Trial Discussion Thread #17

[TorisMom003]

While you were guessing, you too have been killed.

And while I died, you missed my point entirely.

The point is OP can't keep his story straight and apparently feels that he needed to change it up because it was not believable as it stood.

The bedroom door is closer to the bed than the toilet room door. The panic button is even closer. OP could have simply hid behind the corner of the wall that is in the bedroom that goes to the corridor to the bathroom. Instead he decides to go straight away towards the "danger" while announcing where he is.

Please explain to me the sense in that.

 

[Noisy Fan]

As well, if you think about it, once Oscar got between the threat and Reeva, he most assuredly warned her by shouting out loud ...

 

[minor4th]

And while I died, you missed my point entirely.

The point is OP can't keep his story straight and apparently feels that he needed to change it up because it was not believable as it stood.

The bedroom door is closer to the bed than the toilet room door. The panic button is even closer. OP could have simply hid behind the corner of the wall that is in the bedroom that goes to the corridor to the bathroom. Instead he decides to go straight away towards the "danger" while announcing where he is.

Please explain to me the sense in that.

Where is this panic button and how exactly does that protect him from an armed intruder in the bathroom?

 

[TorisMom003]

Where is this panic button and how exactly does that protect him from an armed intruder in the bathroom?

Not sure where the panic button is as that has not been disclosed. It gets them help coming immediately giving them time to go out the bedroom door.

I see that the rest of my post is ignored.

Why did OP feel the need to go and confront the "intruder" while letting the "intruder" know his location instead of staying in the bedroom behind something with his gun pointed towards the corridor?

 

[Viper]

While you were guessing, you too have been killed.

BIB. By a door? The door wasn't threatening anyone with a weapon, neither was the fictional intruder that was locked behind the sinister "door!" :floorlaugh:

 

[james83]

Nice illustration of the defense case.

And I suggest that the law is not so simple as some suggest - that there's no situation that allows you to shoot to kill at an unidentified target.

I think the law takes into account whether the fear of imminent harm was real or not.

We shall see, but i think you will find you are wrong come sentencing.

 

[jay-jay]

Ah, I should have remembered that...but...principle regarding not being able to have two keys in a lock at once remains. The keys were dislodged during the bashing of the door.

In my excitement of the two-key revelation I forgot that I'd mentioned the key was probably dislodged due to the door bashing in an earlier post.

You stole my thunder :tsktsk:

But it's back :smile:

Agree with what you say about not being able to use a spare key if there is already a key in the lock on the other side of the door.

As regards the key on the inside of the door apparently being found on the ground, some of us disputed this the other day and explained how .. when a key like that is turned in a keyhole to lock it, that it would be very difficult for it to just fall out (i.e from the cricket bat bashing). In the unlocked position .. yes .. it would fall out easily .. but not in the locked position (and it had to have been in the locked position, otherwise the cricket bat bashing would've have been required, as per OP's version).

 

[Noisy Fan]

And while I died, you missed my point entirely.

The point is OP can't keep his story straight and apparently feels that he needed to change it up because it was not believable as it stood.

The bedroom door is closer to the bed than the toilet room door. The panic button is even closer. OP could have simply hid behind the corner of the wall that is in the bedroom that goes to the corridor to the bathroom. Instead he decides to go straight away towards the "danger" while announcing where he is.

Please explain to me the sense in that.

Toilet room door has nothing to do with it at this early point. They are in the bathroom proper, possibly on their way to the bedroom.

 

[james83]

Yes, now you are dead and your girlfriend will be raped and killed because you did not neutralize the threat that you perceived.

Er no because if we are playing along with the story it was my girlfriend that shot me wasn't it?.
Probably because i'm such a jealous, insecure, controlling ****.

 

[jay-jay]

Just this makes me think even more about the whole thing NOT happening as OP says it did. WHO locks themselves in the WC in their own/their partner's house? I mean, seriously. No one does that. You lock yourself inside somewhere when you are trying to keep someone AWAY FROM YOU.

There are many things about this case that indicates to me that OP deliberately shot Reeva dead, but that isn't one of them .. this is a fairly trivial piece of 'evidence' and can be discounted pretty quickly because she may just have done it out of habit, simple as that. That one thing on it's own cannot possibly prove to anyone that the whole story is fabricated (I happen to believe it is, but for a number of other reasons).

