Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[ShadyLady]

Yes, his answers are very telling.

The restaurant shooting is very strange. Injuring the other athletes lower leg is frightening in it's implications.

I wonder, too. Intentional??? To cripple another athletic?

And I am still waiting for an explanation of blood on headboard, did I miss it?

 

[nastasya]

Understandably so. If he was so fearful, believing it to be an intruder, he shot in auto pilot mode. I understand what Oscar's saying. I think Nel does too.

How can it be "autopilot" if he's never shot at anybody before?

Who programmed his "autopilot"?

On the contrary, there hasn't been one bit of evidence that shows the killer was ever fearful.

What's more likely is the killer's "autopilot" was to become angry, blame, and throw a tantrum to get his way. Reeva locking herself behind the toilet door with her phone made him getting his way a bit problematic, didn't it?

 

[soozieqtips]

I disagree with this. The so-called talking heads on MSM often do not know much of the story.

It could be re Henke, but I doubt it.
It has been stated that when OP was first gettting famous and rich, his father was his first manager, and allegedly stole from him. And the two hardly have had any contact since that time of circa 5 years ago.

Given all this, it is doubtful Henke would have a house key and access to safe. Indeed Henke would not do an affi for Pros on this issue.

BBM - That's the whole point. The analyst is saying that OP said he had no communication with his father, but for his father to be using OP's safe to store his ammo (OP stated this) then he'd have had to have had a key to OP's house and would be able to enter even when OP wasn't there - which she said was a glaring inconsistency in OP's story, ie, the 'no communication'.

 

[strydohj]

He had ammunition in a safe, which couldn't be fired.

If it's not illegal it's not illegal.

Where is this going?

Now he'll try the magazine instead - which wasn't even a charge.

Stick to the case Nel.

I happen to be illegal in SA to have ammo in your possession for a calibre you do not have a license for.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Does anyone know how long it was from the time Dr. Stipp left until the time the paramedics arrived?

Not sure on that but I do know from Dr Stipp's testimony that OP went upstairs on his own before the paramedics arrived which seems to contradict his own witness testimony .
He may have gone upstairs for a second time when the paramedics arrived to collect the bag .
I have no doubt we will be hearing more about this.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Interesting clip. The crime analyst said there was a narcissistic theme throughout, with OP solely focused on his needs within the relationship. He doesn't accept blame for anything that went wrong in the relationship, turning things around and placing any blame firmly at the feet of Reeva Steenkamp. He says his behaviour is triggered by her behaviour, when Reeva has already outlined in her messages that she is scared of him because she doesn't know how he's going to react to the things she does.
-----------------------------
What I took away from today is that OP has an aversion to admitting anything that portrays him as reckless or untrustworthy. Even when the proof is there (the gun HAD to have had the trigger pulled) he can't concede a thing.

a quick look at wiki, and some very pertinent traits appear listed under narcissism... amongst others:

Claiming to be an "expert" at many things

Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.


......
if this narcissistic tendency is the case with op [it certainly looks very like it], he got himself onto some very unsafe ground when looking into the mirror regularly alongside a beautiful model that everyone loved/admired/was drawn to/attracted attention.

 

[BritsKate]

I wonder, too. Intentional??? To cripple another athletic?



And I am still waiting for an explanation of blood on headboard, did I miss it?

And threatened to break Mark Batchelor's legs in a row. <- Soccer star. So some have wondered if its not related to a deeply embedded psych issue.

I don't know that we'll ever really know about the blood. I think it was there before the shooting myself but from the same night. No proof, just my theory.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[TorisMom003]

Has anyone read the lyrics for the song that Reeva was upset about? After reading them, I don't blame her for being upset. Part of the lyrics:

Look inside of my soul and you can find gold and maybe get rich
Look inside of your soul and you can find out it never exist

I can say that I like a challenge and you tell me it's painless
You don't know what pain is

I can feel the new people around me just want to be famous

 

[jay-jay]

Not sure on that but I do know from Dr Stipp's testimony that OP went upstairs on his own before the paramedics arrived which seems to contradict his own witness testimony .
He may have gone upstairs for a second time when the paramedics arrived to collect the bag .
I have no doubt we will be hearing more about this.

Thanks, Gb .. I was wondering about this too but I thought I must've been mistaken and got the timeline wrong .. another thing for me to investigate .. :scared:

.. it would be sooo much better to be able to read an actual transcript online somewhere .. it's not that easy trying to find what has actually been said once that moment has passed during the court case.

 

[aa9511]

Vaal now. Hope sp is right.

O: Get together with some friends

O: I don't remember much about the day...group of more or less 10 pple.

N: Whilst you did all that, where was your gun?

O: On my person

N: You took your gun on the water....why did you take your gun to a party?

O: I carried my firearm wherever I was. Only alternative to leave it in the car...I didn't want to leave it in the house when there was nobody there...

bbm

??????

 

[steveml]

So how do you roll? Bow-tha. Can't think of an English sound for the o...

I was pronouncing it just as Bow-tha. Similar to the cricketer Ian Botham (but without the 'm'). :smile:

 

[TorisMom003]

[/B]

bbm

??????

I know, right?

