussion.

You will all be pleased to know that, after discussion with Tricia, a decision has been made to open a thread strictly for the general discussion of gun control that has long been of major concern in relation to these horrific crimes and is of national interest.

We know that our members care deeply about and want to discuss such an important issue, and to discuss how mental health may factor into changes in gun laws and how that might be addressed.

Tricia opened a “Political Pavillion” in the past but things went south and the discussion had to be closed. We are trying this approach again with the gun control issue and hope that it will not suffer the same fate. It will be up to members whether the new thread can be discussed maturely and politely without bickering with other members who may have a different opinion about this very important issue.

We will have the new gun control discussion thread open in the next day or so, and will post a link in this thread.

As promised, we now have a new thread open titled General Gun Violence / Gun Control for general discussion.

General Gun Violence/Gun Control

Hi All, Tricia has asked us to open up a discussion about gun violence, as clearly, there is a problem with gun violence, especially in the United States. In many of the cases that come to Websleuths, gun violence is the cause, and we don't/can't allow general gun violence/control discussion...

www.websleuths.com

 

[PawneeDew]

I don't think we will ever know the specifics, making them public could help the next maniac in their quest to kill children. I can imagine the protocols taught are very similar in each school setting and if we know what they are then any informed lunatic will find their targets much quicker.
I am in are of the staff and pupils who followed their lockdown drills so well and so quickly, especially as it's reported that Hale pulled the fire alarm to try to flush out more victims. I'm glad she didn't know where they were hiding, or where they were exiting the building.
JMO

I thought it was one of the children that was killed; that pulled the fire alarm. The little girl was a hero...Hopefully not mistaken? But; even so.

 

[K9Enzo]

Very interesting! There are several things about this case that concern me. Hale drove right past the children on the playground in her own car. She could have opened fire from her car, sped away. Instead, she chose to enter the school and pulled the fire alarm knowing full well first responders would quickly be there.

The other thing she did was stop shooting at the students/teachers and turned her gun on the arriving police cruisers. I think she had a grudge against the government. The basis of that grudge, I can only speculate.

She wanted to murder children and adults at a school. She wanted their horror as she shot out the glass in the doors, walked the hallways, briefly in control. She wanted to terrorize them. She also accepted her death and I believe welcomed it. She shot at police because she’s on a killing spree. The police were going to engage her, if she’s shooting at police, and they want her focus, children’s lives will be saved. imo

It’s difficult for rational people to apply logic to irrational behavior. imo

 

[MyBelle]

She wanted to murder children and adults at a school. She wanted their horror as she shot out the glass in the doors, walked the hallways, briefly in control. She wanted to terrorize them. She also accepted her death and I believe welcomed it. She shot at police because she’s on a killing spree. The police were going to engage her, if she’s shooting at police, and they want her focus, children’s lives will be saved. imo

It’s difficult for rational people to apply logic to irrational behavior. imo

It is important for law enforcement to analyze the behavior and work with schools in order to try to prevent it from happening again.

 

[MyBelle]

I thought it was one of the children that was killed; that pulled the fire alarm. The little girl was a hero...Hopefully not mistaken? But; even so.

The killer pulled the fire alarm. I'm not sure why the children fled outside the classroom. I think the school realized there was a breach of their security and children were supposed to shelter in place. Everything about this tragedy was horrific.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I thought it was one of the children that was killed; that pulled the fire alarm. The little girl was a hero...Hopefully not mistaken? But; even so.

That's what was first reported, but now it's come out that the murderer pulled the alarm, and Evelyn was a class leader and was trying to lead everyone as per their drill. She absolutely was a hero.

 

[formerlyme]

I am still curious as to the alarms sounding, was it a panic button, or the breaking glass of the doors the alarm seemed to be going off the second AH stepped in.

 

[housewife]

RBBM
I would. I do not trust any editor or summary. Either give it to us verbatim or don't release it at all. It's too easy to "spin" such a document without even meaning to do so.

Every person has the option of reading it in whole, part or not at all if it is released verbatim & deciding what it means to them, if anything.

