Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[Gavel Rash]

Oscar never had a 'relationship' with Reeva...he had another trophy...another watch...another car...another gun....

Lord knows how big of a cabinet he was going to fit into his house to keep his trophy girlfriends in too.

'Win at all costs'

 

[Insp.Dots]

Does anyone know......if the state does more damage with the rest of phone evidence or something else tomorrow. Would/could the defence advise their client to change his plea and if so would that in turn make any odds to sentencing? Not sure how it works in SA. TIA

 

[Gbtaketwo]

The thing is anyone could create the craziest theory about what happened and it would still be as believable as Oscar's fairtytale.
For instance i could say i believe It was aliens who fired the first shots to kill Oscar's dogs, they then beamed up the dogs's and as is a custom on there planet through down a pair of jeans as a thank you, they then seized control of oscars mind and made him fire the 2nd set of shots, then the alien's secret leader Hilton Botha turned up to create confusion m'lady,

Lol ........those jeans again !!!

 

[katydid23]

Much too early in a relationship? When is it acceptable, then? After six months, a year?

Of course it is never acceptable. But I don't think that was the point she/he was making. The point is that three months into a relationship, both sides are usually on best behavior. For a guy to be so controlling and jealous, so early on, is a big red flag.

 

[BritsKate]

Well, not so much for Casey... the jury clearly did not think there was anything pointing to her guilt.

Peterson's case was hugely circumstantial. Many said at the time that having an affair and being a "cad" doesn't equal being a murderer. To this day, we still don't know how he murdered her, yet he's on death row.

At the end of the day, it's all about individual perception... and how good your lawyers are.

The one thing I've learned for sure over the years is that human beings are capable of just about anything, and you quite frequently don't see it coming.

The Michelle Young case still haunts me too. 29 year old mother to a 2 year old and 5 months pregnant...

Her relationship with her husband had been rocky. He blamed her for issues she had stemming from being raped in college. She went to counseling to 'fix' herself and the counselor had to tell her that she was being verbally abused. It was her first and last counseling session because her husband, who had absolutely no history of physical violence, beat her and their unborn baby to death.

Emotional abuse can be extremely difficult to identify even for victims themselves. Covert, insidious, and very often accepted, justified, and/or minimized by friends, family and society. Yet it's led to many instances of fatal first-time violence.

JMO

 

[kittychi]

Maybe someone else had called her those names and she was upset he didn't stand up to them?

Apparently an ex (Sam?) was saying that and tweeting that about her.

Sorry, I don't remember when/where I read that!

 

[minor4th]

Of course it is never acceptable. But I don't think that was the point she/he was making. The point is that three months into a relationship, both sides are usually on best behavior. For a guy to be so controlling and jealous, so early on, is a big red flag.

To be fair, those messages indicated that they both had some jealousy issues and were unhappy about the other being inattentive.

 

[katydid23]

You could be right. I just don't think it's that conclusive based on such a limited window into the relationship.

I don't think it is that 'limited' of a window. It is essentially ALL of their daily communications besides the face to face ones. And they are also describing their face to face arguments and public spats with each other. That is quite a wide window, imo.

It does not make him a murderer, no. But it does show that he is very judgmental and reactive. For instance, he states that if he ever found out that she smoked pot more than once, he 'could not be with that person.' That is a pretty strict and unforgiving standard. So what if he did find out that she had a partying past? Then what?

Looking at these texts, in context with the 'rumors' that she was about to warn him about the on camera kiss with a co-star of her reality show makes me wonder if that was the motive for his rage. If he had a public meltdown when he saw her touch a man's arm, what would he do if he found out she was going to kiss someone on tv?

 

[steveml]

Reeva tells OP she is afraid of him, and you give that no weight at all?

And just because 90% of the convos are 'loving' does not mean that it was not an abusive relationship. Quite the contrary. jmo

There are far too many abusive relationships, and I'm sure everyone on here is equally disturbed by this fact. That said, if you had a look at many mobile phones, and saw those 3 messages, you couldn't automatically attribute them to an abusive relationship. Well, you could, but the couple would both be entitled to disagree and give you a frosty remark.

It's a very emotive issue for people, but it should not influence your reasoning.

 

[katydid23]

To be fair, those messages indicated that they both had some jealousy issues and were unhappy about the other being inattentive.

Did he express fear of her? Did he say he had to leave an event because she was having a public tantrum?

 

[steveml]

I don't think it is that 'limited' of a window. It is essentially ALL of their daily communications besides the face to face ones. And they are also describing their face to face arguments and public spats with each other. That is quite a wide window, imo.

