Trial Discussion Thread #9 - 14.03.18, Day 12

[zwiebel]

Toilet door:

R: Why did you not takee a close up of that?

VS: I don't understand the question

R points out a white mark on door near where all the tiles fell off. Judge wants to know if it is damage or a mark. R says it is 'a mark'.

 

[katydid23]

I dread to hear Roux's eventual cross of the blood spatter analyst. I expect him to insinuate that the blood spatter was moved or altered.

I think that's why he is trying to discredit this witness. He wants to imply that the pictures taken of blood splatter evidence were also faulty, staged, incorrect.

 

[zwiebel]

Sigh. Roux wants to know why VS just took a pic of the bloodstain on the watch box, and not a close up of all the watches themselves.

Because the watches should be more important than a lil' ole bloodstain, uh?

R moves swiftly to the missing watch. Implication VS stole it and that's why no close up of the watches?

 

[soozieqtips]

I can imagine if he didn't take 'enough' photos, that would be a mark against him too. Sounds like he tried to cover everything by taking as many photos as possible. Surely too many is better than not enough? None of the witnesses can do anything right in Roux's eyes. And it's a bit much to imply (through his constant badgering) that somehow, the police, the photographers, the tool mark guy, etc etc, all got together (just like all the witnesses did) to try and frame OP. Paranoia, much??

 

[minor4th]

Anyone who thinks this cross examination shows desperation or the weakness of the defense, I believe you may have missed the point of what Roux is doing. He is successfully showing that yet another officer is lying about the circumstances of the crime scene and who was present. He is also showing that while the photographer claimed that he was alone while he was documenting the crime scene - it turns out he was not. That throws in doubt the accuracy of the positions of the photographed items and the preservation of the crime scene

 

[zwiebel]

R wants VS to check all his metadata during lunch to ensure times are correct.

R wants lunch.

Nel wants VS to check if he is visible on any of Col M's photos at the same time he is doing that. Judge v. slow in understanding what he was asking.

Lunch. Back 1.45

 

[zwiebel]

Can anyone recollect if yesterday VS did say he was totally alone upstairs, or if he just said he was taking photos on his own? it doesn't mean the same thing.

Seems to me it's a little much to expect him to know exactly where everyone was while he was doing his job......

 

[minor4th]

Wow. They didn't even remove the contents of the overnight bag to see what was in it

 

[minor4th]

Can anyone recollect if yesterday VS did say he was totally alone upstairs, or if he just said he was taking photos on his own? it doesn't mean the same thing.

Seems to me it's a little much to expect him to know exactly where everyone was while he was doing his job......

He said he was alone upstairs.

You might not expect someone to know where everyone was while taking pictures, but you would expect him to notice Col Motha being in the exact same room taking pictures for several minutes - yet claiming he never saw him and also claiming to have been alone.

 

[sorrell skye]

Anyone who thinks this cross examination shows desperation or the weakness of the defense, I believe you may have missed the point of what Roux is doing. He is successfully showing that yet another officer is lying about the circumstances of the crime scene and who was present. He is also showing that while the photographer claimed that he was alone while he was documenting the crime scene - it turns out he was not. That throws in doubt the accuracy of the positions of the photographed items and the preservation of the crime scene

If one camera has its clock set to one time, and the other camera's clock is set to another time, the timestamps in the metadata will reflect those overlapping timestamps.

This could be why the timestamps between Van Staden's photos & Col. M's photos overlapped.

Unless it's proven that both their camera's clocks were set to the exact same time, then I don't think Van Staden is lying.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Don't hate me for this, but Roux is a nice looking older gentleman when he smiles.
(There were a couple of smiles over "the magazine" and on which side of the bed it was located. Photographer answered right side - apparently thinking magazine of the gun found in drawer on right side of bed. Roux was referring to a paper magazine of the type you read, located on the left side of the bed.)

 

[sorrell skye]

Can anyone recollect if yesterday VS did say he was totally alone upstairs, or if he just said he was taking photos on his own? it doesn't mean the same thing.

Seems to me it's a little much to expect him to know exactly where everyone was while he was doing his job......

I remember him saying he was alone. I believe him.

I think Roux is grasping. I think it's highly possible that one of the camera's clocks was set at a different time.

 

[LemonMousse]

Anyone who thinks this cross examination shows desperation or the weakness of the defense, I believe you may have missed the point of what Roux is doing. He is successfully showing that yet another officer is lying about the circumstances of the crime scene and who was present. He is also showing that while the photographer claimed that he was alone while he was documenting the crime scene - it turns out he was not. That throws in doubt the accuracy of the positions of the photographed items and the preservation of the crime scene

He hasn't successfully shown that this officer is "lying"!