Also, there is no "standard" for releasing manifestos AFAIK. IMO the standard should be all or nothing. Whether ignorance is bliss is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone also has a choice to listen to opinions political or otherwise.

I want to know who was aware AH was honing her skills at gun ranges.

Jmo

I think you have to sign in each time you go to the range, so they should have a record of how many times she practiced there.

I hope the FBI BAU or other experts are allowed to study the shooter's writings. I don't know if they will ever be released to the public. Authorities did not release the motives behind the 2017 Vegas shooter until the Wall Street Journal requested them recently.

link: FBI documents give new view into Las Vegas shooter's mindset

 

[Sundog]

I think you have to sign in each time you go to the range, so they should have a record of how many times she practiced there.

I hope the FBI BAU or other experts are allowed to study the shooter's writings. I don't know if they will ever be released to the public. Authorities did not release the motives behind the 2017 Vegas shooter until the Wall Street Journal requested them recently.

link: FBI documents give new view into Las Vegas shooter's mindset

I am pretty sure the shooter's manifesto, maps and other documents will be released. I think the media will request them, and also Congress is pushing the Dept of Justice to release the documents in order to determine if the shootings were a hate crime. Our churches and other religious institutions have a right to know that, since a Christian school was targeted.

 

[sds71]

The ongoing investigation into the March 27 murders of six persons inside The Covenant School continues to show, from all information currently available, that killer Audrey Hale acted totally alone. In the collective writings by Hale found in her vehicle in the school parking lot, and others later found in the bedroom of her home, she documented, in journals, her planning over a period of months to commit mass murder at The Covenant School.

The writings remain under careful review by the MNPD and the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit based in Quantico, Virginia. The motive for Hale’s actions has not been established and remains under investigation by the Homicide Unit in consultation with the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit. It is known that Hale considered the actions of other mass murderers.

The investigation shows that Hale fired a total of 152 rounds (126 5.56 rifle rounds and 26 nine millimeter rounds) from the time she shot her way into the school until she was killed by police. Two officers fired on Hale. Officer Rex Engelbert discharged a total of four 5.56 rounds from his rifle; Officer Michael Collazo discharged a total of four rounds from his department-issued nine millimeter pistol.

Scores of police personnel from a number of components responded to the Covenant call last Monday. The department’s Professional Wellness Section is conducting critical incident debriefings, including daily wellness checks, for involved personnel.

The MNPD’s Homicide Unit is leading the investigation into the murders of the six victims. The Cold Case Unit is working with the TBI in the investigation of the fatal police shooting of Hale.

Covenant Investigation Update

The ongoing investigation into the March 27 murders of six persons inside The Covenant School continues to show, from all information currently available,...

www.nashville.gov

 

[whatsupp]

BREAKING NEWS: Nashville school shooter studied other mass murderers

Audrey Hale, 28, had detailed writings plotting her sick attack months before she butchered three kids and three adults at The Covenant School last week.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Nashville school shooter had planned the massacre for months in advanced and studied other mass murderers before killing six people, police have said.

 

[YepperBepper]

The ongoing investigation into the March 27 murders of six persons inside The Covenant School continues to show, from all information currently available, that killer Audrey Hale acted totally alone. In the collective writings by Hale found in her vehicle in the school parking lot, and others later found in the bedroom of her home, she documented, in journals, her planning over a period of months to commit mass murder at The Covenant School.

The writings remain under careful review by the MNPD and the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit based in Quantico, Virginia. The motive for Hale’s actions has not been established and remains under investigation by the Homicide Unit in consultation with the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit. It is known that Hale considered the actions of other mass murderers.

The investigation shows that Hale fired a total of 152 rounds (126 5.56 rifle rounds and 26 nine millimeter rounds) from the time she shot her way into the school until she was killed by police. Two officers fired on Hale. Officer Rex Engelbert discharged a total of four 5.56 rounds from his rifle; Officer Michael Collazo discharged a total of four rounds from his department-issued nine millimeter pistol.

