Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[minor4th]

He went completely off script when he said "Before I knew it I shot 4 times", he admitted he shot without thinking.

Perhaps he said that because it is the truth. If he were just making stuff up to beat the rap, he would have said something like "I was certain there was an intruder in the bathroom and I deliberately shot at the toilet to stop the bad guy from shooting me."

He didn't. He gave an account that places more culpability on his own shoulders - this makes the whole account more credible IMO

 

[Viper]

But why was he crying? Was it because he is sincerely sorry that he "accidentally" shot and killed Reeva or is it because he hears how his story sounds and knows that he is going to face real prison time?

Because Roux instructed him to burst out at that moment, after giving that portion of his testimony. Timing and headlines seem to be more important than testifying to his alleged innocence.

 

[soozieqtips]

And yet when seeing Reeva's blood on the bathroom floor and the toilet it didn't faze him one bit. He was able to clearly and correctly point out the things asked of him in that photo.

Yeah, and when he finally got into the toilet and discovered what he'd done, did he get immediate help, or did he sit there with her for "I don't know how long" till she had no chance of surviving anyway.

Was he screaming and bawling and howling and retching when the Standers were there? Or when Dr Stipp turned up out of the blue? Stipp said OP was crying and very upset, yet while OP was actually bending over Reeva's dead and bloody body trying to open her airways, did he bawl and scream and wail then? Not according to any witnesses, he didn't. Yet a year later, and in front of the person who will decide his fate - he suddenly has a total breakdown. Not buying it.

The guy's been busy living his life like nothing happened since he murdered Reeva, off on holidays and getting a new g/friend, while Reeva's family have had to endure over a year waiting to find out what happened that night. Now OP has to face up to what he's done and he doesn't want to. Poor him.

 

[Carol70]

He ended Reeva's life by killing her.

He changed his own life because how he killed her is unlawful murder, for which he'll do time in prison.

And that's if he's telling the truth, which in all probability, he's not.

Well, that's your opinion I guess!

And you don't have to keep reminding me that he killed her, I know that, we ALL know that..that's not what is in dispute!

 

[Waddles]

I have to admit he's clever to manage acting out all that wailing, sobbing and being sick. If it is an act.

Thinking about it I've never heard an adult crying and sobbing so loudly. That's not to say adults never do. I have heard children do it, usually when they want to be heard either in protest or to be comforted.

I am just jumping in here after months away. I lean to him being guilty but I'm still not sure. However I do find his emotion absolutely genuine and even if he killed her in a rage after an argument I still think he would be displaying this emotion. He did love her after all and the whole ordeal was horrendous. I'm not feeling sorry for him, I'm suspicious, but I do find his emotions authentic and I'm not surprised he's wailing and vomiting. I know many who would in an intense situation of being responsible for the loss of someone they loved. I think he does want to be comforted. I was uncomfortable when he was saying how he can't sleep etc and his sister coming to sit by him, the sleeping pills, as I feel it was inappropriate for Reeva's parents and friends to hear him feeling sorry for himself considering he killed Reeva regardless. But I didn't hear the whole thing, maybe he was asked to say what he went through. JMO

ETA for clarity

 

[TorisMom003]

Now for the one I had been waiting for.

The message about Reeva trying to head towards the door while saying her goodbyes to people in her industry. The one where she says the line "I can't be attacked by outsiders for dating u AND be attacked by you the one person I deserve protection from". (By the way, the capitalized AND is what is in the actual message......I am not shouting at anyone and I sincerely doubt that Reeva was shouting it at OP) Reeva is upset that OP criticized her loudly so that others could hear.

OP's response in court is that he asked Reeva if they could walk straight for the exit and not stop because as soon as he stops he will have to take photos and he had training in the morning. He needed to get to bed. As soon as they left the table she stopped to talk to a friend of hers, being kind hearted like she was, she stopped to talk and didn't walk to the exit. They didn't leave until 40 or 50 minutes later. On the way to the car they started arguing, but not many people overheard them - just a friend of his and the friends girlfriend. In the car he told her it was important for him to leave early.

So does this not show that nothing is OP's fault? That he minimizes his own part in the late leaving? And it also minimizes her feelings/concerns that other people overheard him criticizing her. After all, it was only one of his friends and the friends girlfriend that overheard.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

No way in hell could you mistake his wailing for a female. The pitch was much deeper. And if he's judged unfit to testify because he can't speak without bawling every minute, then do us all a favour and stick him in a padded cell. He can't get let off this just because he can't speak! Of course he can speak. He's choosing not to, and he's choosing not to at the most convenient times.