It does not make him a murderer, no. But it does show that he is very judgmental and reactive. For instance, he states that if he ever found out that she smoked pot more than once, he 'could not be with that person.' That is a pretty strict and unforgiving standard. So what if he did find out that she had a partying past? Then what?

Looking at these texts, in context with the 'rumors' that she was about to warn him about the on camera kiss with a co-star of her reality show makes me wonder if that was the motive for his rage. If he had a public meltdown when he saw her touch a man's arm, what would he do if he found out she was going to kiss someone on tv?

Does anyone have any idea how many times Reeva and OP have been out together? Being a celebrity couple, with their own careers and separate houses I'd be very surprised if it's many. To see so many messages over such a short period of time may suggest this as well.

 

[katydid23]

There are far too many abusive relationships, and I'm sure everyone on here is equally disturbed by this fact. That said, if you had a look at many mobile phones, and saw those 3 messages, you couldn't automatically attribute them to an abusive relationship. Well, you could, but the couple would both be entitled to disagree and give you a frosty remark.

It's a very emotive issue for people, but it should not influence your reasoning.

No, not from only 3 messages. But in this case, we have other corroborating evidence to fall back upon. We have Sam's testimony, that he screamed at her and many of her friends and had lots of jealousy issues, which sometimes included shooting off firearms. We have 5 ear witnesses that heard a woman screaming in fear,and we have a woman with four black talons tearing her apart.

 

[minor4th]

Calling stander instead of medical help is an indicator of guilt imo, how else can that be explained?.
Put any person in his shoes according to his story and it goes like this "i found(insert name) slumped over but alive", i phoned an ambulance.

That does not indicate guilt to me for 2 reasons: 1. He called Stander and asked Stander to call an ambulance, and 2. Immediately after his call to stander he called Netcare.

No indication that he was trying to hide the fact that he killed Reeva. How do you think it indicates guilt?

 

[soozieqtips]

To be fair, those messages indicated that they both had some jealousy issues and were unhappy about the other being inattentive.

But only one appeared to be frightened of the other. And only one was running around trying to cater to the other's every need for fear of upsetting him if she didn't live up to his exacting (and unattainable) standards. There's no indication at all that OP was scared of Reeva.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I think one thing today also may have been noted by the Judge. OP said last year he couldn't remember his whats app password, forcing the state to get it from USA......seeing as he used the all to write thousands of messages I struggle to believe that. Which leans me to believe he was wilfully trying to withhold evidence...have a feeling that the state may well come with more evidence that he had hoped would be hidden and if that has anything to do with Reeva attempting to get help he is doomed!
I am interested now at how far his arrogance and superiority will go.....I don't know about anyone else but I can't wait for him to get on the stand!
Also mega respect for Reeva's family today must have torn at their hearts but they remained totally dignified.

 

[james83]

There are far too many abusive relationships, and I'm sure everyone on here is equally disturbed by this fact. That said, if you had a look at many mobile phones, and saw those 3 messages, you couldn't automatically attribute them to an abusive relationship. Well, you could, but the couple would both be entitled to disagree and give you a frosty remark.

It's a very emotive issue for people, but it should not influence your reasoning.

Disagree why though?, because of shame that's why, shame that they can't admit what there partner is, shame that they put up with it and carry on, abuse doesn't have to be acknowledged for it to be abuse.
Those messages reveal the classic signs of abuse- Get angry, apologize, blame partner for the anger and repeat over and over.

 

[beach]

Hi everyone. Lovely to meet you all. I've just become a member, having accessed and read all your riveting posts for ages. Thank you admin

In light of recent evidence, possibly a case of: if I can't have you, no-one can. Imo I'm erring towards guilty, personally.

:welcome: Gryffindor!

So happy you decided to leave lurkdom and join the discussion!

 

[minor4th]

Did he express fear of her? Did he say he had to leave an event because she was having a public tantrum?

Not those specifically - he only expressed that he was unhappy about the way he was treated at times.

I don't think it's fair to say she did everything right and he was an abuser 3 months into the relationship based on a couple of texts. For sure they had issues they were trying to work out, but I don't think much more than that can be concluded about this.

What everyone is saying about him being an abusive boyfriend who got enraged and was violent could be true, but it could also not be true and I think it's too much of a reach to say for sure that is what happened and that's how their relationship was.

 

[minor4th]

I might add that a person (male or female) can behave badly without being an abuser.

 

[DebinGA]

Reeva tells OP she is afraid of him, and you give that no weight at all?

And just because 90% of the convos are 'loving' does not mean that it was not an abusive relationship. Quite the contrary. jmo

I wonder if that OP msg. that went something like ... "Angel, please keep quiet about the gun firing at dinner incident since Darren has agreed to take the blame 'cause I can't afford to" was "loving" since OP called her "Angel"?