Scores of police personnel from a number of components responded to the Covenant call last Monday. The department’s Professional Wellness Section is conducting critical incident debriefings, including daily wellness checks, for involved personnel.

The MNPD’s Homicide Unit is leading the investigation into the murders of the six victims. The Cold Case Unit is working with the TBI in the investigation of the fatal police shooting of Hale.

Covenant Investigation Update

The ongoing investigation into the March 27 murders of six persons inside The Covenant School continues to show, from all information currently available,...

www.nashville.gov

Thanks for the link.

I'm quite surprised by the number of rounds fired by Hale and the fact she used the 9 mil. I'll be interested to see if the handgun was the weapon of choice for direct shots.

I now see why this was described by LE as indiscriminate shooting event. The call came in at 10:13. Hale was dead by 10:24. It seems pretty clear that however the staff hid these children, they did an epic job. I'd love to know how angry Hale was when it was clear that there were no other humans to slaughter and LE was already outside, preventing the next stop in the plan.

Once again ...this school staff is commendable. Truly. Imho

 

[imstilla.grandma]

As students across Nashville walked out of class Monday to protest gun violence at the Tennessee Capitol following a school shooting last week, police said the person who killed six people, including three 9-year-old children, had been planning the massacre for months.

Police have not established a motive for the shootings at The Covenant School, a small Christian elementary school where the 28-year-old shooter was once a student, according to a Monday news release from the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department. Both Nashville police and FBI agents continue to review writings left behind by Audrey Hale, both in Hale's vehicle and home, police said.

"It is known that Hale considered the actions of other mass murderers," police said.

Outside the state Capitol on Monday, thousands rallied in a call for gun reform, many of them students from Nashville-area schools who walked out of their classes en masse.

The crowd echoed chants such as "thoughts and prayers are not enough" and sang along to songs like "All You Need is Love" – adding to it, "and action!" At one point, they sat for a moment of silence, raising posters above their heads that read, "Thoughts and prayers are useless to dead children," "Book bags not body bags," and "2nd graders over 2nd amendment." Some students wore orange shooting-target stickers on their shirts.

Nashville police: School shooter planned attack for months

As students across Nashville walked out of class on Monday to protest gun violence at the Tennessee Capitol following a school shooting last week, police said the person who killed six people, including three 9-year-old children, had been planning the massacre for months.

www.stripes.com

 

[MyBelle]

The ongoing investigation into the March 27 murders of six persons inside The Covenant School continues to show, from all information currently available, that killer Audrey Hale acted totally alone. In the collective writings by Hale found in her vehicle in the school parking lot, and others later found in the bedroom of her home, she documented, in journals, her planning over a period of months to commit mass murder at The Covenant School.

The writings remain under careful review by the MNPD and the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit based in Quantico, Virginia. The motive for Hale’s actions has not been established and remains under investigation by the Homicide Unit in consultation with the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit. It is known that Hale considered the actions of other mass murderers.

The investigation shows that Hale fired a total of 152 rounds (126 5.56 rifle rounds and 26 nine millimeter rounds) from the time she shot her way into the school until she was killed by police. Two officers fired on Hale. Officer Rex Engelbert discharged a total of four 5.56 rounds from his rifle; Officer Michael Collazo discharged a total of four rounds from his department-issued nine millimeter pistol.

Scores of police personnel from a number of components responded to the Covenant call last Monday. The department’s Professional Wellness Section is conducting critical incident debriefings, including daily wellness checks, for involved personnel.

The MNPD’s Homicide Unit is leading the investigation into the murders of the six victims. The Cold Case Unit is working with the TBI in the investigation of the fatal police shooting of Hale.

Covenant Investigation Update

The ongoing investigation into the March 27 murders of six persons inside The Covenant School continues to show, from all information currently available,...

www.nashville.gov

BBM. I've wondered if she studied other mass shootings because she pulled the fire alarm. I think her purpose was to summon police. If she had wanted to shoot more students, there already was a large group outside and she drove right past them. I also wonder why schools are more concerned about fires than they are about the safety of their students and staff. Maybe fire alarm devices should be within reach of principals and doors be equipped with bulletproof glass.