Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[minor4th]

Nel: In your plea explanation, you referred to this incident as 'an accident.' Is that correct?

OP: That's correct, M'lady.

Nel: What was the accident?

OP: The accident was that I discharged my firearm in the belief that an intruder was coming out to attack me, M'lady.

Nel: So the discharge wasn't accidental or was the discharge accidental?

OP: The discharge was accidental, M'lady, I believed that somebody was coming out ..I believed the noise I heard inside the toilet was somebody coming out to attack me or to take my life.

Nel: Do you know what an accidental discharge is?

OP goes on to explain that he never intended to discharge his firearm and that he never intended to shoot anyone!!!!

For sure he's hedging - that is just a stupid thing to say.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I'm not seeing Helpless Disabled Man. I'm seeing able-bodied, can do anything anyone else can, until its in my best interest to be Helpless Disabled Man. But I'm hardly impartial.

I agree wholeheartedly he isn't the brightest crayon in the box which surprised me a lot. I expected him to be savvy and he really isn't. I do hope Roux reiterates it isn't good to simply regurgitate defense talking points repeatedly.

Totally respect your view and everyone else's. As someone stated yesterday, we all use different life experiences and knowledge when searching for the truth. I think on the whole that is a good thing.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for him and he needs to face the consequences as Reeva's loved ones have to.

I just think him appearing able bodied and feeling able bodied are 2 different things. And whether we like it or not, it does make a difference.

I do think if I had met him as kid he would possibly have infuriated me, his Mum and Family have done there best for him.
But he has been blatantly fussed over, we see that from his sister and the inability to brush his teeth without prompting!!! :facepalm:

 

[soozieqtips]

Could be. But why change it from went out on the balcony to say he only went to the balcony? If it was a fabrication in the first place, why not just stick with the fabrication as he initially told it?

Viper already answered that in his response to you.

BTW I can only deduce that after giving it great consideration his team recognized that if he was on the balcony light would illuminate the bedroom, so he must have been able to see Reeva missing. Hence the change to the fairy tale.

 

[04009margaret]

That makes sense and so did not moving her from the floor where she was left. It was just emotion-jarring for me at the time which is why I remember the testimony as vividly as I do.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Very first rule of first aide, protect yourself

 

[TorisMom003]

The reason why there is no call to Netcare on Reeva's phone that morning is not because OP couldn't get the phone unlocked, it's because OP didn't try to call Netcare first that morning. He called Stander.

He also lied about what he said to Stander during his bail application statement, according to todays testimony. He told Stander he needed help moving Reeva, NOT to call for an ambulance.

 

[Viper]

No, he doesn't repudiate much of his bail affidavit.

BIB Yes. He. Does.

re·pu·di·ate
riˈpyo͞odēˌāt/
verb
1.
refuse to accept or be associated with.
"she has repudiated policies associated with previous party leaders"
synonyms: reject, renounce, abandon, give up, turn one's back on, disown, cast off, lay aside; More

:facepalm:

 

[jay-jay]

Ah, did he add that in to "explain" his unexplainable sudden trip upstairs? I don't remember Dr. Stipp saying anything about rope in regards to Oscar suddenly hot-footing it upstairs.

The trip upstairs was because the paramedics asked OP if he could get Reeva's ID for them .. a couple of posters here have verified that is standard procedure in SA.

 

[04009margaret]

I'm listening again because I didn't hear him say his gun went off accidentally

The judge heard it & even wrote it down

 

[DebinGA]

Could be. But why change it from went out on the balcony to say he only went to the balcony? If it was a fabrication in the first place, why not just stick with the fabrication as he initially told it?

I'd like to know that too, because yesterday's version is much worse for him imo.

 

[minor4th]

BIB Yes. He. Does.

re·pu·di·ate
riˈpyo͞odēˌāt/
verb
1.
refuse to accept or be associated with.
"she has repudiated policies associated with previous party leaders"
synonyms: reject, renounce, abandon, give up, turn one's back on, disown, cast off, lay aside; More

:facepalm:

I disagree

 

[MsY]

Haven't been able to watch since lunch break, so catching up now
Did hear some parts where Nel was taking OP on via http://www.702.co.za/shows/oscar_stream.asp

IMO, Nel wanted OP to confirm he was not on the balcony. Therefore, it would be just about impossible to miss Reeva getting up to go to the toilet. I am just speculating here.

Great point that!

Or TA's were, as well as the photo shoot ones of JA.:sick:

Went to look at TA ones again a short while ago and was shocked to see all the new ones that I don't remember ever being showed during the trial. Can be mistaken.

