trial day 32: the defense continues its case in chief #93

[JayB12]

Möbius
I'm glad you asked about the toblerone! I didn't know what they were saying about it till you asked.

I refer to it as some a little different.

Using numbers to represent the letters of our alphabet (1-26), I substitute 7 for 20 and 2 for 18.

:great:

 

[Snoopy1]

good morning all :seeya:

I miss a lot of yesterday as I had an emergency dental appointment and ended up leaving work for the day at about 11 CST. I had full intentions of watching the trial when I got home. Had my laptop on WS and tv on HLN. I took my meds and uh......... yea, I feel asleep for about 5 and a half hours. :thud:

Needless to say, I missed JM's cross of Dr. Samuels, apparently it was a good one. Whats going on this morning? Who's up first? Is the Doc still on the stand?

Going back to catch up. Thanks for keeping the threads updated!! Much appreciated.

 

[JayB12]

Yup - with her shirt unbuttoned far too low. ICK.

Ahhh. You just cleared that up for me. I kept reading posts about the mitigation person and not being dressed appropriately for court. All along, I was thinking Wilmott.

Thanks

 

[kaki]

Doc Samuels should re-think even that. It simply would not have made any difference as he would have gotten no truth from her no matter how many times he gave her the test. Perhaps the Doc should have given her a book that explains why lying is one's worst enemy and advised Nurmi and Wilmott to obtain an exorcist for assistance.

Are any of these tests valid on psychopaths/sociopaths? They are much different then the norm. and lie and twist the truth.

 

[josie1986]

Doc Samuels should re-think even that. It simply would not have made any difference as he would have gotten no truth from her no matter how many times he gave her the test. Perhaps the Doc should have given her a book that explains why lying is one's worst enemy and advised Nurmi and Wilmott to obtain an exorcist for assistance.

i dont even think an exorcist would have any hope with her

 

[Ricki]

First, I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere before. I don't believe one word of Samuels "expert" testimony but there is a possible explanation for his "unusual testing methodology" in the psychometric tests he "administered" to JA.

First, any reputable clinician will tell you that the validity of the test is dependent on several variables. The setting in which the test was administered, the method in which the test was administered, etc. While the validity of the test results is impacted by the answers of the person taking the test there are several vailidty scales that can be used to confirm or deny a specific diagnosis - these are generally built into each test.

"Dr" Samuels erred on many levels - that's a given. But the primary level that gives rise for concern is the methodology of the test. Answer sheets are provided with the PSD Test package, which also includes a manual, test booklet, 10 answer sheets, 10 scoring worksheets and one scoring directions form. The price of this introductory testing package is $69.00. Nowhere in the world of psychology/psychiatry/sociology have I ever seen an acceptable testing practice of "here's a legal pad, let me write these answers down for you, etc". The inherent bias in that type of testing just blows my mind. Anyhoo, there are tests designed for people who cannot read/write/etc and the testing bias is built into that particular type of test. So, why did Samuels "administer" this test in this manner? He was too freaking cheap to BUY the actual test and answer sheets who would have been retained as evidence in this trial. Instead his method gives rise to the thought that he did indeed complete answers for JA to show her in a PTSD light to assist in her latest defense strategy of "self defense". He lied. He's unethical. He failed.

The second test that he administered was a Millon assessment. For the life of me I cannot recall which test he stated he administered... If someone will refresh my memory I can then rip him to shred on that fiasco. Anyway, Millon assessments are generally used for developing treatment recommendations for patients. It gives the clinician a "look inside the head of the patient" to see where they are in terms of their perception, denial, etc. This is important when beginning a treatment protocol - but we all have head that Dr Samuels was treating her, he was merely assessing her. Whatever dude! (The cost for this particular test MCMI-III would be 172.00 for the test materials.)

If Dr. Samuels wanted to accurately assess JA using the MMPI-2RF wwould have been a good starting point. At a cost of $221.50 for the testing materials it's probably way out of reach for him and if he intended to manipulate the test, he woudl fail miserably!

