trial day 33: the defense continues its case in chief #96

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  • #841
He also, at one point mentioned that Jodi remembered putting her finger on the trigger (not his exact words) but on the stand JA said she didn't remember touching the trigger, the "gun just went off".

YES. LOL

And he also made sure to remember that she absolutely told him that she did not think the gun was loaded, but she was just trying to get him to stop.

OOPS, I guess she forgot to tell the Doc about how TA loaded it and took it somewhere once. :giggle:
 
  • #842
I did watch some of it yesterday to a point. But when I reached that point, I tuned out.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, it all sounds like JUNK PSYCHOLOGY to me.

Why isn't a liar just a liar?

All that has been talked about between Arias, the doctor and her defense team is:

Supposed low self esteem
Getting called out and "hit" by her parents, if that is true. (and on a side note, being born in 1962 I was "hit" by my parents-so what)
Everyday ho-hum boyfriend-girlfriend problems
Can't stand up for herself in an argument
Blah, Blah
Being used by a guy for sex (happens all the time)

How many people have these problems and DO NOT kill someone? WHY is it an "excuse" for HER to "explain" why she murdered someone.

It's a bunch of BS.

Love love love it, Linda. Great post. That is it in a nutshell. I turned the trial off early last night. This quack droning on and on about low esteem ....non assertiveness..."blah blah blah. Wasn't worth the time into DH and my game show competition ..haha

Anyway....iMO he is testifying to show why she can't remember the stabbing and putting poor Travis in the shower stall. She remembers EVERYTHING.

Oh, and I suppose he is providing a reaction to kill instead of run when her PTSD pops up....?

If that is the case...it's obvious she must remain behind bars forever. I wouldn't want to run into her and get into a fender bender....she would I assume kill me before I Could kill her ?FFS
 
  • #843
...coming out of lurk mode because I just had a thought about the sequence of the attack...

I really don't understand why the defense would even try to say the gunshot came first. I think proves a more calculated premeditation than if it came last. I think the ME was very credible, and what he said about the head injury made a lot of sense. The gunshot at a minimum would incapacitate TA in some way. A subsequent attack with a knife then becomes much easier for ja to accomplish. It would also make it much easier to flee (wet naked man with a hole in his head is not going to catch her). It makes it look like killing him was the plan all along.

Conversely the stabbing first, butchering, followed by a final gunshot makes it look like a more out of control and possibly rage induced episode of sudden violence. The gunshot at the end could be seen as either a) putting him out of his misery or b) after realizing the gravity of what she has done she makes sure he's dead to "clean up". Either way it's 1st degree murder, but I think the defense position of "shot first" makes her more of a candidate for the the death penalty rather than less. A better story would be struggling for the knife (both of them have cuts on their hands). She manages to get the knife and keeps blindly stabbing at him out of fear and/or rage. Hope I'm making sense here...

Welcome and good post! I think the primary reason they have to go with shot first is because Jodi refuses to give up ANYTHING about the knife attack. So, if she refuses to talk about it, there is no way they can present a self-defense scenario of knife first, because, obviously, she would have to explain how it went down.
Another note on the knife attack, even in her Ninja story, Jodi never included the knife. I think that experience was deeply personal and pleasurable to her. She can't bring herself to share it even if it could save her life.
 
  • #844
Lol, I know. As much as she lies, I'm really surprised she didn't come up with some better material to substantiate the abuse claims.

She should have said she stole her grandpa's gun because [1] she wanted protection on her road trip and/or [2] she was considering suicide.


She had the gun with her at TA's, in her backpack. As she was leaving, they argued and he got abusive. He picked up the knife and threatened her, and was going to tie her up, but she managed to get the gun out and shot him once, but it jammed. She had to then fight him for control of the knife.
 
  • #845
She should have said she stole her grandpa's gun because [1] she wanted protection on her road trip and/or [2] she was considering suicide.


She had the gun with her at TA's, in her backpack. As she was leaving, they argued and he got abusive. He picked up the knife and threatened her, and was going to tie her up, but she managed to get the gun out and shot him once, but it jammed. She had to then fight him for control of the knife.

You're good at this!
 
  • #846
I'm watching the end of trial yesterday now.

I notice how willnott has to remind the witness what "P" and " D" on the piece of evidence being discussed stands for before she asks him a question. My oh my.
 