I agree!

It seems, OP had laid his hands over the eyes or even a cloth over the whole head and had stuck the thumbs in his ears and all for a fully year since the murder. He has processed nothing and now begins slowly.

 

[04009margaret]

I agree. Look at Masipa's face after OPs breakdown at 16.42 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmadaSpdQdI&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g she plonks her pen down and her face says it all. She adjourned immediately without consulting anyone.

She doesn't look to me like she is going to allow this situation to continue

She's glaring at his sisters emotional outburst

 

[TorisMom003]

I caught the ladder comment, covering all his options...These are his exact words "I was still scared to retreat because I wasn't sure if there was somebody on the ladder. I wasn't sure if there was somebody in the toilet" This was after pumping 4 shots into the toilet door.

I'm thinking either OP or someone in his camp reads here at WS. We had the same thing happen during the Casey Anthony trial. Jose would bring something up in court that was talked about here at WS. They were also caught looking at WS on a laptop during court.

 

[strydohj]

O: I opened the sliding doors. I placed two fans.....the large one on the balcony with back legs on door and placed small one between it

Now explaining he was using them to get insects out of the room., and how he drew curtains to stop them getting back in.

He had BLACKOUT curtains.

So this were one open the bathroom window to create a draft and not pull a vacuum in the room and suck the insect back in... Especially with the bedroom door closed.

 

[soozieqtips]

What do you mean lying about the gun charges?

You can find the details somewhere back in this thread.

 

[minor4th]

She's glaring at his sisters emotional outburst

Huh? I did not see this at all. I didn't hear his sisters audibly having an emotional outburst either.

 

[aa9511]

We definitely disagree on this. I've watched so many sociopaths and narcissists on the stand and without exception they reveal themselves so obviously to anyone watching them - although they believe they're putting on a good and convincing performance. Did not get that vibe AT ALL from OP.

I think this is a man in genuine pain. I think he knows he did wrong by shooting through the door when he did. I think he's very sorry he killed Reeva, and I would even venture a guess that he is prepared to spend some time in jail for it.

Maybe that's because he isn't a sociopath or maybe even a narcissist.

I believe he had a rash of anger which he couldn't control. Anger which had escalated during whatever argument they were having. Before he knew it, it was done. It had gone too far. It's still pre-meditated, IMO, b/c even though he was in a rash of anger, he still picked up the gun, walked to the door, and shot her.

I don't see him at all as a Jodi Arias type or a Scott Peterson type, etc.. Or Martin MacNeill, or countless others like that.

I do believe he is sorry for this whole situation. And if he could do it all over again, he would do things much differently and Reeva would still be alive.

The difference b/w him and the others like what you mentioned, is that the only thing those types regret is that they got caught. For example, they would still have liked for the other person to be dead, just maybe in some other way so that they wouldn't have gotten caught. YKWIM?

I believe Oscar does not want Reeva to be dead. He wishes he could hit a "rewind" button and have the whole thing never happen.

So that is the difference, IMO.

But that doesn't mean that Oscar's fist priority right now is not Oscar. In fact, that is what makes most sense to me. He is in a fight for his freedom.

When he steps into the courtroom every day, IMO, that is his focus and that is his goal. I don't think he has that much energy/concentration/focus right now to be so incredibly focused on both Reeva and himself.

Meaning - yes, I believe he has cried a lot about this in private. Wishing it had never happened. Wishing he had just make different choices that night.

But when he comes into the courtroom - his whole focus is on himself. And in the recent months leading up to court, he has probably been practicing his "lines," practicing his "story," etc..

I don't think it's genuine what he's showing in court. I think he has thought about a certain image he wants to portray to the judge. He wants to portray that he is weak, that he is scared, that he has become so emotionally-distraught by all of this that he cannot possibly think of anything else and cannot possibly formulate any story or lines or lies. That he is just barely stringing himself along.

That's why the crying, comiting, etc., suddenly comes on during certain CUE moments, like discussion of Reeva's dead body, discussion of first finding her after he killed her, etc..

JMO.

 

[04009margaret]

@ 9:50 in the following video:

"......And, um, at that point the first thing I thought was that maybe she got down onto the floor like I'd told her to, maybe she's just scared....."