So, this is my 1st or 2nd post here on WS. Thanks for listening to my blabbering. I cannot stand the sight of Samuels and offer him this bit of advice, "when you're in a hole, stop digging!"

Must head to work now, have tablet and phone for the Ustream broadcast. Ya'll have a great day!

Thank you for your enlightening post. Unfortunately it seems the DR only does things for money. He stated he left doing custody cases because it did not pay off. I wonder how much he is getting paid for this. I also wonder if there will be more ethics complaints being tossed at him.

 

[josie1986]

good morning all :seeya:

I miss a lot of yesterday as I had an emergency dental appointment and ended up leaving work for the day at about 11 CST. I had full intentions of watching the trial when I got home. Had my laptop on WS and tv on HLN. I took my meds and uh......... yea, I feel asleep for about 5 and a half hours. :thud:

Needless to say, I missed JM's cross of Dr. Samuels, apparently it was a good one. Whats going on this morning? Who's up first? Is the Doc still on the stand?

Going back to catch up. Thanks for keeping the threads updated!! Much appreciated.

buckle up cause it was one heck of a ride!!

 

[josie1986]

First, I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere before. I don't believe one word of Samuels "expert" testimony but there is a possible explanation for his "unusual testing methodology" in the psychometric tests he "administered" to JA.

First, any reputable clinician will tell you that the validity of the test is dependent on several variables. The setting in which the test was administered, the method in which the test was administered, etc. While the validity of the test results is impacted by the answers of the person taking the test there are several vailidty scales that can be used to confirm or deny a specific diagnosis - these are generally built into each test.

"Dr" Samuels erred on many levels - that's a given. But the primary level that gives rise for concern is the methodology of the test. Answer sheets are provided with the PSD Test package, which also includes a manual, test booklet, 10 answer sheets, 10 scoring worksheets and one scoring directions form. The price of this introductory testing package is $69.00. Nowhere in the world of psychology/psychiatry/sociology have I ever seen an acceptable testing practice of "here's a legal pad, let me write these answers down for you, etc". The inherent bias in that type of testing just blows my mind. Anyhoo, there are tests designed for people who cannot read/write/etc and the testing bias is built into that particular type of test. So, why did Samuels "administer" this test in this manner? He was too freaking cheap to BUY the actual test and answer sheets who would have been retained as evidence in this trial. Instead his method gives rise to the thought that he did indeed complete answers for JA to show her in a PTSD light to assist in her latest defense strategy of "self defense". He lied. He's unethical. He failed.

The second test that he administered was a Millon assessment. For the life of me I cannot recall which test he stated he administered... If someone will refresh my memory I can then rip him to shred on that fiasco. Anyway, Millon assessments are generally used for developing treatment recommendations for patients. It gives the clinician a "look inside the head of the patient" to see where they are in terms of their perception, denial, etc. This is important when beginning a treatment protocol - but we all have head that Dr Samuels was treating her, he was merely assessing her. Whatever dude! (The cost for this particular test MCMI-III would be 172.00 for the test materials.)

If Dr. Samuels wanted to accurately assess JA using the MMPI-2RF wwould have been a good starting point. At a cost of $221.50 for the testing materials it's probably way out of reach for him and if he intended to manipulate the test, he woudl fail miserably!

So, this is my 1st or 2nd post here on WS. Thanks for listening to my blabbering. I cannot stand the sight of Samuels and offer him this bit of advice, "when you're in a hole, stop digging!"

Must head to work now, have tablet and phone for the Ustream broadcast. Ya'll have a great day!

:welcome: :seeya:

 

[scorpio24]

First, I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere before. I don't believe one word of Samuels "expert" testimony but there is a possible explanation for his "unusual testing methodology" in the psychometric tests he "administered" to JA.

First, any reputable clinician will tell you that the validity of the test is dependent on several variables. The setting in which the test was administered, the method in which the test was administered, etc. While the validity of the test results is impacted by the answers of the person taking the test there are several vailidty scales that can be used to confirm or deny a specific diagnosis - these are generally built into each test.

