Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

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  • #1,381
Yes, if you knew he had the gun pointed at the door. But if you had no idea what was going on, you'd simply bolt the door and freeze in fear.

What was Reeva supposed to tell the police when she phoned them? OP never said in his version that he told Reeva there were intruders in the house. OP claims he yelled "Reeva phone police" and "get the f out of my house". So why wouldn't she ask him what the heck the problem was since his voice was coming towards her?
 
  • #1,382
Which points to OP's version of yelling to Reeva to phone police is a lie OR Reeva never had the phone with her in the toilet room like OP claimed she did which is also then a lie.

MOO

And it wasn't dark in the passage/bathroom as OP says it was. The light was ON.
 
  • #1,383
BBM: But if his "version" is true, he was quite close to her while he was hollering in the hallway. IMO it just isn't reasonable that you wouldn't respond. He didn't say "Reeva! An intruder! Call the police!" In his version, she wouldn't even know why he said to call police. Why wouldn't she yell "What?" or "Why!?" out from inside the toilet?

She was SILENT. In OP's version she was SILENT.


BIB

Well, that and he insists that since he didn't hear her scream, she didn't scream even when he fired, although she'd been well primed by that point, according to his own version.
 
  • #1,384
Whether Reeva was the one screaming or she was hiding quietly in the bathroom waiting for Oscar to deal with the fantasy intruders, or even if she was in the bathroom hiding from Oscar himself--

Why didn't she call police on her cell phone? This is driving me crazy now.

Why on earth would she have her phone in the toilet?!
Oh yeah, because OSCAR said she must have taken it with her.. You know, as a torch!

Just this part is SO improbable that I put it to you that it cannot be true.
That its a LIE...
 
  • #1,385
Yes, if you knew he had the gun pointed at the door. But if you had no idea what was going on, you'd simply bolt the door and freeze in fear.

But why not call for help?

Why scream and not call on the phone?

Why say nothing and not call on the phone?

Has anyone brought this up in the case?
 
  • #1,386
Why on earth would she have her phone in the toilet?!
Oh yeah, because OSCAR said she must have taken it with her.. You know, as a torch!

Just this part is SO improbable that I put it to you that it cannot be true.
That its a LIE...

So why would he lie about that?

To explain why she didn't turn on the bathroom lights?

Who can think of all these details under duress?
 
  • #1,387
Her silence is telling us something but I can't hear it yet.

If she didn't have her cell phone, why would he lie about that?

If she did have her cell phone, why didn't she call or text?

BBM

Because it "supports" his intruder story. He needed to have a reason for the neighbors to hear a man (him) yell "get the f out of my house", that is if any of them heard the exact words instead of just a man yelling. It also supports his "dark passageway" excuse as well, she used her phone as a light without turning on a bright light.

MOO
 
  • #1,388
  • #1,389
Please go read Mr. Ron's post a page or so back. Reeva had plenty of time to call the police or cry out to tell OP where she was in OP's version.


I'll take a look if I have time, but I don't think the time factor makes that much of a difference. Everything did happen very quickly. If you hear shouts to call the police and you have no idea what's going on out there, you don't just simply shout out from inside the toilet. Given that she must have figured there was an intruder in the house, her first instinct would have been to strain to listen. She couldn't see him pointing the gun at her.


People keep forgetting that this is the dead of night. Reeva would have been petrified.
 
  • #1,390
According to Mr. Dixon it is true that the cleaning people wiped the actual door, right? No one else said that was accurate in court did they?
 
  • #1,391
An epiphany about OP, and what is at the root of everybody's sense that he murdered Reeva...

OP's own story is one of irrational, emotion based reactions triggered by the most insignificant event. The sound of a woman using the bathroom resulted in him grabbing his gun and shoot her four times through the toilet door.

That's OP's own version.

So knowing that in OP's own version he thinks it reasonable to kill his girlfriend because she got up to use the bathroom without telling him, it's not a far stretch to believe he could have done the same thing if Reeva would have triggered him in some inconsequential way.

Maybe she touched his neck. Maybe she wasn't giving him enough sympathy that he wanted or needed from whatever event happened that day.

Maybe she told him to man the f*** up and stop feeling sorry for himself.

Who knows?

The point is if OP thinks his version is even close to reasonable, he's describing himself as somebody who would take an emotion based, irrational action - like intentionally killing Reeva because of some inconsequential thing she said or did that set him off.

:goodpost:
 
  • #1,392
<respectfully snipped>

The logical thing was to get up off the toilet, quickly lock the door (which is the sound I believe OP heard when he said he thought he heard the door open, and not the magazine rack), and switch on her cell phone to call the cops just as he had shouted for her to do. Which is why he found her cell phone switched on.

