Toronto, Tunnel found near sporting venue

[KEVINinTO]

Revelation of mystery bunker leaves too much unsaid: DiManno

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news...ry-tunnel-leaves-too-much-unsaid-dimanno.html

-------------------------------

So it was discovered 43 days ago...???

This article raises some very interesting questions. Why did Toronto Police try to keep this secret? Why didn't they stake out the tunnel in an attempt to discover who was behind it? Instead they just retrieved some evidence and back-filled it.

It doesn't inspire much confidence in our police force (not that I had any to begin with).

Given the proximity of the tunnel to a Pan-Am games venue that will be filled with 10,000's of spectators this summer I can only imagine that this was the beginning of a terrorist plot. No other explanation makes any sense. And our police just want to sweep this under the carpet? Unbelievable!

 

[Minou]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/1...-found-by-police-in-abandoned-pickering-home/

Remember this case? I have a feeling that this may end up a similar story. Yikes...

This is exactly what I just came here to post.

:gasp:

 

[jillybean51]

......doomsday prepper? Ex-military?(poppy)

 

[KEVINinTO]

......doomsday prepper? Ex-military?(poppy)

I don't think so. IMO this was almost certainly part of a terrorist plot. The bunker was constructed inside what will be the security perimeter for the Pan-Am games. I suspect that the bunker was constructed so that terrorists could secrete weapons (bombs and automatic rifles) inside the secure perimeter long before it is established. This would enable a small militia of terrorists to easily get past security during the games and stage a massive attack on spectators. Logically if terrorists want to stage an attack on a secure venue this is the only way that they can accomplish their goals since they are not going to get past security on the day of the attack with automatic weapons and bombs. It reminds me of the Westgate Mall massacre in Kenya. In the weeks prior to the attack the terrorists used a store under construction to secrete weapons.

 

[tarabull]

Survivorman talks about the Toronto tunnel

[video]http://globalnews.ca/video/1848725/survivorman-talks-about-the-toronto-tunnel[/video]

 

[DueSouth]

The location "would have been an eyesore" to police.

With the consideration that threat assessments are done months in advance of an important event, why did it not become an "eyesore" earlier, then?

I respect the police, for the most part, but this sounds counter-intuitive.

 

[dotr]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...ut-the-deep-hole-discovered-north-of-toronto/

"Police have no idea who dug an almost two-metre high and 70 centimetre-wide tunnel in the woods north of Toronto, near York University and a Pan Am Games venue.

The initial discovery was made six weeks ago, but since there was no obvious threat to the public, police said they didn’t alert the media until the hole was dug up by the CBC on Monday.
Related

‘There is no criminal offence for digging a hole': Police won’t speculate on mystery tunnel near Pan Am site

But who could have possibly spent so long hand-digging a tunnel to nowhere, and why? "

 

[dotr]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/24/americas/toronto-mystery-tunnel/


"Authorities are seeking information from the public about any suspicious activity in the area.

The tunnel was equipped with electricity supplied by a generator, a sump pump to remove water and a pulley system to remove dirt, Saunders said. It likely took more than one person to dig it out by hand. Ice that formed at the end of a hose attached to the sump pump indicates that the tunnel may have been used this winter.

"This was built with a considerable amount of sophistication," Saunders said. "The individuals responsible for building it clearly had some expertise in structural integrity."

Police also found a gas can, food and beverage containers, work gloves, a wheel barrow and moisture-resistant light bulbs in the tunnel, which has been filled in. Its entrance was concealed by dirt over a wood lid.

"We don't know whether someone is building one somewhere else," Saunders said. "I'm open to anything right now."

The Pan American Games, which take place from July 10 to July 26, involve nearly 7,000 athletes from Latin America, South America, the Caribbean and North America."

 

[Nova]

Just kidding. My pathetic little joke was based on the evidence in the article of the rosary, Remembrance Day poppy, and proximity to York U.

Well, at least you know your posts are being read! Don't be too hard on yourself: if I had read the entire article, I probably would have gotten the joke.

Sorry.

 

[Steely Dan]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/1...-found-by-police-in-abandoned-pickering-home/

Remember this case? I have a feeling that this may end up a similar story. Yikes.