Now why in the world did he not include that tidbit into his bail application statement? Perhaps because like most of his testimony today he talked it over with his lawyers, after the State wrapped up their CIC, and made things fit as to what the witnesses testified to and what sounded better instead of his crap of a story he told before? Really was pathetic to hear the lies that he told in his testimony today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmadaSpdQdI&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g

MOO

Good catch. I didn't pick that up at the time, prior to that he told the court he whispered for her to call the police.....major trip up there

 

[LaLaw2000]

His attorneys need to reign him in, or mi lady (or Nel) need to object to leaving early. Give him a 15 minute break to change and clean up his vomit bucket. If not, he will do this everyday.

I'm trying to think of a defendant who behaved this way before, but I just can't.

MOO

Mel

Hi, Mel!

I came to this case late but have been watching from the archives. I caught the trial live today and yesterday.

WTH!! Here in the USA, the judge would call a short recess to let the witness collect himself or herself. The judge did call a halt, but just yesterday the trial stopped early because poor Oscar was 'exhausted' from lack of sleep even though he has medication to help him sleep. It seems to me the judge is too 'humoring' toward Roux and little Oscar. Now today, Oscar has a crying, wailing jag. Even Nel stated yesterday it was okay with him if court recessed early as long as it didn't become a daily occurrence. Between today and yesterday, much time has been lost because of Oscar.

If I were Nel, I'd ask the judge for a short break every time Oscar vomited or had a crying jag. When that judge has to be up and down like a pop tart maybe she will have a little conference with Roux and tell him he has to control his client.

I'm sorry, but this judge seems very timid and very willing to do just as Roux wants her to. If I were Reeva's mother or family, I would be complaining to high heaven about Oscar's theatrics. It's totally unfair to allow him to continue with his emotional displays. Man up, Oscar!

YES, Oscar is sorry he shot Reeva because it has ruined his life. Those may be real tears but they are for himself, IMO.

Little Oscar never grew up or into a man, IMO. He is too accustomed to having his way and getting too much sympathy. He has lived with his disability from the time he was a baby. His disability has now made him a lot of money.

My sympathy is with the military men and women who have had their legs and/or arms blown off defending our country. Certainly not with someone whose disability from birth has made him a wealthy man. Albeit Roux now has Oscar's money!

*I should post more often because when I do post, my posts are too long. Forgive me, BOOs!!!!

MOO

 

[aa9511]

Just listened to the audio myself and also found it incredibly sad.

A few points, I don't know why everyone seems to think he was trying to push the blame on Reeva for not locking up, he was merely stating in detail what happend...although his affidavit was more detailed than the norm, his testimony, to me, seems to be filling in the blanks. It actually answers the reason why he was asleep with the door open as everyone has been questioning this very thing for months.

I now don't believe she was in the loo when OP came down the passage, I think she was outside in the bathroom and only rushed and locked herself in there when she heard OP screaming about an intruder. There is no way she could have known he thought she was infact the intruder.

According to OP...Before shots were fired, he was shouting/screaming a lot...comming down the passage and in the actual bathroom standing in front of the door so it does not surprise me the neighbours heard so much shouting etc.. (Remains to be seem if he indeed does scream like a girl while under duress) I honestly don't think we can dispute the fact that if Reeva indeed did scream out after she was shot, that OP would have heard it...firing 4 shots in a confined space would most certainly render someone temporarily deaf.

IMO, he hasn't majorly contradicted himself in any way, maybe minor details that at the time seemed insignificant in his affidavit but now changed due to time to think about what happened clearly or remembering details as the year has passed, who knows.

So far, I'm still ok with my stance on this matter, however, it could very well change when Nell does his cross. I'm absolutely certain that if he could go back and change what happend he would and more than likely questions himself on a daily basis as to why he didn't do this, or do that..check if Reeva was in the bed..wait for a response when he whispered to her..list is endless.

He has also had the benefit of listening to all evidence/witnesses against him. So yes kind of easier to "fill in the blanks" that way.

Such as, oh yikes they heard Reeva screaming - so I better say I was screamin' and hollerin'.

 

[minor4th]

Maybe that's because he isn't a sociopath or maybe even a narcissist.

I believe he had a rash of anger which he couldn't control. Anger which had escalated during whatever argument they were having. Before he knew it, it was done. It had gone too far. It's still pre-meditated, IMO, b/c even though he was in a rash of anger, he still picked up the gun, walked to the door, and shot her.

I don't see him at all as a Jodi Arias type or a Scott Peterson type, etc.. Or Martin MacNeill, or countless others like that.

I do believe he is sorry for this whole situation. And if he could do it all over again, he would do things much differently and Reeva would still be alive.

