Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

[katydid23]

I feel bad for him. He is clearly suffering.

That doesn't diminish the sorrow I feel for Reeva ...these are not mutually exclusive.

Of course he is suffering. He is facing prison time. His life is in shambles. But the question still remains, did he know who was behind the bathroom door before he shot? His visible sorrow now, does not negate the possibility that he shot through that door in a rage.

 

[minor4th]

He did show a great deal of emotion. But his initial emotional testimony was all about HIMSELF. HE had nightmares, kept smelling blood, couldn't sleep, etc etc. Poor Oscar. :violin:



I think that was what put me off so much. His initial apology could have been more Reeva oriented. It could have been one in which he took the blame and held himself accountable. But he appears to be throwing everyone else, including Reeva herself, under the bus. If she had only closed the doors like he asked her to do before she fell asleep, he wouldn't have had to shoot her?

So none of that indicates he is lying about what happened that night.

No he does not at all appear to be throwing anyone under the bus - he has acknowledged what he did and what led to it. To me it does not at all come across as trying to shift blame or escape responsibility. In fact, just the opposite - he seems to FEEL very guilty!

This trial is about him. Of course his testimony is going to be about him and his actions and his beliefs and perceptions. That's why we're having this trial. It's not a memorial or tribute to Reeva; there's going to be no evidence about whether Reeva deserved to die because everyone agrees she didn't!

 

[james83]

So he claims he went into the bathroom shouting and thats when Reeva slamed the toilet door shut?.
Ridiculous.

 

[minor4th]

Of course he is suffering. He is facing prison time. His life is in shambles. But the question still remains, did he know who was behind the bathroom door before he shot? His visible sorrow now, does not negate the possibility that he shot through that door in a rage.

I think his emotion lends a great deal of credibility to his account. There's simply no evidence that he intended to kill Reeva or flew into a rage at 3:00 a.m. and killed Reeva as a result.

I know that many really want his story to be false; they want him to be guilty; they don't want this to be a tragic and irreparable accident. But the evidence is just not there.

Oscar's testimony seemed truthful.

 

[curiousjo]

So, looks like OP forgot about the argument that lasted over an hour @2-3 AM!

 

[minor4th]

So, looks like OP forgot about the argument that lasted over an hour @2-3 AM!

Because it didn't happen

 

[patCee]

Perhaps that is because most adults do it in private. Coming unexpectedly across my fiancé dead of a heart attack, I let out blood curdling screams, I cursed at God and I screamed words that I am ashamed at to this day - and I believe all the neighbors heard as it was spring and the windows were open. FOR DAYS AND NIGHTS afterwards they heard me in my neighborhood doing the same thing. I've never screamed so loud and long and talking/screaming before or since..... for days and nights. NOTE: If you have a friend who has a death of a close one, do NOT let them be alone

But you are VERY on target for one thing, I was protesting his death, and wanted to be comforted - but it was beyond reach. .......ok, enough of that and back to Reva.

Yeah, within his testimony he's reaching out to ONE PERSON to identify with him perhaps (therefore the strange reference to the Israeli dance/judiasm?...gotta get religion in there)

Thank you for your post and sharing your own sad loss.

You use capitals in your last point, but I'm not sure who you think OP is reaching out to. Do you mean in a religious sense?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I cannot believe it. I have to go out tomorrow 45 minutes after court opens and I cannot get back before it finishes . What a day to miss.

:tantrum: :anguish:

 

[soozieqtips]

Does it mean that if she was not breathing that she was in fact dead? Or can one be not breathing but still with a heart beat?

Well, if she was 'slumped over, but still alive' as he said last year, why didn't he get medical help instead of wasting time sitting with her for 'I don't know how long' while her life ebbed away? But changing his words to 'She wasn't breathing' indicates he thinks she's already dead, so can sit with her for as long as he likes because there's nothing he (or anyone) can do to save her. I think his change of phrasing is significant, but I could be wrong.

1. "She's still alive"

2. "She wasn't breathing"

One sounds a lot more positive than the other.

 

[Insp.Dots]

So not many hearts or minds have been changed by Oscar's testimony. I suspect that those who already found him guilty would be smearing him no matter how he came across on the stand.

If he was robotic and unemotional he would be said to be uncaring and uninterested. He shows a great deal of emotion and it's labeled a self serving act. There's no way for him to be seen as anything other than GUILTY by those who have pre-judged him so - irrespective of the facts and evidence. IMO

I thought his testimony gave more insight into his thinking that night and the sorrow he feels about his actions. One thing that came across clearly in his testimony is that it was fear that motivated him to shoot and not bravado.