Of course we can't eliminate terrorism, due to the times we live in, proximity to a Pan Am site, etc.

This is weird, whatever it is. This would have taken time, money (unless the equipment was stolen), and a lot of energy, as this was apparently all hand built.

I can't fathom why someone would build something like this, and in that location.

I hadn't considered a confinement space. I put that very low on the scale of what this could be, JMO.

Someone dug this by hand and removed the soil. That's a whole lot of soil. Also, someone brought in wood and used tools to buttress the entire tunnel. So then why? The effort is monumental.

View attachment 70009
http://t.co/wzhraAcH5s

Wooden rosary and Remembrance Day poppy found in tunnel

BBM

IMO, this had to be a team of people. Whoever did this knows their engineering. The way it's buttressed with wooden railroad tie type things isn't a one man job. I'd imagine that moving those pieces would require at the very least two men.

I'm also intrigued by how they got the dirt out. You'd have to use a dump truck or make a lot of trips with a pickup truck. Nobody noticed this? The lights were probably for night work too.

I wonder why that expensive equipment was left lying around there. Even if it was stolen, leaving it lying about makes no sense.

The bright red jerrycan caught the Conservation Officer's attention, according to a news report I saw.

It gave material for the police to trace. There could be prints/DNA on it. It could be reused later.

Also, what road nearby could a vehicle be parked on to bring all this stuff in. It must have been a logistical nightmare, especially for someone (or several people) trying to be sneaky and not get caught.

BBM

IMO, they weren't finished yet. They may have been waiting til the weather eased up a little.

This article raises some very interesting questions. Why did Toronto Police try to keep this secret? Why didn't they stake out the tunnel in an attempt to discover who was behind it? Instead they just retrieved some evidence and back-filled it.

It doesn't inspire much confidence in our police force (not that I had any to begin with).

Given the proximity of the tunnel to a Pan-Am games venue that will be filled with 10,000's of spectators this summer I can only imagine that this was the beginning of a terrorist plot. No other explanation makes any sense. And our police just want to sweep this under the carpet? Unbelievable!

BBM

I totally agree with the police just back filling it in and not setting up a camera to catch any activity.

I totally agree with terrorist plot as well. Someone above mentioned making it a storage facility for weapons and explosives. That's shrewd thinking. Depending on how close to the stadium it is, I also think the idea of loading it with explosives and detonating it during the games would be a possibility too.

All JMO

 

[JanetElaine]

respectfully snipped

But who could have possibly spent so long hand-digging a tunnel to nowhere, and why? "

Test run?

 

[tarabull]

I was under the impression they left the dirt there - in a pile, there's a pic on the left, third pic down - at this link http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/no-evi...s-criminal-threat-police-chief-says-1.2252945

FWIW, also at the link...

...Police found several items inside the bunker, including a gas-powered generator, tools, a gas can, food and drink containers, work gloves, a sump pump and a wheel barrow.

...Police also found a pulley system, which they believe was used to carry dirt from the tunnel up to the surface during construction.

 

[katydid23]

The San Diego police have found many tunnels similar to this, used by the cartel to move drugs and illegals into California from Mexico. As a matter of fact, they found so many of them criss crossing the border area, they are debating filling any future tunnels they find, because they worry the land will be unstable because of so many underground tunnels they have closed off.

http://www.newsweek.com/two-drug-tunnels-rail-systems-found-us-mexico-border-244319

Two Drug Tunnels, with Rail Systems, Found at U.S.-Mexico Border
BY REUTERS 4/4/14 AT 1:57 PM

(Reuters) - U.S. federal agents have uncovered two drug-smuggling tunnels underneath the U.S.-Mexico border, both surfacing in San Diego-area warehouses and equipped with rail systems for moving contraband, officials said on Friday.

The discovery led to the arrest of a 73-year-old woman accused of running one of the warehouses connected to a drug smuggling operation, according to a joint news release by four federal agencies.

The tunnels were discovered as part of a five-month investigation by the so-called San Diego Tunnel Task Force.


The two tunnels are the sixth and seventh cross-border passageways discovered in the San Diego area in less than four years, according to the task force.

Since 2006, federal authorities have detected at least 80 cross-border smuggling tunnels, most of them in California and Arizona, and seized some 100 tons of narcotics associated with them.