"Dr" Samuels erred on many levels - that's a given. But the primary level that gives rise for concern is the methodology of the test. Answer sheets are provided with the PSD Test package, which also includes a manual, test booklet, 10 answer sheets, 10 scoring worksheets and one scoring directions form. The price of this introductory testing package is $69.00. Nowhere in the world of psychology/psychiatry/sociology have I ever seen an acceptable testing practice of "here's a legal pad, let me write these answers down for you, etc". The inherent bias in that type of testing just blows my mind. Anyhoo, there are tests designed for people who cannot read/write/etc and the testing bias is built into that particular type of test. So, why did Samuels "administer" this test in this manner? He was too freaking cheap to BUY the actual test and answer sheets who would have been retained as evidence in this trial. Instead his method gives rise to the thought that he did indeed complete answers for JA to show her in a PTSD light to assist in her latest defense strategy of "self defense". He lied. He's unethical. He failed.

The second test that he administered was a Millon assessment. For the life of me I cannot recall which test he stated he administered... If someone will refresh my memory I can then rip him to shred on that fiasco. Anyway, Millon assessments are generally used for developing treatment recommendations for patients. It gives the clinician a "look inside the head of the patient" to see where they are in terms of their perception, denial, etc. This is important when beginning a treatment protocol - but we all have head that Dr Samuels was treating her, he was merely assessing her. Whatever dude! (The cost for this particular test MCMI-III would be 172.00 for the test materials.)

If Dr. Samuels wanted to accurately assess JA using the MMPI-2RF wwould have been a good starting point. At a cost of $221.50 for the testing materials it's probably way out of reach for him and if he intended to manipulate the test, he woudl fail miserably!

So, this is my 1st or 2nd post here on WS. Thanks for listening to my blabbering. I cannot stand the sight of Samuels and offer him this bit of advice, "when you're in a hole, stop digging!"

Must head to work now, have tablet and phone for the Ustream broadcast. Ya'll have a great day!

WOW!!! :great: Post more! We need your insights. (At least, I need your insights!) lease:

Thanks so much for this post. I really was wondering if it was common practice. I mean, I know I always had to fill in my bubbles all by myself. And JA has a ready supply of those little golf pencils. Why wouldn't he bring the answer sheet? And, worse yet, why didn't he turn a copy over to the prosecution? Quick answer: there never WAS one. He scored it from the legal pad. I agree.

Although he'll have one in tow today. I guarantee it. Hope he can remember all her "answers." Juan took his cheat sheet. :twocents:

 

[raisincharlie]

Are any of these tests valid on psychopaths/sociopaths? They are much different then the norm. and lie and twist the truth.

kaki -

I really don't know honestly. Hopefully someone that understands all this head doctor stuff will give you an answer. Any answer I could provide would be biased as I personally think head docs are basically quacks to begin with.

 

[Ricki]

good morning all :seeya:

I miss a lot of yesterday as I had an emergency dental appointment and ended up leaving work for the day at about 11 CST. I had full intentions of watching the trial when I got home. Had my laptop on WS and tv on HLN. I took my meds and uh......... yea, I feel asleep for about 5 and a half hours. :thud:

Needless to say, I missed JM's cross of Dr. Samuels, apparently it was a good one. Whats going on this morning? Who's up first? Is the Doc still on the stand?

Going back to catch up. Thanks for keeping the threads updated!! Much appreciated.

I believe Samuels will be back on with JM going at him. Someone said in the other thread there are juror questions in the box also. So, Samuels should be on for a good part of the day I would imagine. It is certainly worth the watch and the later part of yesterday was pure perfection.

 

[Nali87]

good morning all :seeya:

I miss a lot of yesterday as I had an emergency dental appointment and ended up leaving work for the day at about 11 CST. I had full intentions of watching the trial when I got home. Had my laptop on WS and tv on HLN. I took my meds and uh......... yea, I feel asleep for about 5 and a half hours. :thud:

Needless to say, I missed JM's cross of Dr. Samuels, apparently it was a good one. Whats going on this morning? Who's up first? Is the Doc still on the stand?