I'm not sure what phone she was using, but on mine (iphone) it has to be switched on in order to use the torch feature (as far as I am aware).

Incidentally, turning on my phone torch in a pitch dark room lightens the entire area to a surprising degree (I suggest you try it), not just the area in which you point it. You would definitely notice the change even if you were facing the opposite direction. This is probably why Pistorius said in cross examination that she might just have used the lit screen of a turned on phone to light her way to the bathroom. Such a light is pretty dim and vaguely lights a much smaller area.

Either way it is my opinion that her phone was probably already turned on when she entered the toilet.
 
  • #1,393
Her silence is telling us something but I can't hear it yet.

If she didn't have her cell phone, why would he lie about that?

If she did have her cell phone, why didn't she call or text?

BIB because it was found in the bathroom - in my version... because he took it from her before she was able to use it. So he had to say that she must have had it with her. It doesn't make sense in his version because really.. Why the flip would she take her phone at 3am to the loo for a pee.
 
  • #1,394
And it wasn't dark in the passage/bathroom as OP says it was. The light was ON.

He said the passage and bathroom were lit enough for ambient light.

There's no indication the light was on until after the first gunshots that the Stipps heard.
 
  • #1,395
Who did the busted phone cover on the floor of the bathroom belong to, OP or Reeva? The one that was thought to be another phone but was the front and back cover that was off the phone.
 
  • #1,396
1) He could already have had his legs on(up arguing with her), gone after her with bat, bashed door to get at her, then got gun (do we know for sure he kept it in bedroom?Or closer to bathroom?)and shot, then broke open door.

Could he have been shooting downwards at some point, to hit her as she crouched on toilet or once she had fallen? He needn't have been kneeling or crouched, simply aimed gun lower--which would imply he heard or saw that she was on toilet or slumped down in stall. I'm not clear on how it is known that she was pressed full height against the stall door at first.

2) If she was in stall to escape him and he had to put legs on, that would have given her time to phone for help. Unless he had shot her, disabled her.
3) Could he have originally been on stumps because they were preparing for bed when an argument broke out, she runs, he hastily puts legs on in pursuit--
4) Is it established that at the time of the incident (when he supposedly hears intruder and the whole thing is kicked off) they were in the bedroom? Could have been in the hallway or the bathroom together when all heck breaks out.
5) If he did not have legs on during the entire time he shot at her, he could have put them on post-shooting, as he says he did, but not for the reason he says. Not to be less vulnerable to more intruders or ready for police or security when he called, but to do whatever he was going to do in full knowledge that he had killed Reeva--as cover up of that knowledge.

I have never been able to believe he would abandon his combat readiness and his gun to get his legs on without knowing if the intruder was dead behind the door, or whether more were coming.

I still want to know why no follow-up on his explanation for screaming as being that he wanted to ask her "why are you calling the police?" Will we hear more about this? Did I miss something and he has said it was a slip of the tongue? Did Murphy'sLaw and others not hear correctly?

this may have been mentioned upstream but:
re close distance to the door for the hip shot... there are door/wood splinters around the hip wound, which it is argued would only embed at close range.
 
  • #1,397
According to Mr. Dixon it is true that the cleaning people wiped the actual door, right? No one else said that was accurate in court did they?

This is what Nel said, not Dixon.
 
  • #1,398
Who did the busted phone cover on the floor of the bathroom belong to, OP or Reeva? The one that was thought to be another phone but was the front and back cover that was off the phone.

I think Oscar said today that it was his
 
  • #1,399
You would if you were not sure what all the commotion was about, and you were still trying to assess what was going on. There would be a crucial delay while you tried to put two and two together. And remember all of this happened in seconds. There was very little time for her to react.

Besides, if she called out from inside the toilet knowing there was an intruder in the house, she would have alerted that intruded to her location and put herself in mortal danger. Of course the very opposite was true, but she had no way of knowing that at that stage.

The logical thing was to get up off the toilet, quickly lock the door (which is the sound I believe OP heard when he said he thought he heard the door open, and not the magazine rack), and switch on her cell phone to call the cops just as he had shouted for her to do. Which is why he found her cell phone switched on.

She didn't want to alert the intruder by calling out so she decided to slam the toilet door instead? (OP's own statement)?

It doesn't make sense.
 
  • #1,400
This is what Nel said, not Dixon.

Thanks! I didn't watch that part, only read about it here and misremembered!

Apparently OP is rubbing off on me. :blushing:
 
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