Trial Discussion Thread #29

[delilah]

I think that I recall Nel asking OP on the stand whether the DT had made such a recording, and OP confirmed that they had. If that is the case, is it still possible for the DT to present that recording?

If there is such a recording and the DT doesn't present it, this seems to imply that the DT did not get the "evidence" that they wanted when they made the recording. Ergo, OP could not scream sufficiently life a female to support his story.

Such a recording is not "an experiment". The conditions (a sound studio??) and a subject with a strong vested interest in screaming like a female, are too different from the instance that this recording is supposedly replicating.

Such an "experiment" is more like evidence manufacturing.

I expect that, if the screaming isn't convincing enough, Roux will simply use OP's claim to have never screamed like that before 14 feb and say he couldn't possibly replicate it.

 

[Hope4More]

Imo as soon as you realise the bat was used before the gun it all makes sense, it really is a eureka moment.

Yes. Except that it wasn't. Gun then bat, so sayeth the State.

 

[Emz73]

Just been watching 2012 Olympics and interviews with OP, just feel such over whelming sadness. We are talking about him. Obviously he had a dark side as we've been reading but it doesn't seem like its him we are talking about.
Such a waste, he had it all. Overcame his disability, great role model,very good at interviews, seems to come easy to him, gorgeous. Could he not see this? Was he not grateful for everything he had?
What stupid stupid fool.
Just having a moment.

 

[james83]

Yes. Except that it wasn't. Gun then bat, so sayeth the State.

Oh no they didn't.

 

[Rumpole]

The EVIDENCE for the screams being OP is already there. Presented by the STATE'S own witnesses. Nel agrees that the evidence beyond OP's "version of events" is to some extent circumstantial. Nel contends that such evidence is nevertheless sufficient to prove a case. He announced he would be relying on circumstantial evidence to prove the State's case.

We have all three close neighbors who testified for the State convinced that they heard GUNSHOTS (at 3:00 - 3:10) BEFORE they heard screams, and before Burger/Johnson heard screams. THAT is powerful evidence that the screams were OP.. since Reeva was incapable of screaming AFTER the gunshots (State's own experts testified to that, it is accepted and not in contention)

There is your "circumstantial" PROOF that it was OP screaming. No more proof is required. Any "test" of OP screaming will only be confirmation, and all that need be confirmed is that it is PLAUSIBLE the OP can scream in a high pitched voice that may well be mistaken for a woman's scream (at a distance). I would say OP's cries in court have already confirmed that. This sound test will just be icing on the cake.

 

[K.T]

Interesting article .. he does seem to have a lot of problems sleeping, by the sounds of it, and gets up to all sorts in the middle of the night because of it. That was written in Jan 2012, and even then the author of it picked up on several really worrying issues with him.

Agree! It’s NYTimes, which is supposedly more critical, but generally ALL sports articles are the most celebratory and gushing of all press. It’s not often that journalists say anything remotely bad about a sports idol in an intimate sports profile at the height of his fame.

So it’s very concerning that a journalist who spent a short time with Pistorius and was calling the subject “crazy” and “frenzied”. All that information about insomnia, guns, speed, anger issues, a diet of caffeine and caffeinated sports drinks…this guy was a time-bomb and should have had help a long time ago.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

But if he had confided in one of them about what really happened that night (with none of the lies he's told in court) they couldn't admit they knew anything, because they want to protect him at all costs. I think they were crying as a reaction to OP breaking down on the stand.

Possibly OP has never told the truth about all accidents, incidents, threats and so on to his family. We do know: he CAN'T admit to something. :smile:

 

[james83]

The EVIDENCE for the screams being OP is already there. Presented by the STATE'S own witnesses. Nel agrees that the evidence beyond OP's "version of events" is to some extent circumstantial. Nel contends that such evidence is nevertheless sufficient to prove a case. He announced he would be relying on circumstantial evidence to prove the State's case.

We have all three close neighbors who testified for the State convinced that they heard GUNSHOTS ( at 3:00 - 3:10) BEFORE they heard screams. THAT is powerful evidence that the screams were OP.. since Reeva was incapable of screaming AFTER the gunshots (State's own experts testified to that, it is accepted and not in contention)

There is you "circumstantial" PROOF that it was OP screaming. No more proof is required. Any "test" of OP screaming will only be confirmation, and all that need be confirmed is that it is PLAUSIBLE the OP can cream in a high pitched voice that may well be mistaken for a woman's scream (at a distance). I would say OP's cries in court have already confirmed that. This sound test will just be icing on the cake.

Sorry who was the third neighbour who heard the shot''s at 3.00-3.10, i hope you are not including Van Der Merwe in that?, because seeing as she heard gunshot's followed by total silence you would be wrong.

 

[Viper]

I expect that, if the screaming isn't convincing enough, Roux will simply use OP's claim to have never screamed like that before 14 feb and say he couldn't possibly replicate it.

