Trial Discussion Thread #17

[minor4th]

Minor, the shots are labelled in alphabetical order which correlate numerically with the order in which they were shot , i.e.. A=1 B=2 C=3/4. D=3/4

Ballistics testimony was unsure out of C and D which were 3rd and 4th, so they're interchangeable.

Thanks I got it now, and I updated my post so it doesn't cause any more confusion.

 

[steveml]

In the bail hearing the state said he was "shooting blind" into the door, which I believe was the case.

Yep,

I'd go one step further.

If shooting through a wooden door can be considered shooting blind, shooting through a wooden door in total darkness has to be considered blind-blind.

DT ballistic experts will have a field day with this.

If they can sort the light issue out.

 

[Gryffindor]

Thanks I got it now, and I updated my post so it doesn't cause any more confusion.

You're most welcome x

 

[Gryffindor]

Yep,

I'd go one step further.

If shooting through a wooden door can be considered shooting blind, shooting through a wooden door in total darkness has to be considered blind-blind.

DT ballistic experts will have a field day with this.

If they can sort the light issue out.

Haha! Considered blind-blind or STUPID!!

 

[minor4th]

Yep,

I'd go one step further.

If shooting through a wooden door can be considered shooting blind, shooting through a wooden door in total darkness has to be considered blind-blind.

DT ballistic experts will have a field day with this.

If they can sort the light issue out.

So, yeah, I think the assertion is that he was shooting "blind" through the door, i.e., not knowing what he was shooting at or where exactly they were. Not sure about the total darkness bit yet.

 

[Noisy Fan]

Mr Stipps saw Oscar moving around in the bathroom with the light on. I believe he mentioned seeing Oscar's tattoo (meaning Oscar was shirtless). I wonder why he was not asked how much of Oscar's torso he saw or how tall did Oscar appear in the window? Might go to addressing whether he had his legs on?

 

[Viper]

Hi Viper

The 1st shot was nearest the bathroom windows side. The 2nd shot was the highest (B) hence missing Reeva as she'd collapsed into magazine rack.

Also, for other posters who have mentioned he remained in one affixed position for all shots, the ballistics man testified that it was a possibility Oscar had moved inside the bathroom, to the right, nearer to the sinks after either the 1st or 2nd shot.

The shots were labeled A B C and D, going from left to right. If B did miss her that's fine I believe you. But what I am driving here is the amount of movement that OP made and from a distance at that. It was easy enough to see him firing the first shot and then moving to his right and firing the remaing three shots from that position; but reviewing the image it is clear that he moves (takes a step) after each shot is fired and then reacquires his aim again and he repeats this all three times. This absolutely goes to premeditation to murder, he could not do all of those things and still be 100% accurate with the three of his shots unless he was targeting Reeva's voice.

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

 

[minor4th]

Mr Stipps saw Oscar moving around in the bathroom with the light on. I believe he mentioned seeing Oscar's tattoo (meaning Oscar was shirtless). I wonder why he was not asked how much of Oscar's torso he saw or how tall did Oscar appear in the window? Might go to addressing whether he had his legs on?

He saw the tattoo when he went over to OP's house to help and OP was shirtless. He then went home and told Mrs Stipp that the shooter had tattoos on his back.

His testimony about a figure moving in the bathroom was extremely vague - probably because he only has a vague memory of it or did not see much detail in the first place.

 

[steveml]

It's not telling it's misleading. The proximity and angle of the camera to the trajectory rods in the picture you're using is off. The ones of a clearer angle and proper zoom show a much different story. He did not move his hand, he fired from the same spot. The hand just doesn't fall back in the same spot. Think of people firing at a target at a shooting range.

Exactly. No targeting whatsoever.

OP's intention was to hit that door wherever he could, as quickly as he could, nothing more.

 

[DebinGA]

So, yeah, I think the assertion is that he was shooting "blind" through the door, i.e., not knowing what he was shooting at or where exactly they were. Not sure about the total darkness bit yet.