All his crying and emotion will not alter the facts or move him from guilty to not guilty - I can't imagine it will have any impact on the verdict other than it gives the judge something by which to judge his credibility. If she believes he is genuine, she will unlikely convict him of premeditated murder .. He is not behaving like a man who intended to kill his girlfriend. But I think the state failed to present a convincing case for premeditated murder anyway.

His remorse and strong emotion will certainly play a role in sentencing if he is found guilty of culpable homicide.

Spot on as always IMHO. I expected him to have to be prompted into speaking a lot more and say less. I suspect Roux may have been nervous that he was saying too much at times!
I agree, it will make little difference to the overall verdict. He's not a shining example of a cold blooded murderer IMO......I think his immaturity that some say, comes from always being 'poor little Oscar' to his siblings and some Family who rush to his side and over-protect. He's never needed to 'man up' as there's always someone rushing to the rescue. There is no doubt he is an amazing athlete and has overcome his disabilities, but in the witness box today, he just looked/sounded like a scared little boy!

And for those wanting to hear proof of the man screaming/crying like a woman.....you may well get your wish when Nel cross examines, no expert needed! :truce:

 

[Carol70]

So he claims he went into the bathroom shouting and thats when Reeva slamed the toilet door shut?.
Ridiculous.

Umm nope, he claims he was still in the passage shouting to Reeva about the intruder when he heard the loo door slam. He wasn't in the actual bathroom yet.

 

[jay-jay]

From the first half of testimony that I've seen so far, his explanation of the night felt very odd and disconnected to me.

For two young people just getting in to the prime of their relationship, on the eve of Valentine's Day when your lover has just brought you a sweet gift... he seemed distant in the way he described their interaction.

Other than being at the dinner table for 45 min or so and laying in bed while Reeva played on her iPad and Oscar was falling asleep around 9pm or 10pm, there seemed to be very little interaction between them that night. At least that's how he described it. In my opinion, he is leaving out vast chunks of what they really did.

Totally agree with all this .. I mentioned further upthread that it sounds more like a relationship between a couple who have been married for years, not a couple in the first throws of a relationship and where you can't wait to get into bed/spend half your time in bed with each other. It's all very peculiar .. the reason being that, as you say, large chunks have been missed out!

 

[soozieqtips]

I cannot believe it. I have to go out tomorrow 45 minutes after court opens and I cannot get back before it finishes . What a day to miss.

:tantrum: :anguish:

Oh noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

 

[jay-jay]

I agree that I personally wouldn't want his money but I think
would probably take it and use it to set up a charitable foundation in memory of my loved one .
Rather a charity have it than a let a murderer keep it .
What ever Reeva's parents choose to do is fine because they have the right to do as they please

Would it go towards paying their legal fees, I wonder? (I've no idea who is currently paying for them, but they certainly shouldn't have to, it should be OP)

 

[HauntsForHope]

So, what are the actual charges? Is it like in the US; Murder 1 Murder 2 etc..?

"Premeditation refers to thoughts, plans, and ideas that a person has of committing a crime before she does it. Heat of passion is used to dispute the fact that a person had intentions to commit the crime before she was in the situation where the crime was committed. It is also used to argue that a person’s actions were impulsive and that there were not any moments when she stopped to reflect on her decisions. Consider, for example, a case where a wife killed her husband when she entered a room and caught him engaged in adultery."

 

[jay-jay]

But the door was opening to the outside?????

Ooooh!

:jail:

 

[soozieqtips]

I think his emotion lends a great deal of credibility to his account. There's simply no evidence that he intended to kill Reeva or flew into a rage at 3:00 a.m. and killed Reeva as a result.

I know that many really want his story to be false; they want him to be guilty; they don't want this to be a tragic and irreparable accident. But the evidence is just not there.

Oscar's testimony seemed truthful.

Nel thinks differently.

 

[DebinGA]

Umm nope, he claims he was still in the passage shouting to Reeva about the intruder when he heard the loo door slam. He wasn't in the actual bathroom yet.

I thought today OP was whispering to RS... to get down on the floor... to call police ... and only then did he approach the passage. He didn't say he'd mentioned the word "intruder" to her too, but surely he did. What he didn't do was notice she hadn't made any response to his commands before bravely venturing forth to face the intruders.

 

[Carol70]

I'm off folks, have a awesome evening where ever you are in the world...let's hope tomorrow brings us more answers I have a feeling we won't be seeing Nel tomorrow as I still think Roux has got quite abit more to cover with OP.

 

[Fuskier]

I feel bad for him. He is clearly suffering.

That doesn't diminish the sorrow I feel for Reeva ...these are not mutually exclusive.

Just watched OP's grief laden, tearful testimony at the Trial. What are we being presented with?
IMO we are being presented with his POST EVENT grief for what he has done. Some may be for himself as he is called to account for what he had done. However, IMO the court needs to separate PRE EVENT feeling and intent from POST EVENT feelings of regret.