It would seem that the DT has changed it's mind about producing "screaming" evidence that OP screams like a girl. When Nel asked OP about the experiment OP said he did not know the names of the people or the company that conducted the experiment or who set it up; effectively distancing himself from it ever happening at all. Weird.

 

[IfIMay]

I can't make sense of the above comment I'm afraid.

The details have already been clarified in an earlier post.

clarified? only in Oscar-speak. I believe you've earned your advanced Oscar speak degree. congratulations! :seeya:

 

[Viper]

Told ya.

Told us what?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Just been watching 2012 Olympics and interviews with OP, just feel such over whelming sadness. We are talking about him. Obviously he had a dark side as we've been reading but it doesn't seem like its him we are talking about.
Such a waste, he had it all. Overcame his disability, great role model,very good at interviews, seems to come easy to him, gorgeous. Could he not see this? Was he not grateful for everything he had?
What stupid stupid fool.
Just having a moment.

If one wouldn't have to resent about his dishonesty, then one could cry.
You are right!

 

[weeeva]

Yes, I thought it was too far fetched to start off with, when I first came to this forum but it makes perfect sense to me now.

Are you therefore dismissing the testimony of experts who agree that the gun shots came first?

 

[Rumpole]

Sorry who was the third neighbour who heard the shot''s at 3.00-3.10, i hope you are not including Van Der Merwe in that?, because seeing as she heard gunshot's followed by total silence you would be wrong.

Straw man.
My argument remains remains valid.

Yes, Van der Merwe most certainty was one of the three who heard the gunshots (explosions that her husband said were gunshots). The other 2 couples heard screams. They are the ONLY people who heard screams I might add. Despite your "point" my argument is the same. The two couples who heard screams, heard them at a time AFTER anybody honestly assessing ALL the STATE would place the gunshots.

 

[Viper]

Yes. Except that it wasn't. Gun then bat, so sayeth the State.

If you believe that, by selectively reading only one sentence and not the entire testimony, then please share your thoughts on what exactly OP was doing for those 19 minutes after he killed Reeva before he finally called Stander and Netcare. TIA

 

[lisasalinger]

It would seem that the DT has changed it's mind about producing "screaming" evidence that OP screams like a girl. When Nel asked OP about the experiment OP said he did not know the names of the people or the company that conducted the experiment or who set it up; effectively distancing himself from it ever happening at all. Weird.

They failed miserably on this.

Oscar's answer to Nel about whether or not there was a recording was so blatantly evasive. He fumbled all over the place.

One of the questions that Roux asked Oscar on reexamination was if he was aware of any equipment present when they were testing the screams at Uncle Arnold's home...

I think Roux was opening the door for him to say no here and brilliant Oscar says that he is aware that some equipment was used but he's not sure what tests they conducted. The look on Roux's face was priceless. I don't think he was pleased with his answer. Even Uncle Arnold looked uneasy listening to Oscar's answer.

Maybe I misinterpreted that whole exchange, but I don't think so.

 

[Murphys_Law]

It also doesn't ring true to me that he was struggling to pick her up, simply because of his sheer strength and fitness (and being on his p.legs at the time, too .. as I suspect he had been all evening/night) .. there is no way he wouldn't have been able to pick her up, not with all his muscles and extreme fitness training.

There deffo must've been another reason why he called Stander.

Agreed... with a twist
I think he dragged her out of the toilette into the bath area.
There are no foot prints of any sort in the toilette, but there are drag marks.

 

[james83]

Straw man.

By argument remains remains valid.

It really doesn't, you are not for a second considering the fact that your story relies on people not hearing gunfire, but hearing a bat hitting a door, it is impossible for you or anyone else to conclude how loud or not the bat strike's were, but logic suggest's they were not louder than gunfire.
VDM heard the 2nd shot's that much is clear, she heard 4 bangs, total silence and then crying.
Nhlegthwa phoned security at 3.16 because he heard a bang and then crying.
Funnily enough the Stipps who are the only people who heard both set's of sound's were directly opposite Pistorius's bathroom.
So to cut to the chase, if Oscar is telling the truth, 4 people failed to hear gunfire but did hear a bat hitting a door, believable?.

 

[Emz73]

If one wouldn't have to resent about his dishonesty, then one could cry.
You are right!

I did cry when he first cried on the stand. Then he seemed argumentive, arrogant and whiney and I got over it. Abit.

 

[Emz73]

If you believe that, by selectively reading only one sentence and not the entire testimony, then please share your thoughts on what exactly OP was doing for those 19 minutes after he killed Reeva before he finally called Stander and Netcare. TIA

Its only bullet hole D that is shot first then bat or him pulling the wood out. He could of hit the top part with the bat first. Its so annoying people keep saying it like its 100% a fact.

You ill now get the answer, it wasn't 19 minutes.