Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[Cherwell]

I never understood why the bedroom door had to be locked either but now realise it has to be locked because no escape route gives him justification to shoot.

He's the one who locked it, so he could have unlocked it.

 

[kaos]

i have never worked this one out. is it left side as you look from the end of the bed, or left side as you are in the bed [face up/or face down]

would be much clearer if they referred to either the window side of the bed, or the bathroom side of the bed. imo

I think when the guy who took the pictures of the duvet cover etc was on the stand it was stated that it was as you were looking from the end of the bed.

 

[Dr Mattus]

Thank you Mr. Nel!

'My life is on the line.'

'But Reeva doesn't have a life anymore. Stop thinking of the implications to you!'

I thought Nel missed an opportunity there. The correct response would be "Mr Pistorius, it seems that whenever you are caught out in the wrong you would have us believe your life was in jeopardy!"

 

[soozieqtips]

I know that, we all do. But that is what he said! Seriously.

I was just confirming we were still referring to right side as balcony side because it's often been confused with the other side. OP is going to have do some serious praying tonight :floorlaugh:

 

[AlwaysShocked]

So the reason for the change from he went out onto the deck to retrieve the fans to he did not go out onto the fan was to cover the story of him hearing the window slide open? Hmmmm.... Did the Bail Hearing "version" mention him hearing the window slide open or is that new?

And now that he puts himself in the room the whole time, messing with the fans, closing the door and the blinds, how does he now explain not seeing Reva get up and leave the bedroom?

Even though I've been watching, I seem to have missed this.

 

[Viper]

I never understood why the bedroom door had to be locked either but now realise it has to be locked because no escape route gives him justification to shoot.

OP took the "locked bedroom door" thing out of the fairy tail. The bedroom doors had been broken through THAT NIGHT while he ran upstairs to get Reeva's purse; OP says he had to break them open because they got stuck from absorbing humidity. :floorlaugh: So his plea explanation does not include the "felt trapped, locked in my room" stuff.

 

[nastasya]

Nit picking and trying to get OP to say something he has NEVER said... just so Nel can say "Aha! You could not hear a noise from out on the balcony" When OP never said he could ( and Nel has no idea what you can or can't hear from the balcony anyway) is a complete waste of time... no matter how many times Nel asks it.

The fact is that the State contention about the shots being at 3:17 is impossible... their case is already toast.
[modsnip]

Dead body.

Admitted killer.

Multiple witnesses.

Killer committed perjury when he knowingly signed a false, self-serving affidavit.

Killer creating multiple "versions" of what happened to fit current facts.

State's case is not what is toast.

 

[luvmygarden]

WTH?

OP is talking about the case like he's a disinterested, third party. Nothing to do with him. And he sounds a bit like a lawyer? He is not answering the question, just reading something.

Judge asks for line number from where he is reading.

Maybe attended too many BS sessions with his attorneys and now is relating conversations as fact. My 1st impression awhile ago was OP was competitive and smart, now I will go with just competitive and a liar. Both traits have worked well for him over the past few years.

 

[soozieqtips]

So the reason for the change from he went out onto the deck to retrieve the fans to he did not go out onto the fan was to cover the story of him hearing the window slide open? Hmmmm.... Did the Bail Hearing "version" mention him hearing the window slide open or is that new?

And now that he puts himself in the room the whole time, messing with the fans, closing the door and the blinds, how does he now explain not seeing Reva get up and leave the bedroom?

Even though I've been watching, I seem to have missed this.

He never mentioned a door 'slam' before either. The bedroom scene should be recreated in court (as it's small) to show how hard it would have been for him not to have seen Reeva getting out of bed and walking to the toilet when he was only inches away from her.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Moving items that are not germaine to an investigation in order to take photos of things that are does not equal tampering with evidence. Crime scene investigators move things all the time. It is not a big deal when it has no bearing on the evidence that proves or disproves guilt.

Even the boo boo with the guy handling the gun without gloves didn't change anything in this particular case. The position of the fans has nothing to do with guilt in this case.

All this talk of "tampering and contamination" is a red herring put forth by the defense as a distraction. The position of the cricket bat, the position of cell phones, etc. have no real bearing on anything in this case.

Tomorrow will be interesting. I am sure Nels has a plan for drawing the information to support premeditation out of OP. Now that he has had today to see what he's dealing with. Nels has years of experience with witnesses. Both those that talk too much and not enough, I'm sure. I would think those who talk too much make it easier to get what you want as a Prosecutor.

I DO agree that tampering, movement doesn't mean that none of it is safe. BUT,
The point I personally was making was it should NEVER have happened-end of. When that gun was touched without gloves it immediately put the case at risk, what if there had been another gun found. The investigation team's job IS to secure the scene and record evidence. Also, when something is moved it (by law) has to be recorded. That is BASIC common sense policing.
I am not defending OP by saying that, I am only interested in Justice being done. Those policeman risked that and the State know it as well as the defence!

I think OP needs to leave the arguing to future witnesses and Roux... He should be saying the bear minimum and truth in answering the questions....he still seems intent on blaming everyone else and will not help himself. And it is a bit like the first state witness not conceding, "Thou doth protest too much." IMO

 

[kaos]

He's the one who locked it, so he could have unlocked it.

Yes, but I'd be willing to bet if it was crucial to his case that it being pitch black would have meant he didn't have time to unlock the darned door so he had to shoot.

He's going to have to negate all escape options to justify him running towards the 'intruder' with a gun.

 

[minor4th]

Ugh, just started listening to the cross examination. First question and he already sounds defensive

 

[steveml]

i have never worked this one out. is it left side as you look from the end of the bed, or left side as you are in the bed [face up/or face down]

would be much clearer if they referred to either the window side of the bed, or the bathroom side of the bed. imo

Totally agree, it can't be described in one word.

There should be a single dictionary word for each side of the bed (from the position of facing the headboard).

Collins, Oxford, etc. missed a trick there.

:smile:

 

[soozieqtips]

He could be an MP here in the UK. They never answer 'yes' or 'no' either, but instead waffle on mindlessly till everyone's eyes glaze over and no one remembers what the question was.

 

[kaos]

OP took the "locked bedroom door" thing out of the fairy tail. The bedroom doors had been broken through THAT NIGHT while he ran upstairs to get Reeva's purse; OP says he had to break them open because they got stuck from absorbing humidity. :floorlaugh: So his plea explanation does not include the "felt trapped, locked in my room" stuff.

Thanks for that, I must have missed that bit :blushing:

 

[Interested Bystander]

By OP's mentioning "hot night" was he saying the fans were running when he heard the noise in the bathroom?

It might help if they brought the fans into court and listened to the noise they make and what can be heard if one is standing within 3-4 feet of it. After all they have produced the door and the cricket bat.

 

[minor4th]

So did the state get to play the video for the judge or not?

 

[04009margaret]

Just heard on Oscar radio that Harry Nel & OP have encountered each other previously on the same firing range that was shown in court today lol

 

[nastasya]

I think Nel is showing signs of being a bully.

Good.

Without "bullies" to stop them, lying weasly punk murderers could get away with shooting their girlfriends any time they felt like it.

 

[kaos]

He never mentioned a door 'slam' before either. The bedroom scene should be recreated in court (as it's small) to show how hard it would have been for him not to have seen Reeva getting out of bed and walking to the toilet when he was only inches away from her.

Roux's team must have realised a window sliding open wouldn't have created noise he could have heard at the balcony doors so the noise had to be louder.