Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Viper]

I don't know if this is the pic you were referring to but it's from Lisa's blog on that page you linked

Is Point "A" the one the State says was the first shot and hit her in the hip?

No, point "B" is the shot that came first. Please refer to the image I am referring to, it is very telling!

Bullet hole "B" the 2nd from the left, not the 3rd from the left, my mistake. But ether way after he shot her in the hip OP moved both to his left and to his right, from a distance, and he still had 100% accuracy in two of the three shots! He absolutely aimed at Reeva's screams to do that!

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

 

[04009margaret]

I agree - my mom was my best friend but she never knew the extent. I hid it from her deliberately. She knew my ex had a temper, but she never knew about the guns pulled on me or that he threatened to hit me almost daily. There was an immense shame that I'd gotten myself into such a mess. Others opinions of me never mattered nearly as much as what my mother thought of me.

Reeva did reach out to her mother about Oscar though...and it would also seem there may have been some isolation starting to take place in her relationship with Oscar as well.


Read more: http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/lifes...pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-death#ixzz2xoO5Zdrs


http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

Sorry if it's already been answered, I've been trying to catch up for the past 4 days lol. The abuse was by a boyfriend who was a jockey, by memory her father had a close relationship with him, it's covered in this documentary.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MedbKo8mgs

 

[minor4th]

So weird how something can look completely different if you just adjust the angle a little bit or view from a different perspective. Those pics are very helpful and again thank you to Lisa for putting those pics together on the blog like that

 

[MeeBee]

No, point "B" is the shot that came first. Please refer to the image I am referring to, it is very telling!

Bullet hole "B" the 2nd from the left, not the 3rd from the left, my mistake. But ether way after he shot her in the hip OP moved both to his left and to his right, from a distance, and he still had 100% accuracy in two of the three shots! He absolutely aimed at Reeva's screams to do that!

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

It's not telling it's misleading. The proximity and angle of the camera to the trajectory rods in the picture you're using is off. The ones of a clearer angle and proper zoom show a much different story. He did not move his hand, he fired from the same spot. The hand just doesn't fall back in the same spot. Think of people firing at a target at a shooting range.

 

[minor4th]

State says "B" was first? That's weird. I need to listen to ballistics guy again - anyone recall off the top of his head why or how he determined which one was first?

ETA: It has now been clarified that it was shot "A" the state said was first ..

 

[Gryffindor]

That is incorrect. Please open the link, this is an image that I have not seen discussed. When you look at the image, imagine each rod has a pistol stuck on the end of it - all four rods, then imagine where OP would have to be standing to hold and aim each of the four pistols to get the bullets to hit the same area behind the door. The first shot is the highest up, 3rd from the left. So to fire the other three shots OP had to move to the right of that rod and to the left of that rod.

Moving around like that and targeting (aiming) at Reeva's voice as she fell. It's amazing!!!

Hi Viper

The 1st shot was nearest the bathroom windows side. The 2nd shot was the highest (B) hence missing Reeva as she'd collapsed into magazine rack.

Also, for other posters who have mentioned he remained in one affixed position for all shots, the ballistics man testified that it was a possibility Oscar had moved inside the bathroom, to the right, nearer to the sinks after either the 1st or 2nd shot.

 

[TorisMom003]

That is incorrect. Please open the link, this is an image that I have not seen discussed. When you look at the image, imagine each rod has a pistol stuck on the end of it - all four rods, then imagine where OP would have to be standing to hold and aim each of the four pistols to get the bullets to hit the same area behind the door. The first shot is the highest up, 3rd from the left. So to fire the other three shots OP had to move to the right of that rod and to the left of that rod.

Moving around like that and targeting (aiming) at Reeva's voice as she fell. It's amazing!!!

Viper, the first shot is not the highest up one. The shots all move from left to right, facing the door from the bathroom side. There is another photo that has the rods shown from the bathroom side of the door that are marked A - D.

link for photo
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ius-fatally-shot-girlfriend-article-1.1740454

ETA: Sorry if this has been brought up already, I am behind on the thread and trying to catch up.

 

[nastasya]

Does this help?

 

[sorrell skye]

Right, I understand - I'm just asking which one they said was first. Was it "A"?