 

[Steely Dan]

I was under the impression they left the dirt there - in a pile, there's a pic on the left, third pic down - at this link http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/no-evi...s-criminal-threat-police-chief-says-1.2252945

FWIW, also at the link...

I love the title of that article:

'No evidence' Toronto bunker poses criminal threat, police chief says

Well now that it's been filled in no, but to anyone with common sense it IS the sign of criminal activity. JMO

 

[katydid23]

So obviously, the Toronto tunnel is not for the same purpose. But wondered if they learned the technology and know-how from the cartel.

I am leaning towards terrorism as well. They could jump out of there armed and popping off, and take down many victims.

 

[tarabull]

Fourteen charged in Mexican drug cartel probe with tentacles in Peel
September 24, 2014

http://www.insidehalton.com/news-st...can-drug-cartel-probe-with-tentacles-in-peel/

 

[dotr]

Excellent video and pics. Snippets..
Rbbm.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...sons-someone-might-build-a-tunnel-to-nowhere/

"Toronto mystery hole: Six possible reasons someone might build a tunnel to nowhere"


"1. A terror hideout"
"Ron Wretham, a 32-year Toronto police veteran, can’t get over the tunnel’s proximity to a Pan-Am Games venue."

"2. Students from York’s Lassonde School of Engineering

Former Toronto detective Jim Downs said the first place he would look is York’s Lassonde School of Engineering"


"3. A treasure hunt

It’s unlikely that the burrowers were looking for an artifact of any major value, York University archivist Suzanne Dubeau said Wednesday".

"4. An old miner

The tunnel appears to have been constructed in the “cap and leg” method — an outdated way of digging short tunnels by hand that only “an experienced older guy” would use, engineer Gary Benner told the Post on Tuesday."


"5. A predator’s lair
Mr. Downs dismissed the theory that a violent criminal would have constructed the chamber as a place to bring victims, questioning why someone would go to the trouble when there’s “much simpler ways” to access a secluded place. “That’s a stretch,” he said of the theory. “It’s just a lot of work for some nutcase.”

"6. A hermit
A rosary found nailed to the tunnel wall with a Remembrance Day poppy affixed to it added a religious element to the mystery. “If you notice the symbolism, it’s ‘God and Country,'” said David Reed, a University of Toronto professor emeritus specializing in cults and new religious movements"

 

[DueSouth]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...sons-someone-might-build-a-tunnel-to-nowhere/

I think that what is understated in all of this is the shape of this creation.

It is shaped like a "cross" (!), a reference that has been mentioned in a couple of media outlets. I saw a sketch of the outline of the "tunnel", in the Star (haven't found it online); and what is meant by cross, is a tunnel or passageway portion, followed by a "hub" or open space, roughly oval in shape toward the end.

This appears to suggest that the tunneling or burrowing portion of their work was done, and they just had to build the interior to their purpose, whatever that was. I do think that it wasn't mean as a "tunnel", as a passageway to from Point A to B, but a bunker or underground chamber, where a long passage would end at some sort of central point that could be used as a meeting or storage space.

Edit. I could look at the sketch in my own attachment more carefully, lol. It does show the "hub" at the end.

 

[DueSouth]

[duplicate post

 

[katydid23]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...sons-someone-might-build-a-tunnel-to-nowhere/

I think that what is understated in all of this is the shape of this creation.

It is shaped like a "cross" (!), a reference that has been mentioned in a couple of media outlets. I saw a sketch of the outline of the "tunnel", in the Star (haven't found it online); and what is meant by cross, is a tunnel or passageway portion, followed by a "hub" or open space, roughly oval in shape toward the end.

This appears to suggest that the tunneling or burrowing portion of their work was done, and they just had to build the interior to their purpose, whatever that was. I do think that it wasn't mean as a "tunnel", as a passageway to from Point A to B, but a bunker or underground chamber, where a long passage would end at some sort of central point that could be used as a meeting or storage space.

Edit. I could look at the sketch in my own attachment more carefully, lol. It does show the "hub" at the end.

That is an important distinction---between a tunnel and an underground bunker. One is for 'travel' and sneaking across borders and bringing in contraband. The other sounds more like terrorism, imo.