 

[minor4th]

Not sure where the panic button is as that has not been disclosed. It gets them help coming immediately giving them time to go out the bedroom door.

I see that the rest of my post is ignored.

Why did OP feel the need to go and confront the "intruder" while letting the "intruder" know his location instead of staying in the bedroom behind something with his gun pointed towards the corridor?

There's some kind of disconnect here - if he really believes there is someone in the bathroom who is about to shoot him and hurt Reeva, then he has no time to wait 3 minutes for security, he has no time to get his legs on and unlock the door, and he cannot reliably get out of the bedroom and down the stairs with no legs without getting shot.

He did stay somewhat behind the corner of the wall while he shot towards the toilet, or so it seems from the trajectory of the bullets. I don't understand why it is hard to understand why he would do this if he really thought he and Reeva were about to be shot. Forget for a minute whether it was reasonable or not for him to think that.

 

[james83]

As well, if you think about it, once Oscar got between the threat and Reeva, he most assuredly warned her by shouting out loud ...

And of course thought nothing of it when she didn't reply.
You'll be justifying him firing 4 times next no doubt.

 

[Noisy Fan]

BIB. By a door? The door wasn't threatening anyone with a weapon, neither was the fictional intruder that was locked behind the sinister "door!" :floorlaugh:

You make jokes while one woman is dead and another person faces a minimum of 25 years in prison?

 

[Viper]

As well, if you think about it, once Oscar got between the threat and Reeva, he most assuredly warned her by shouting out loud ...

BIB. OP warned the silent sinister intruder too! "Get out of my house!" Mr. Intruder. But OP did not give the intruder the opportunity to get out of his house, he murdered the poor unarmed and unthreatening intruder with four shots, three of them hit the intruder including one bullet to the intruder's head. Seems unfair and unlawful to kill a human being under those circumstances.

 

[minor4th]

Er no because if we are playing along with the story it was my girlfriend that shot me wasn't it?.
Probably because i'm such a jealous, insecure, controlling ****.

No, it was the armed intruder in the bathroom who shot you while your girlfriend was in the bed.

 

[TorisMom003]

Toilet room door has nothing to do with it at this early point. They are in the bathroom proper, possibly on their way to the bedroom.

Perhaps the defense's story (OP's story) is being missed then. The toilet room door clearly is already at play as that is where the "intruder" was. There is no "possibly" in the defense story (OP's) story.

If it is asked of us to play along and see things a certain way, can we at least make sure that the story is what the defense/OP is claiming?

 

[steveml]

Previewing the DT pathologist testimony:

"During cross-examination, defense attorney Barry Roux suggested the magazine rack caused bruising on Steenkamp's back, the Telegraph said. Mangena disagreed, but Roux said the expert hadn't tested that theory.Roux also said the shooting sequence couldn't be determined, and Mangena again said, "I disagree with that." [UPI - Mangena's on stand]

I understand why Roux wants the head shot to be first, but what difference does it make whether RS's back bruises were from the ricochet or the rack? I think I read Roux also said or will say there was no ricochet, despite the one bullet hole in the wall. How would there being no ricochet help OP? Didn't he admit to firing 4 shots?

Yep, I don't understand the importance of the back bruises.

The order of shots is such a grey area as well. I'm struggling to see how any opinion on this can be so certain. We haven't even been able to establish how far back the bullets were fired from ballistics evidence.
I'm not suggesting they don't know their job, it just shows how difficult it is.

To know the order of the shots you basically need to be certain how Reeva reacted behind that door. Once the body has been removed it's such a difficult job.

You're correct, DT would prefer it to be head shot first as that means no sound whatsoever after 1st shot. Once we get past the 1st shot, the length/time of screaming, if any, can only be determined as anything from the 2nd shot until the 4th.

This is why I was saying if just one witness could have given a good estimation of time between 1st and 4th shots, it would have helped immensely. Who was the counting woman?



...I bet it's Mrs Stipp

 

[Viper]

You make jokes while one woman is dead and another person faces a minimum of 25 years in prison?

BIB. Oh I think he faces a lot more than 25 years in prison. But we will have to wait and see.

 

[jay-jay]

I meant to have said, I believe those types of locks are called 'mortice' locks.

 

[james83]

No, it was the armed intruder in the bathroom who shot you while your girlfriend was in the bed.

No it wasn't, he only had one of those guns where the flag comes out with bang written on it.