  • #847
She should have said she stole her grandpa's gun because [1] she wanted protection on her road trip and/or [2] she was considering suicide.


She had the gun with her at TA's, in her backpack. As she was leaving, they argued and he got abusive. He picked up the knife and threatened her, and was going to tie her up, but she managed to get the gun out and shot him once, but it jammed. She had to then fight him for control of the knife.

She would have come up with something like that, probably dumber, but she screwed herself by leaving the camera. So we know what was happening in the minutes before the killing. If it wasn't for all this evidence she left, we can only imagine the tales she'd be telling.
 
  • #848
Your story touched me and sometimes all we need is to hear someone say they know we will make it.....KK YOU CAN DO THIS!After all you did to get away from this evil man, you can certainly find happiness. You DESERVE it!

OMG! I really wish I could just throw my arms around you right now! Don't apologise at all for this incredible heartwrenching glimpse into what a hell you've been put through. I'm soooo glad that saying it has helped you!

I know EXACTLY what you mean about being stuck with a controling lying freak that breaks you down little by little so badly not only do you not even notice it happening but finally figure out how miserable you are and have somehow become a caracature of your former self and actually make YOU feel like the one who's crazy!!!

I felt EXACTLY like you did watching that #$%&*@# Samuels, that greedy, disgusting SOB, and dispise him for the same reasons you do - this jerk is so much like my own freak I just finally got rid of he totally set my teeth on edge. He even looks kind of a bit like my freak only fatter and a bit older. He truly made me shiver with disgust because of the similarity.

Just last January I finally got rid of the most controlling A$$ that was so good at it that it wasn't until sometime around last fall that I realized he wasn't the ultra-caring "gentleman" I had thought... and Lord knows how in the world I ever thought he was... I was always so good at reading people before this devil. I was stuck with that turd for four years almost to the day. I was so unbelievably controlled I couldn't even go to the grocery store on my own... push my own cart, pick out what I wanted, pick which cashier line I wanted to use, put my groceries on the belt, bag them up or ANYTHING having to do with shopping. He totally controlled the purse strings because I couldn't work at the time because of my anxiety being so bad I had outrageous flaming panic attacks almost constantly.

It was sometime in the fall that it crashed on my head how totally HELPLESS he had made me which was NOTHING like the person I had always been. Suddenly I just couldn't recognize myself anymore and HATED the person he turned me into and all the while wondering if I was the one who was looney! One night around this time last year but a little more into spring I had to go out and get dog food because I had nothing to feed the dog, and for some reason I just could NOT walk into the store. I drove around and around in circles trying to get up the courage to even park the car in the lot much less go in and get a bag of chow for my dog, and I simply could NOT do it. It was then that I realized how totally helpless he'd made me that I couldn't do such a simple thing as that and realized I HAD to get the heck away from him.

He controlled the money so fiercely all those years acting like he was such a saint for "taking care of me" when all I wanted to do was pull myself together and go back to work and get rid of this controlling freak that he carefully only doled out EXACTLY what I needed to pay the bills. Groceries he totally controlled, if I needed a new pair of boots or a raincoat or whatever I had to wait until it was convenient for him to take me shopping for them... he decided what I should get whether I liked it or not or where I wanted to buy it, and just like with the grocery shopping totally controlled the whole shopping experience. I felt like a 10 year old trailing after Mom again unable to make a single decision for myself.

And just to be a completely EVIL jerk, every few months he'd tell me some cockamamie story that he couldn't "help" me anymore and I had a month or less to not only find a job but earn enough to pay the bills myself JUST to make me totally terrified knowing I couldn't possibly do it especially since it was the worst years since the depression for people trying to get decent jobs and KNOWING that doing that to me would totally knock me on my bum with a volcano of anxiety so bad I could barely get out of bed every day. Then just in the 11th hour he'd suddenly tell me another whopper of a lie as to why everything worked out ok with the lie story he'd concocted that time and tell me he could still "help me". It kept me in a perpetual state of high anxiety that made just doing the most basic things like having to leave the house to walk the dog or run to the store for a loaf of bread that the very thought of having to look for a job terrified me so much that I could barely manage to take a shower every day or do laundry or dishes or ANYTHING anymore especially knowing that the two to four weeks he gave me every time he pulled this stunt on me made it clear I couldn't possibly accomplish it even if I wasn't an emotional wreck.

So I started hoarding money I was supposed to be spending on things like a dental appointment or a vet appointment or my phone broke and I needed a new one and either didn't do it and kept the money or lied about how much it cost so I could hoard away a little bit of money for when I could get rid of him. I also went to see a shrink that God BLESS him put me on anti-anxiety meds that have done wonders. Once I was able to hoard away a few thousand dollars I enrolled in a two week bartending school to start a new career, and though I was a basket of nerves I went every day and just last week passed my exam. Everyone at the school is great, and they're helping me with a resume and have a really good job placement program. I finally remembered what it was like to interact with people again that was someone else other than HIM. I used to be such a clown and bubbly fun person, and he turned me into a terrified cave dweller too afraid to walk the dog on my own much less remember what it was like to meet new people and make new friends that I had always just loved to do.

So in February I gave him the heave-ho, have been living on the world's strictest budget and praying I can get a job in the next couple of months and I won't be so scared to go to work every day that I get that horrible anxiety and get fired or just can't do it. But just going to the bartending school those two weeks showed me that I can still leave the house, go to a town I'm not familar with, meet new people, learn as well as everyone else even though it was REALLY fast paced and REALLY hard, and get through the whole day of school every day, and just getting through that has been the best boost I needed.

For the first time in four years I finally feel like I have some bit of hope again that maybe I can get back to being the person I used to be instead of the frightened schlub he turned me into and made me think he was generous and kind and I was a terrible and ungrateful person for his making me lose myself.

What you've said about your own situation has really REALLY inspired me. If you can do it then maybe there really is hope for me, too. And you went through stuff with your husband that I can only see as so much worse than what my freak (who wasn't even someone I was DATING) did to me and for such a longer period of time.

You have nooooo idea how grateful I am that you shared your woes about your own issues because it's helped me sooooo much, and where I had only a glimpse of hope before, now I think maybe I really can do this and get ME back the way I used to be.

You are sooooo awesome! And HUGE congratulations for going two whole decades sober! That is truly something to be so proud of especially with all you have been through because of your husband.

Bless you a thousand times! Your story and your same feelings toward the wretched Samuels that so mirror my own and for much the same reason really made me feel that suddenly a little light came on in my dark tunnel, and maybe if I just stay the course I can really find my way out of it.

:tyou: :grouphug:



Damn me, I think I have some thing in my eye.
 
  • #849
You're good at this!

I know what I wouldn't say:

"Random skateboarders in the Pasadena Starbucks parking lot decided to prank me by unscrewing my back plate and turning it upside down and then decided to do the same thing with the front plate. " :liar:

" And I didn't steal my Grandpa's .25 just before I left on my trip--but Travis had one just like it, but nobody else knew about it, not even his friends or roomies or family. And he didn't have any extra ammo, only what was in the gun...err umm...wait, I mean he did load it once when he took it somewhere...and he had a holster too....no wait...no, I think I was wrong about the holster....
 
  • #850
Welcome and good post! I think the primary reason they have to go with shot first is because Jodi refuses to give up ANYTHING about the knife attack. So, if she refuses to talk about it, there is no way they can present a self-defense scenario of knife first, because, obviously, she would have to explain how it went down.
Another note on the knife attack, even in her Ninja story, Jodi never included the knife. I think that experience was deeply personal and pleasurable to her. She can't bring herself to share it even if it could save her life.

ITA it's all jodi and they're stuck with it. Thank god she can't lie that well. I used to be a 'shot last' proponent, but over time I've changed my mind. I think because she was 'trying to come up with a story that fit the forensics', the ninja story is exactly what happened (minus the actual ninjas). What better way to come up with a story that fits than to tell what actually happened (but the soddi version)? It's a story of a planned execution (along with a tortured/pleading/helpless victim). I can't think of a more death penalty worthy story.
 
  • #851
I did watch some of it yesterday to a point. But when I reached that point, I tuned out.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, it all sounds like JUNK PSYCHOLOGY to me.

Why isn't a liar just a liar?

All that has been talked about between Arias, the doctor and her defense team is:

Supposed low self esteem
Getting called out and "hit" by her parents, if that is true. (and on a side note, being born in 1962 I was "hit" by my parents-so what)
Everyday ho-hum boyfriend-girlfriend problems
Can't stand up for herself in an argument
Blah, Blah
Being used by a guy for sex (happens all the time)

How many people have these problems and DO NOT kill someone? WHY is it an "excuse" for HER to "explain" why she murdered someone.