Going back to catch up. Thanks for keeping the threads updated!! Much appreciated.

Dr Samuels is still on the stand and JM will continue cross examining him today!

 

[Linda From New York]

First, I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere before. I don't believe one word of Samuels "expert" testimony but there is a possible explanation for his "unusual testing methodology" in the psychometric tests he "administered" to JA.

First, any reputable clinician will tell you that the validity of the test is dependent on several variables. The setting in which the test was administered, the method in which the test was administered, etc. While the validity of the test results is impacted by the answers of the person taking the test there are several vailidty scales that can be used to confirm or deny a specific diagnosis - these are generally built into each test.

"Dr" Samuels erred on many levels - that's a given. But the primary level that gives rise for concern is the methodology of the test. Answer sheets are provided with the PSD Test package, which also includes a manual, test booklet, 10 answer sheets, 10 scoring worksheets and one scoring directions form. The price of this introductory testing package is $69.00. Nowhere in the world of psychology/psychiatry/sociology have I ever seen an acceptable testing practice of "here's a legal pad, let me write these answers down for you, etc". The inherent bias in that type of testing just blows my mind. Anyhoo, there are tests designed for people who cannot read/write/etc and the testing bias is built into that particular type of test. So, why did Samuels "administer" this test in this manner? He was too freaking cheap to BUY the actual test and answer sheets who would have been retained as evidence in this trial. Instead his method gives rise to the thought that he did indeed complete answers for JA to show her in a PTSD light to assist in her latest defense strategy of "self defense". He lied. He's unethical. He failed.

The second test that he administered was a Millon assessment. For the life of me I cannot recall which test he stated he administered... If someone will refresh my memory I can then rip him to shred on that fiasco. Anyway, Millon assessments are generally used for developing treatment recommendations for patients. It gives the clinician a "look inside the head of the patient" to see where they are in terms of their perception, denial, etc. This is important when beginning a treatment protocol - but we all have head that Dr Samuels was treating her, he was merely assessing her. Whatever dude! (The cost for this particular test MCMI-III would be 172.00 for the test materials.)

If Dr. Samuels wanted to accurately assess JA using the MMPI-2RF wwould have been a good starting point. At a cost of $221.50 for the testing materials it's probably way out of reach for him and if he intended to manipulate the test, he woudl fail miserably!

So, this is my 1st or 2nd post here on WS. Thanks for listening to my blabbering. I cannot stand the sight of Samuels and offer him this bit of advice, "when you're in a hole, stop digging!"

Must head to work now, have tablet and phone for the Ustream broadcast. Ya'll have a great day!

Thanks for the insight!

----------

And what good is any testing if the person taking the tests is a liar, ya know?

How do you accurately test a liar? A liar who murdered somebody?

 

[JayB12]

Maybe it takes that long to choke someone out by strangling them, but if it was a ju-jitsu (mma/ufc) rear-naked choke, you can be out in seconds. Travis was a UFC fan, so it is conceivable that he would know how to apply this by watching. However, IIRC she did describe it as a strangling choke, though. This is how quick you can go out, if done properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upRq92d3u2M

You bring up a great point. Watching combat sports, especially the UFC in this day and age (2008 included), fans can actually pick up moves as they become more interested/involved. That doesn't necessarily mean every fan can apply a RNC or triangle correctly. However, they would understand basic positioning.

As a fan of the UFC back to its origin with Gracie, Shamrock, etc., I recall being able to perform most BJJ maneuvers in my first few mma classes solely based on my understanding of the sport.

 

[scorpio24]

Did anyone notice if we saw all the answers on the yellow legal pad paper? I'm thinking not and I'm realizing WHY JM immediately took it and put it into evidence: he snatched away the good Dr.'s crib notes! If JM thinks there is no real answer sheet, that he scored this strictly from the legal pad, Dr. Samuels had a hard time last night entering all the right answers without his "transfer materials."