The difference b/w him and the others like what you mentioned, is that the only thing those types regret is that they got caught. For example, they would still have liked for the other person to be dead, just maybe in some other way so that they wouldn't have gotten caught. YKWIM?

I believe Oscar does not want Reeva to be dead. He wishes he could hit a "rewind" button and have the whole thing never happen.

So that is the difference, IMO.

But that doesn't mean that Oscar's fist priority right now is not Oscar. In fact, that is what makes most sense to me. He is in a fight for his freedom.

When he steps into the courtroom every day, IMO, that is his focus and that is his goal. I don't think he has that much energy/concentration/focus right now to be so incredibly focused on both Reeva and himself.

Meaning - yes, I believe he has cried a lot about this in private. Wishing it had never happened. Wishing he had just make different choices that night.

But when he comes into the courtroom - his whole focus is on himself. And in the recent months leading up to court, he has probably been practicing his "lines," practicing his "story," etc..

I don't think it's genuine what he's showing in court. I think he has thought about a certain image he wants to portray to the judge. He wants to portray that he is weak, that he is scared, that he has become so emotionally-distraught by all of this that he cannot possibly think of anything else and cannot possibly formulate any story or lines or lies. That he is just barely stringing himself along.

That's why the crying, comiting, etc., suddenly comes on during certain CUE moments, like discussion of Reeva's dead body, discussion of first finding her after he killed her, etc..

JMO.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There's no way to know exactly what is going through his mind but to me the crying and wailing indicate genuine emotional pain. It's likely a combination of remorse, regret, fear, depression, and all the emotions that have been building for the last year.

To suggest that it is staged is ridiculous IMO. To question what he's really crying about is a more reasonable question - and none of us know the answer to that question.

IMO Oscar is still deeply depressed and emotionally unstable (seems obvious, right?). I do not think he is in very good control over his emotions, certainly not enough to plan to cry at certain points. I think he wishes to avoid thinking about it and dealing with it at all and it is all very overwhelming.

 

[Britlaws]

She's glaring at his sisters emotional outburst

I agree but it is also IMO demonstrates her frustration at the whole situation. I think she may make a statement at the beginning of tomorrows proceedings.

I actually think OP's family are being very disrespectful to the Steenkamps, who have acted with absolute dignity throughout this ordeal. They are living this nightmare for the umpteenth time today, yet sit quietly, stifling their emotions. OP's family sitting there crying all the time, with their 'devastated' expressions - if the Steenkamps can keep it together, why can't they? or why can't they simply leave the courtroom?

 

[DebinGA]

I didn't watch or listen, just followed the trial here today. Please correct my understanding that:

OP claimed RS was fully awake when he awoke and went for fans.
OP spoke to her.
OP heard the bathroom noise.
*OP whispered to RS to get down on the floor.
*OP whispered to RS to call police
OP grabbed gun and headed toward the bathroom.

No mention of RS saying a word in response at any time?

 

[soozieqtips]

Hi, Mel!

I came to this case late but have been watching from the archives. I caught the trial live today and yesterday.

WTH!! Here in the USA, the judge would call a short recess to let the witness collect himself or herself. The judge did call a halt, but just yesterday the trial stopped early because poor Oscar was 'exhausted' from lack of sleep even though he has medication to help him sleep. It seems to me the judge is too 'humoring' toward Roux and little Oscar. Now today, Oscar has a crying, wailing jag. Even Nel stated yesterday it was okay with him if court recessed early as long as it didn't become a daily occurrence. Between today and yesterday, much time has been lost because of Oscar.

If I were Nel, I'd ask the judge for a short break every time Oscar vomited or had a crying jag. When that judge has to be up and down like a pop tart maybe she will have a little conference with Roux and tell him he has to control his client.

I'm sorry, but this judge seems very timid and very willing to do just as Roux wants her to. If I were Reeva's mother or family, I would be complaining to high heaven about Oscar's theatrics. It's totally unfair to allow him to continue with his emotional displays. Man up, Oscar!

YES, Oscar is sorry he shot Reeva because it has ruined his life. Those may be real tears but they are for himself, IMO.

Little Oscar never grew up or into a man, IMO. He is too accustomed to having his way and getting too much sympathy. He has lived with his disability from the time he was a baby. His disability has now made him a lot of money.

My sympathy is with the military men and women who have had their legs and/or arms blown off defending our country. Certainly not with someone whose disability from birth has made him a wealthy man. Albeit Roux now has Oscar's money!

*I should post more often because when I do post, my posts are too long. Forgive me, BOOs!!!!

MOO

Fantastic post and agree with everything you said.