 

[minor4th]

The judge heard it & even wrote it down

Yes, I guess I wasn't paying close attention the first time around.

He did say it was accidental. He goes on later to explain that yes he pulled the trigger but he did it without actually forming the thought or intent to kill someone in the bathroom.

 

[TorisMom003]

Hold up, I just heard something that hasn't been mentioned yet.

OP is describing getting Reeva's purse from upstairs, he hands it to Ms. Stander, then he AND Ms. Stander go downstairs together.

Now why would Ms. Stander need to go upstairs with OP? My mind keeps going back to her being a lawyer.

 

[soozieqtips]

I disagree

You disagree that he's disowned part of his affidavit by saying he wasn't there when it was written and didn't know how his words had been 'interpreted' and that's why it's not accurate?

 

[DebinGA]

Yes, I guess I wasn't paying close attention the first time around.

He did say it was accidental. He goes on later to explain that yes he pulled the trigger but he did it without actually forming the thought or intent to kill someone in the bathroom.

That might work for someone like me who's never fired a gun, but for OP? No, especially given the ammo he chose to load it with.

 

[minor4th]

You disagree that he's disowned part of his affidavit by saying he wasn't there when it was written and didn't know how his words had been 'interpreted' and that's why it's not accurate?

I disagree that he has "repudiated much of his bail affidavit"

 

[BritsKate]

Totally respect your view and everyone else's. As someone stated yesterday, we all use different life experiences and knowledge when searching for the truth. I think on the whole that is a good thing.



I don't have a lot of sympathy for him and he needs to face the consequences as Reeva's loved ones have to.



I just think him appearing able bodied and feeling able bodied are 2 different things. And whether we like it or not, it does make a difference.



I do think if I had met him as kid he would possibly have infuriated me, his Mum and Family have done there best for him.

But he has been blatantly fussed over, we see that from his sister and the inability to brush his teeth without prompting!!! :facepalm:

And acting able-bodied would be another. My husband, largely immobile, would just never confront an intruder. He'd rely on getting one of the able-bodied people out of the house to secure help as quickly as possible. The reality of his disability is that he would have to rely on someone else to help him.



Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[04009margaret]

Emergency calls are free in SA.

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Travel-g293740-s603/South-Africa:Emergencies.html

"The nationwide emergency phone number for the ambulance service is 10177 - you will not need to dial an area code. Ambulance services are run by both the provincial health departments as well as private companies. The largest private emergency response company is Netcare911. They will respond to emergencies whether you are a member or not and their number is 082 911. Go to The Netcare911 website for more information: www.netcare911.co.za
The mobile phone companies have their own emergency numbers which can be dialed even if the phone is out of credit or locked:
The number for Cell C is 084 -140
The number for Vodacom is 082 - 147
The number for MTN is 083 - 112
However, the standard GSM emergency number (112) number should work on all mobile phone providers, regardless of whether or not the phone has credit."


Maybe if you have just blown your lover's brains out the free emergency number will not spring to mind?

:banghead:

Was that the number he kept getting wrong today & had to be corrected by Roux?

 

[minor4th]

That might work for someone like me who's never fired a gun, but for OP? No, especially given the ammo he chose to load it with.

I think it was a stupid thing to say. I read it as him being guarded and trying to make himself look better to the judge - but it likely had the opposite effect.

 

[nastasya]

BIB Absolutely! That lie was used to explain why he did not see Reeva leave the bed and go in to the bathroom. That is very significant. That he changed it is also significant! And he is paying the price for that right now.

BTW I can only deduce that after giving it great consideration his team recognized that if he was on the balcony light would illuminate the bedroom, so he must have been able to see Reeva missing. Hence the change to the fairy tale.

I think the change in the fairy tale came from a role-playing mock cross-examination:

Nel: "You went to the balcony to get fans. Then you heard somebody in the bathroom?"

Killer: "Yes."

Nel: "Why would you immediately assume it was Mr. Intruder before checking to see if it was Reeva who just got up to pee?"

Killer: "Um.... Roux told me to say that.... I told him that sounded stupid, even by my standards!"

vs.

Killer: "It had to be an intruder. I was in the bedroom the entire time. I must not have noticed Reeva getting up to pee while I was picking up the jeans to cover the LEDs that would have allowed me to see Reeva in bed but since I covered the LEDs up with the pants that somehow ended up on the sidewalk below the bathroom window I couldn't see that Reeva had left the bed."