Oh, goodness! JM is light years ahead of these people! :rocker:

 

[SallyLu]

First, I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere before. I don't believe one word of Samuels "expert" testimony but there is a possible explanation for his "unusual testing methodology" in the psychometric tests he "administered" to JA.

First, any reputable clinician will tell you that the validity of the test is dependent on several variables. The setting in which the test was administered, the method in which the test was administered, etc. While the validity of the test results is impacted by the answers of the person taking the test there are several vailidty scales that can be used to confirm or deny a specific diagnosis - these are generally built into each test.

"Dr" Samuels erred on many levels - that's a given. But the primary level that gives rise for concern is the methodology of the test. Answer sheets are provided with the PSD Test package, which also includes a manual, test booklet, 10 answer sheets, 10 scoring worksheets and one scoring directions form. The price of this introductory testing package is $69.00. Nowhere in the world of psychology/psychiatry/sociology have I ever seen an acceptable testing practice of "here's a legal pad, let me write these answers down for you, etc". The inherent bias in that type of testing just blows my mind. Anyhoo, there are tests designed for people who cannot read/write/etc and the testing bias is built into that particular type of test. So, why did Samuels "administer" this test in this manner? He was too freaking cheap to BUY the actual test and answer sheets who would have been retained as evidence in this trial. Instead his method gives rise to the thought that he did indeed complete answers for JA to show her in a PTSD light to assist in her latest defense strategy of "self defense". He lied. He's unethical. He failed.

The second test that he administered was a Millon assessment. For the life of me I cannot recall which test he stated he administered... If someone will refresh my memory I can then rip him to shred on that fiasco. Anyway, Millon assessments are generally used for developing treatment recommendations for patients. It gives the clinician a "look inside the head of the patient" to see where they are in terms of their perception, denial, etc. This is important when beginning a treatment protocol - but we all have head that Dr Samuels was treating her, he was merely assessing her. Whatever dude! (The cost for this particular test MCMI-III would be 172.00 for the test materials.)

If Dr. Samuels wanted to accurately assess JA using the MMPI-2RF wwould have been a good starting point. At a cost of $221.50 for the testing materials it's probably way out of reach for him and if he intended to manipulate the test, he woudl fail miserably!

So, this is my 1st or 2nd post here on WS. Thanks for listening to my blabbering. I cannot stand the sight of Samuels and offer him this bit of advice, "when you're in a hole, stop digging!"

Must head to work now, have tablet and phone for the Ustream broadcast. Ya'll have a great day!

Wow just wow. Thank you for giving us this great information.

btw - misread your name as "scrubagranny" LOL

 

[SallyLu]

Did anyone notice if we saw all the answers on the yellow legal pad paper? I'm thinking not and I'm realizing WHY JM immediately took it and put it into evidence: he snatched away the good Dr.'s crib notes! If JM thinks there is no real answer sheet, that he scored this strictly from the legal pad, Dr. Samuels had a hard time last night entering all the right answers without his "transfer materials."

Oh, goodness! JM is light years ahead of these people! :rocker:

Yes, I caught that. Brilliant JM!

 

[scubagrannie]

Are any of these tests valid on psychopaths/sociopaths? They are much different then the norm. and lie and twist the truth.

The MMPI-2 and the MCMI-III are both useful to identify psychopathic and sociopathic behaviors.

 

[rose222]

So how will the defense spin this now? That no matter which box JA ticked (most traumatic event or whatever) that the end result = PSTD? That she was in denial and chose the box that was closest to the truth? Some carp like that? Not interested!

By the way I love the way JM 'dances' during questioning. Great video. Thanks to the one who shared!

 

[scorpio24]

Yes, I caught that. Brilliant JM!

It took me a while! LOL! Don't you know Dr. Samuels was sweating it last night trying to figure out what he answered the first time to give her PTSD? My husband said it best: "Nothing good ever comes from lying." I added "To Juan Martinez." :floorlaugh: