Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[Mountain Misst]

This:

Roux asks witness how often she's heard gunshots. Laughter when he asks when she last heard them and she drily replies: "14th February 2013"

It'll take a bit to beat that one Kittychi... It's a classic. :floorlaugh:

 

[BritsKate]

Listening to her testimony, I do not think it is completely clear what she heard and when. One possibility is that she screamed while being shot and Oscar did not hear it - or he could be lying, but it just does not make sense that he waits for her to go to bathroom and then gets his gun and shoots through the door 4 times in the middle of the night.

I disagree. Burger was pretty emphatic that she heard Reeva screaming (it woke her); then Oscar yelling for help; followed by screams that became blood-curdling and finally four shots with a pause between the first and the remaining three.

Viewing this crime as an intimate partner homicide, it isn't hard to imagine a controlling, jealous, perhaps psychologically abusive Oscar who argued with Reeva that night. Maybe she told him they were through. I believe she sought refuge in the toilet, with her phones, and maybe tried to reach out to someone for help. I believe they were arguing through that door and perhaps she stated she was calling the police, friends, etc - and I think Oscar 'snapped' and wanted to stop her at any cost. I haven't followed this case closely but I think we're going to hear about a history of controlling and domineering behaviours with a temper to boot. I could well be wrong though.

I agree that the shooting was reckless homicide. He claims he thought an intruder came in through the bathroom window that was open. Even if that's really what he thought, his actions were not reasonable and they resulted in the death of an innocent person. I just don't see premeditation here.

I think it was premeditated, legally anyway, but in an instant...more crime of passion than malice aforethought. It will prove interesting though because OP's entire defence strategy will rest upon ripping apart what is reasonable. The argument being that what is reasonable to an able-bodied person isn't the same to someone disabled.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I watched an Sky interview with the SA National Prosecuting Authority. I could catch the guys name but it sounded something like Kobie or Cobee. It was pouring with rain and there was some distortion.

What he did say was when asked about today's proceedings is that the NPA are very pleased with the way it went. He was asked whether he was confident that he had enough evidence to get a conviction and he said he was.

He was asked about the iPhone and said that they had accessed it twice but doing it for a third time could have shut it down completely and everything may have been lost so they asked Apple for help. He was not asked whether they had been successful but said it was their duty to find out as much as they could in the way of evidence. However, he did say that this would not alter, one way or the other, the confidence they had that everything was in place to get the correct verdict.

 

[Lyra500]

So the 'new' defense tidbit we have now heard is that he talked with Reeva right before the incident, so that is his excuse for assuming she was in the bed, and not in the bathroom.

But if so, then that means she was awake. And if he knew she was awake, wouldnt he confer with her before getting his guns out and attacking an intruder? Wouldnt he have a quick discussion with his girlfriend about that?

Exactly.

If he is now saying he knew she was awake, then when he came inside with the fans and he heard a sound, what possible explanation has he got for not asking Reeva if she had heard what he had OR checking whether she had got up and the noise was her in the bathroom? There is no rational explanation. I am really hoping that his web of lies will truly catch him out one way or another.

It is so refreshing to find a discussion board not overrun with people desperately trying to insist that OP's story is utterly credible.

 

[jilly]

I disagree. Burger was pretty emphatic that she heard Reeva screaming (it woke her); then Oscar yelling for help; followed by screams that became blood-curdling and finally four shots with a pause between the first and the remaining three.

Viewing this crime as an intimate partner homicide, it isn't hard to imagine a controlling, jealous, perhaps psychologically abusive Oscar who argued with Reeva that night. Maybe she told him they were through. I believe she sought refuge in the toilet, with her phones, and maybe tried to reach out to someone for help. I believe they were arguing through that door and perhaps she stated she was calling the police, friends, etc - and I think Oscar 'snapped' and wanted to stop her at any cost. I haven't followed this case closely but I think we're going to hear about a history of controlling and domineering behaviours with a temper to boot. I could well be wrong though.


I think it was premeditated, legally anyway, but in an instant...more crime of passion than malice aforethought. It will prove interesting though because OP's entire defence strategy will rest upon ripping apart what is reasonable. The argument being that what is reasonable to an able-bodied person isn't the same to someone disabled.

Yup. Read exactly that somewhere yesterday.

 

[Interested Bystander]

He is bound to play the disabled card yet it is known he can run on his stumps, he has often said himself that he does not consider he is disabled. I hope the prosecution have accessed this historical information, much of which was on You Tube.

Quite why he would be searching out trouble if he felt terrified and that he was physically unable to deal with the situation he might find himself in, totally escapes me. As many of us have pointed out, if he had any anxiety about their safety, he should have left the house via the bedroom door and called security.

I am struggling with the new 2 fans issue and the fact that he now says he spoke to her before he brought the fans in. Why did he say in his first affidavit that she was asleep in bed when he brought the fan in. All along I have thought there could be no way he could be sliding doors, pulling blinds and curtains without creating enough noise to wake Reeva. This guy is a compulsive liar. I am sure he will "hang" himself under cross examination.

 

[djameson]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up but ..

is it possible that she was hearing him screaming ? .. she wasn't very close to begin with .. approximately 344 feet away with other houses in between ? .. it's not inconceivable that a guy could sound like a woman when screaming .. some definitely do

 

[Lyra500]

Dr Gerry Versveld is the surgeon who amputated Oscar's legs.

http://oscarpistorius.com/about-oscar/

And here is an article about Annemarie who claims to be his ex wife, is uncertain of her surname and was ejected from court today. I bet she'll try and get back in tomorrow.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-dead-mom-asked-me-to-help-him-1.1475017#.UxSxJ8u9KSM

I have to say that I had never heard of this Annamarie until today. I just scanned part of the links - is she for real or should she be the one undergoing 60 days of psychiatric evaluation? Does she truly have a connection with the surgeon who operated on OP or is just just a total delusional looper?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up but ..

is it possible that she was hearing him screaming ? .. she wasn't very close to begin with .. approximately 344 feet away with other houses in between ? .. it's not inconceivable that a guy could sound like a woman when screaming .. some definitely do

The witness was adamant that there were two voices, one a woman's and one a man's and she said she was well aware of the difference. Roux brought up the point you mention but the witness was quite clear that she knew exactly what she was hearing.

 

[Lyra500]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up but ..

is it possible that she was hearing him screaming ? .. she wasn't very close to begin with .. approximately 344 feet away with other houses in between ? .. it's not inconceivable that a guy could sound like a woman when screaming .. some definitely do

She was quite clear under cross examination that she heard both a man and a woman's voice.

 

[soozieqtips]

Interested Bystander - you mentioned OP "hanging" himself under cross examination. Do we know if he's taking the stand? I assumed (don't know why) that he wouldn't be saying anything. With all the discrepancies in his story, it would be madness if his defence team let him utter a single word!

 

[jilly]

He is bound to play the disabled card yet it is known he can run on his stumps, he has often said himself that he does not consider he is disabled. I hope the prosecution have accessed this historical information, much of which was on You Tube.

Quite why he would be searching out trouble if he felt terrified and that he was physically unable to deal with the situation he might find himself in, totally escapes me. As many of us have pointed out, if he had any anxiety about their safety, he should have left the house via the bedroom door and called security.

I am struggling with the new 2 fans issue and the fact that he now says he spoke to her before he brought the fans in. Why did he say in his first affidavit that she was asleep in bed when he brought the fan in. All along I have thought there could be no way he could be sliding doors, pulling blinds and curtains without creating enough noise to wake Reeva. This guy is a compulsive liar. I am sure he will "hang" himself under cross examination.

There's a second affidavit? I haven't watched the trial, just catching up here.

 

[jilly]

Interested Bystander - you mentioned OP "hanging" himself under cross examination. Do we know if he's taking the stand? I assumed (don't know why) that he wouldn't be saying anything. With all the discrepancies in his story, it would be madness if his defence team let him utter a single word!

I agree.

 

[djameson]

The witness was adamant that there were two voices, one a woman's and one a man's and she said she was well aware of the difference. Roux brought up the point you mention but the witness was quite clear that she knew exactly what she was hearing.

She was quite clear under cross examination that she heard both a man and a woman's voice.

oh I see .. thanks

 

[jilly]

Here's an aerial view of Oscar's residence. I read before the bedroom was on the second floor.

I just found this:

.....Mr Pistorius's home is in the heart of a large estate in the east of Pretoria surrounded by a ten foot-high stone wall topped by an electric wire fence....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ing-took-place-at-home-in-gated-compound.html

 

[Feynman]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up but ..

is it possible that she was hearing him screaming ? .. she wasn't very close to begin with .. approximately 344 feet away with other houses in between ? .. it's not inconceivable that a guy could sound like a woman when screaming .. some definitely do

More like 580 feet.

 

[djameson]

More like 580 feet.

do we have confirmation on this ? ..

I thought 344 was a good little distance with respect to what you can credibly hear .. but 580 would really put it out there .. not sure you can be completely sure of what you heard from that far especially given that there are also structures in that same path from her house to his house

 

[Feynman]

She said 177 meters. That's about 580 feet. See

http://www.google.com/#q=177+meters+in+feet

 

[Lola68]

pp

I agree with your comment about the judge. She seemed a little weak and should have stopped Roux badgering. I hope there is some improvement and she becomes more involved tomorrow. Reeva needed a judge equal to the first witness who knew where she was going and was very firm.
.

On the contrary, I think she's being very clever. From what I've read the judge is very experienced, respected and particularly supportive of women's rights. I think she allowed Roux to continue with his aggressive questioning to highlight the extreme measures the defence are taking, and also to mitigate against potential criticism that she is biased in favour of the prosecution (I.e. vulnerable female) so more likely to take a hard line against OP. IMHO

 

[seattlechiquita]

Wild About Trial has video archives:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

I haven't watched them yet, but before the trial began my feeling was that it would be difficult to get a conviction on premeditated murder judging from the information that was available before the trial started. I think it will come down to the credibility of the witnesses against Pistorius.

Thank you minor! I followed the case at the onset but work and other pending cases have kept me away. Hopefully I can catch up ---this difference in time zones is loco!