Where's the evidence that these two cameras were in perfect synch time wise? Even a 90 second difference in the times on the cameras is enough for this witness to photograph the hall alone, leave it and have no awareness of someone else there a minute and a half later taking another photo.

Raised some questions? Yes. Proved lies and inaccurate preservation of the crime scene? Hardly.

 

[Trooper]

Anyone who thinks this crossexamination was successful for Roux is missing the point entirely.. until Roux puts MOTHAS pics into evidence, we know he hasn't because Nel has asked them to be produced by Roux.. and also, if Van STad is in any of them..

Roux hasn't shown anything, not even related to who was in the bathroom at the same time, because Mothas camera and Van STadens camera have not been calibrated as synchronized.. as yet.. I very much doubt if they will be.. eventually, Roux hs to deal with the contents of the pictures.. which , naturally, show the process of the crime.. do they show Oscars version?? or the police version.. ??

to the police.. the scene of the crime as photod by van stad convinced them that it wasn't an accident.. this was while Van Stad was about 3 hours into his photographic marathon.. he was still photographing 72 hours on..

to state that it turns out Van Stad wasn't alone as a fact, based on Mothas time stamp on a camera unknown is a deep misreading of what the Judges job is , in every sense of the word..

I do look forward to Roux going thru the contents of the pictures, though. . all 7000 of 'em.

 

[zwiebel]

Roux made a huge leap today, in my opinon, in suggesting police were willing to damage and even put a bullet hole in a bedroom door, in order to further their case against OP. And that they'd had the time by then to calculate it would help further their case.

It is possible of course. Almost anything is. But myself, I do not think the judge will accept that scenario, which really calls for a picture of a whole team of totally corrupt officers working in collusion to manufacture evidence against OP.

 

[04009margaret]

He said he was alone upstairs.

You might not expect someone to know where everyone was while taking pictures, but you would expect him to notice Col Motha being in the exact same room taking pictures for several minutes - yet claiming he never saw him and also claiming to have been alone.

BBM. I don't recall any evidence that both cameras have been checked whether their times were synchronised

 

[Estelle]

If one camera has its clock set to one time, and the other camera's clock is set to another time, the timestamps in the metadata will reflect those differing timestamps.

This could be why the timestamps between Van Staden's photos & Col. M's photos overlapped.

Unless it's proven that both their camera's clocks were set to the exact same time, then I don't think Van Staden is lying.

I am suspicious of Col Motha.

Gerrie Nel tried to stop Roux showing Motha's photos so I suspect that he is corrupt or an OP fan so his photos could have been tampered with. Otherwise, of course, the time clocks were different.

 

[sorrell skye]

Anyone who thinks this cross examination shows desperation or the weakness of the defense, I believe you may have missed the point of what Roux is doing. He is successfully showing that yet another officer is lying about the circumstances of the crime scene and who was present. He is also showing that while the photographer claimed that he was alone while he was documenting the crime scene - it turns out he was not. That throws in doubt the accuracy of the positions of the photographed items and the preservation of the crime scene

What Roux is doing is accusing the investigators and the prosecutor's office of colluding in a great big conspiracy to frame OP.

IMO, if that's not desperation, I don't know what is.

He can't refute the evidence itself, so he goes after the investigators. Classic defense attorney tactic when they have nothing else to go on, and when they themselves probably suspect (or know) their client is guilty as charged.

 

[kittychi]

Anyone who thinks this cross examination shows desperation or the weakness of the defense, I believe you may have missed the point of what Roux is doing. He is successfully showing that yet another officer is lying about the circumstances of the crime scene and who was present. He is also showing that while the photographer claimed that he was alone while he was documenting the crime scene - it turns out he was not. That throws in doubt the accuracy of the positions of the photographed items and the preservation of the crime scene

It looks to me like Roux is trying to prove a counter-narrative that ALL of the witnesses so far have colluded against Oscar. That each individually has done something to contaminate the scene, lie about who all was there at what time, lie about what they saw and heard, asking all to remember from over a year ago exactly what they saw, what they heard, where they were and why.

Sounds desperate to me. Its all he's got, since he has not been able to match his client's version of events with ANY witness statement so far. Has he?

 

[LemonMousse]

It's also entirely possible that this Col. Motha was waiting for Van Stadt to finish taking photos in a particular room before following him in a taking a few snaps himself. A man intent own his job won't necessarily notice this and the time stamps of the photos will be similar.

I don't think any of us have missed what Roux is trying to do - we just don't think he's succeeded particularly well.