Yes - "A" was the bullet that struck Reeva in the hip, and was the one Mangena said must have been the first shot.

 

[MeeBee]

Here's a shot of the rods from above. There are slight variances in angles. It's possible he moved a bit to the side.

 

[minor4th]

So shot "A" was first? That makes more sense as it visually looks a tiny bit separated from the other shots

 

[steveml]

At the very least, it appears (IMO) that he moved his aim, even if he didn't move his physical stance while firing.

His aim will have moved but only inches. That's to be expected as after each shot the gun recoils and moves. He's also firing in total darkness at a target he can't see, whilst on his stumps.

If a shot would have missed the door totally it wouldn't have surprised me.

 

[minor4th]

His aim will have moved but only inches. That's to be expected as after each shot the gun recoils and moves. He's also firing in total darkness at a target he can't see, whilst on his stumps.

If a shot would have missed the door totally it wouldn't have surprised me.

In the bail hearing the state said he was "shooting blind" into the door, which I believe was the case.

 

[TorisMom003]

Shot A was first, the one to the hip
Shot B was the second shot and was the one that missed Reeva
Shots C and D they are unsure as to which was before the other, these are the arm and head shots

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=4A130A71E860D01445654A130A71E860D0144565

 

[sorrell skye]

His aim will have moved but only inches. That's to be expected as after each shot the gun recoils and moves. He's also firing in total darkness at a target he can't see, whilst on his stumps.

If a shot would have missed the door totally it wouldn't have surprised me.

I agree about the recoil, but I don't know that he was shooting in total darkness. Didn't the Stipps testify to seeing the bathroom light on during the bangs they heard?

In addition, if the bathroom light was on, OP is reported to be an experienced marksman. If so, I think he would be able to compensate for recoil.

 

[steveml]

Hi Viper

The 1st shot was nearest the bathroom windows side. The 2nd shot was the highest (B) hence missing Reeva as she'd collapsed into magazine rack.

Also, for other posters who have mentioned he remained in one affixed position for all shots, the ballistics man testified that it was a possibility Oscar had moved inside the bathroom, to the right, nearer to the sinks after either the 1st or 2nd shot.

That's how it would look if you are very close to the door. The closer you are the larger the movement you have to make to put a shot further to one side. I expect DT to show the same test but with the rods, or similar, extended to the longer distance that OP may have shot from. There should be a gasp from the court when they see how small the movement has to be.

If they don't I'll...

:hills:

 

[Gryffindor]

State says "B" was first? That's weird. I need to listen to ballistics guy again - anyone recall off the top of his head why or how he determined which one was first?

Minor, the shots are labelled in alphabetical order which correlate numerically with the order in which they were shot , i.e.. A=1 B=2 C=3/4. D=3/4

Ballistics testimony was unsure out of C and D which were 3rd and 4th, so they're interchangeable.

 

[steveml]

I agree about the recoil, but I don't know that he was shooting in total darkness. Didn't the Stipps testify to seeing the bathroom light on during the bangs they heard?

Thanks,

Yep, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here.

The light will have to be confirmed yet.

 

[TorisMom003]

That's how it would look if you are very close to the door. The closer you are the larger the movement you have to make to put a shot further to one side. I expect DT to show the same test but with the rods, or similar, extended to the longer distance that OP may have shot from. There should be a gasp from the court when they see how small the movement has to be.

If they don't I'll...

:hills:

Might want to get on your running shoes then. :blushing:

The shots, the order of them and the placing of them, show me that OP was tracking the sounds of Reeva in the toilet room and firing where he heard the sounds coming from. If this is not what he did, then he got extremely lucky that he just happened to move the gun to the right and down, the same place that Reeva fell at.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

I agree about the recoil, but I don't know that he was shooting in total darkness. Didn't the Stipps testify to seeing the bathroom light on during the bangs they heard?

In addition, if the bathroom light was on, OP is reported to be an experienced marksman. If so, I think he would be able to compensate for recoil.

I don't think either Stipp looked out exactly as the shots were being fired, but afterwards when they heard screaming the light was on according to their testimony.

In any event, I did not get the impression that the bathroom was totally dark like the bedroom. There would have been some ambient light from the bathroom windows I think. Far as I know, OP never said the bathroom was pitch black but I might have forgotten.