O: I carried my firearm wherever I was. Only alternative to leave it in the car...I didn't want to leave it in the house when there was nobody there...

So what the heck was he going to do with all of those guns that he had ordered? Take them all with him whenever he left the house?

 

[soozieqtips]

I was pronouncing it just as Bow-tha. Similar to the cricketer Ian Botham (but without the 'm'). :smile:

What's your opinion on OP not willing to concede the obvious - that he had to have pulled the trigger for the gun to have gone off in Tashas?

 

[04009margaret]

My husband walked into the room while OP was going back & forth about not having his finger on the trigger. He knows nothing about the trial & hasn't been following it. He stood there & listened for 10 minutes, walked out laughing & saying "what's wrong with that ******, he couldn't dig a bigger hole for himself if he tried"

 

[Viper]

I was pronouncing it just as Bow-tha. Similar to the cricketer Ian Botham (but without the 'm'). :smile:

Do you think WO Botha moved the fan to block the exit to the patio, or was it some other police officer(s)?

 

[04009margaret]

Well yesterday's Mirror was it, does say that Barry S will try to attend the trial soon.

I posted on that.Since he has had recent strokes, it is said that he is risking his life to do so. I personally hope he does not risk his life. Reeva would probably tell her beloved Dad not to risk his life. Of course, I am sure he would like to look Oscar in the eye...

Isn't that him that's been sitting next to June all this week

 

[soozieqtips]

Earlier Nel addressed another charge relating to an incident at a restaurant in Johannesburg in which a shot went off after a friend of the runner passed him a loaded gun under the table.

Pistorius insisted he did not have his finger on the trigger when the gun fired. The prosecutor noted that a police expert had testified that
the gun could not be fired without pulling the trigger, and sarcastically described the discharge as a "miracle".

Nel asked: "The gun went off by itself?"

Pistorius was adamant: "I know that my finger was not on the trigger."

Nel, incredulous, went on: "We have you in possession of the gun,
a shot went off, but you didn't discharge the gun."

Pistorius said: "I didn't pull the trigger. I didn't have time to think."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...admits-no-reason-fire-shots-killed-girlfriend

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Thanks, Gb .. I was wondering about this too but I thought I must've been mistaken and got the timeline wrong .. another thing for me to investigate .. :scared:

.. it would be sooo much better to be able to read an actual transcript online somewhere .. it's not that easy trying to find what has actually been said once that moment has passed during the court case.

That is what I have just been trying to do .
I am trying to find the part where mrs stipp's stated that the light in the toilet was much fainter than the light in the bathroom .
I think that is because it was Reeva's phone and she was probably trying to call for help .Another thing I noticed about Mrs stipp's evidence is that she noticed that the screaming was getting closer which is probably what Nel was referring to today .
Her testimony was given quite a way after all the other witness's who testified to screaming .She had clear times because of her digital clock .
Nel was keen for OP to confirm Reeva's phone was in the toilet so now the defence can say it was broken and it doesn't matter at all to her testimony (assuming I can find the exact wording again )
She also identified correctly a man screaming on a test night not a woman .
I keep reading things but the more I listen to Nel the more I realise he is on top of things .

 

[jay-jay]

Has anyone read the lyrics for the song that Reeva was upset about? After reading them, I don't blame her for being upset. Part of the lyrics:

Look inside of my soul and you can find gold and maybe get rich
Look inside of your soul and you can find out it never exist

I can say that I like a challenge and you tell me it's painless
You don't know what pain is

I can feel the new people around me just want to be famous

.. this music one is a bit of a difficult one because I usually like music for the music rather than the lyrics .. and maybe that was the case with OP that he just liked that type of music and didn't pay much attention to the lyric .. but, I do get why it was something which may have upset Reeva and why she referred to it in one of her messages. There is one track by The Prodigy that I always find has quite a lot of meaning too, now, which was one of my ex abusive partners favourites and that was 'Smack My B* tch Up' .. now I love the Prodigy and I love their music, but that one does tend to resonate a bit but because I like their music overall I tend not to listen to that particular one .. just saying that sometimes people don't really listen to the lyrics much, I know I don't and it was only after being in the relationship with ex that I really noticed those Prodigy lyrics.

.. disclaimer: not in any way supporting OP here!

 

[TorisMom003]

.. this music one is a bit of a difficult one because I usually like music for the music rather than the lyrics .. and maybe that was the case with OP that he just liked that type of music and didn't pay much attention to the lyric .. but, I do get why it was something which may have upset Reeva and why she referred to it in one of her messages. There is one track by The Prodigy that I always find has quite a lot of meaning too, now, which was one of my ex abusive partners favourites and that was 'Smack My B* tch Up' .. now I love the Prodigy and I love their music, but that one does tend to resonate a bit .. but just saying that sometimes people don't really listen to the lyrics much, I know I don't.

.. disclaimer: not in any way supporting OP here!

The title of the song itself says a lot. It is also enough to upset Reeva when OP was already upset with her. Biatch don't kill my vibe. Yea, that's a great song to play with your "beloved" girlfriend in the back seat when she knows that you are already ticked off at her and have let her know it.

ETA: I did actually listen to the song instead of just reading the lyrics. The lyrics are clear in what they say. You can pick out exactly what he is saying.

MOO