It's a bunch of BS.

You're so right!! It is all BS! All the crap he spewed on the stand about poor Jodi, she has ptsd because she committed a murder is just ridiculous. His entire testimony is totally invalidated with two words - Jodi lied.

JM has shown she's a liar and I don't know why anyone would ever believe anything she says. All of his "results" are based on things she told him and she's a liar which equals none of it is true.
 
  • #852
The testimony is useless even it's true. Even if she has ptsd and even if she has amnesia, it doesn't prove she didn't murder Travis.
 
  • #853
ITA it's all jodi and they're stuck with it. Thank god she can't lie that well. I used to be a 'shot last' proponent, but over time I've changed my mind. I think because she was 'trying to come up with a story that fit the forensics', the ninja story is exactly what happened (minus the actual ninjas). What better way to come up with a story that fits than to tell what actually happened (but the soddi version)? It's a story of a planned execution (along with a tortured/pleading/helpless victim). I can't think of a more death penalty worthy story.

I've never believed in shot first because it's obvious to me that the entire point of the photo shoot was to maneuver him into the most vulnerable position possible and impede his ability to fight her off. If a gun is your intended method, this wouldn't be necessary.
 
  • #854
...coming out of lurk mode because I just had a thought about the sequence of the attack...

I really don't understand why the defense would even try to say the gunshot came first. I think proves a more calculated premeditation than if it came last. I think the ME was very credible, and what he said about the head injury made a lot of sense. The gunshot at a minimum would incapacitate TA in some way. A subsequent attack with a knife then becomes much easier for ja to accomplish. It would also make it much easier to flee (wet naked man with a hole in his head is not going to catch her). It makes it look like killing him was the plan all along.

Conversely the stabbing first, butchering, followed by a final gunshot makes it look like a more out of control and possibly rage induced episode of sudden violence. The gunshot at the end could be seen as either a) putting him out of his misery or b) after realizing the gravity of what she has done she makes sure he's dead to "clean up". Either way it's 1st degree murder, but I think the defense position of "shot first" makes her more of a candidate for the the death penalty rather than less. A better story would be struggling for the knife (both of them have cuts on their hands). She manages to get the knife and keeps blindly stabbing at him out of fear and/or rage. Hope I'm making sense here...

I think the State is attempting to prove the gunshot came last to show that the death was "especially heinous, atrocious and cruel," which is what makes this a death penalty case. In other words, TA suffered all the knife wounds while he was conscious or semi-conscious, then was shot.
 
  • #855
I've never believed in shot first because it's obvious to me that the entire point of the photo shoot was to maneuver him into the most vulnerable position possible and impede his ability to fight her off. If a gun is your intended method, this wouldn't be necessary.

That's what I've thought too, but I have trouble picturing it. He's on the floor of the shower, she drops the camera and starts stabbing away at him. He's holding up his hands to shield himself... he's able to exit the shower... she'd have to get lucky and get that deep stab to the heart right away for him not to be able to fight her off... It's hard for me to imagine how it went down.
 
  • #856
  • #857
I think the State is attempting to prove the gunshot came last to show that the death was "especially heinous, atrocious and cruel," which is what makes this a death penalty case. In other words, TA suffered all the knife wounds while he was conscious or semi-conscious, then was shot.

I agree, but I don't think they need to prove 'shot last' to show he was semi-concious during the knife attack (the defensive wounds absolutely prove it).
 
  • #858
That's what I've thought too, but I have trouble picturing it. He's on the floor of the shower, she drops the camera and starts stabbing away at him. He's holding up his hands to shield himself... he's able to exit the shower... she'd have to get lucky and get that deep stab to the heart right away for him not to be able to fight her off... It's hard for me to imagine how it went down.

I have trouble visualizing it too. IF he was positioned as he was in the last photo, it would seem to be an awkward angle. But maybe she repositioned him or told him to get up and pulled the knife from wherever she had put it while he's up-righting himself, then a quick stab at the chest? We could speculate endlessly, we'll never know.
 
  • #859
I have trouble choosing a side with the 'shot first' vs. 'stabbed first' debate. I see problems with both and reasons for both. But the debate will rage on forever because we will never know the truth, imo.
 
  • #860
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