OP's affi said he "noticed the bathroom window was open", so it wasn't pitch black. He was deaf too apparently.

 

[Gryffindor]

Mr Stipps saw Oscar moving around in the bathroom with the light on. I believe he mentioned seeing Oscar's tattoo (meaning Oscar was shirtless). I wonder why he was not asked how much of Oscar's torso he saw or how tall did Oscar appear in the window? Might go to addressing whether he had his legs on?

Dr Stipp witnessed Oscar's tattoo when he went round to help at the house. He only said he saw a pale/light figure moving from left to right in the window.

DT and PT have already agreed and established Oscar DIDN'T have his prosthetics on whilst shooting.

Hope that helps x

 

[MeeBee]

The shots were labeled A B C and D, going from left to right. If B did miss her that's fine I believe you. But what I am driving here is the amount of movement that OP made and from a distance at that. It was easy enough to see him firing the first shot and then moving to his right and firing the remaing three shots from that position; but reviewing the image it is clear that he moves (takes a step) after each shot is fired and then reacquires his aim again and he repeats this all three times. This absolutely goes to premeditation to murder, he could not do all of those things and still be 100% accurate with the three of his shots unless he was targeting Reeva's voice.

It would be helpful if someone could also post the order in which A B C and D were fired.

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

Wouldn't that require a pause after each shot?

 

[minor4th]

OP's affi said he "noticed the bathroom window was open", so it wasn't pitch black. He was deaf too apparently.

Well, that's kind of how I would picture a bathroom in the middle of the night - maybe a bit of light from the outside street lamps or whatever.

What do you mean he was deaf?

 

[Gryffindor]

The shots were labeled A B C and D, going from left to right. If B did miss her that's fine I believe you. But what I am driving here is the amount of movement that OP made and from a distance at that. It was easy enough to see him firing the first shot and then moving to his right and firing the remaing three shots from that position; but reviewing the image it is clear that he moves (takes a step) after each shot is fired and then reacquires his aim again and he repeats this all three times. This absolutely goes to premeditation to murder, he could not do all of those things and still be 100% accurate with the three of his shots unless he was targeting Reeva's voice.

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/35.jpg

I posted a few posts up about the order of shots, Viper

 

[sorrell skye]

Exactly. No targeting whatsoever.

OP's intention was to hit that door wherever he could, as quickly as he could, nothing more.

Not trying to split hairs here, but...

OP wasn't trying to hit the door.

OP's intention was to kill whomever was behind the door, and he succeeded.

 

[DebinGA]

Well, that's kind of how I would picture a bathroom in the middle of the night - maybe a bit of light from the outside street lamps or whatever.

What do you mean he was deaf?

I believe the ear witnesses about pre-shots raised voices and screams.

 

[Viper]

Wouldn't that require a pause after each shot?

A fraction of a second pause yes, about the same time it would have taken him to reacquire his aim after firing a shot, because the gun pops upwards after each shot. But by him physically moving and reacquiring his aim at the same time and hitting his target successfully 2 of the 3 times I cannot see any argument that he was not trying to shoot at Reeva's voice as being convincing.

 

[minor4th]

Not trying to split hairs here, but...

OP wasn't trying to hit the door.

OP's intention was to kill whomever was behind the door, and he succeeded.

Yeah, given the size of the bathroom, it would be hard to miss a person 4 times when shooting through the door

 

[MeeBee]

I believe the ear witnesses about pre-shots raised voices and screams.

Only one witness has reports this, and I feel her home is too far from OP's house to hear loud talking, "as if arguing" coming from there. Yelling? Probably. But not loud talking.

 

[DebinGA]

Not trying to split hairs here, but...

OP wasn't trying to hit the door.

OP's intention was to kill whomever was behind the door, and he succeeded.

ITA. There can't be any screams but his own in OP's tale.