Trial Discussion Thread #9 - 14.03.18, Day 12

[LemonMousse]

If professional, official police photographers go around with camera time not set correctly, when investigating a murder scene... knowing that their photos and data WILL be used in court, and especially in this case that they had to know would likely be High Profile.....Then I guess SA cops may well go out on patrol and forget to put bullets in their guns?

[modsnip]

Two cameras - three possibilities:

Van Stadt's time is wrong
Motha's time is wrong
Both camera times were wrong

An equal chance of Motha making the mistake as van Stadt - but you've decided it was van Stadt. Why? That's confirmation bias.

Are we going to hear from Motha? Is he going to tell us that he was with van Stadt as they were taking photos? If not, why not? This would be important evidence - cameras are merely tools, it's the actions of the people that matter. If Roux is planning on this, why doesn't Nel know all about it?

 

[Trooper]

all we need to know, really , is the reason the police and witnesses have to conspire against Oscar.. its that simple, really. once that is explained, every thing will fall into place..


or is it a state secret only privy to a select two or three??

I merely enquire.

 

[04009margaret]

lol the first guy pointed to the wrong spot on the door

 

[Rumpole]

I[modsnip]

Two cameras - three possibilities:

Van Stadt's time is wrong
Motha's time is wrong
Both camera times were wrong

An equal chance of Motha making the mistake as van Stadt - but you've decided it was van Stadt. Why? That's confirmation bias.

Are we going to hear from Motha? Is he going to tell us that he was with van Stadt as they were taking photos? If not, why not? This would be important evidence - cameras are merely tools, it's the actions of the people that matter. If Roux is planning on this, why doesn't Nel know all about it?

[modsnip]

I made general comment about police photographers... meaning either or both would ASSURE their camera time was set correctly. I don't think either would have wrong time.

 

[katydid23]

Today is the first day that Milady seems a bit peeved with Roux. Usually she seems very smily and polite towards him. But not today ----she seems a bit impatient with him.

 

[LemonMousse]

Because you referred to the official police photographer - that's van Stadt. Motha is apparently a ballistics expert - unless he moonlights.

 

[Trooper]

maybe this secret conspiracy against Oscar is SO BIG.. so SECRET that even OSCAR doesn't know who 's in it!!

there he sits, poor little lamb.. pulled hither and yon by the malicious secret spinning wheels, all he did was take a few pings at Reeva, and now she's dead, what a nuisance, but this is really small change compared to the great conspiracy that right before our very eyes is being played out on a very secret level in a courthouse in Pretoria..... who'da thunk?? who knew??

 

[sorrell skye]

We'll see if there's some explanation, but the camera clocks would have to be off by 30 minutes or more for them to have been in the bathroom and bedroom at different times while their photo metadata suggests that they were in the same rooms taking pictures at the same time.

I think Van Staden is lying. I think he is covering for his superiors because he was instructed to do so.

Why would his superiors instruct him to lie?

 

[Trooper]

Why would his superiors instruct him to lie?

why would he lie even if his "superiors instructed him to do so??" he , a warrant officer told Motha, a colonel to foxtrot Oscar outta there..

that's the trouble with conspiracy theories.. they have to have all the ducks lined up in a row.... one missing duck , or one duck that wont go missing is always an irritating problem.

 

[zwiebel]

VS explaining why he and Col M decided not to put a pic of the bat going into the door in the album.

 

[zwiebel]

R interpets that as Col M told VS which ones to put in/leave out and 'You obliged'.

 

[G.bng]

Anyone who thinks this cross examination shows desperation or the weakness of the defense, I believe you may have missed the point of what Roux is doing. He is successfully showing that yet another officer is lying about the circumstances of the crime scene and who was present. He is also showing that while the photographer claimed that he was alone while he was documenting the crime scene - it turns out he was not. That throws in doubt the accuracy of the positions of the photographed items and the preservation of the crime scene

Who can judge who is missing the point? IMBW, but we may all be missing it as I get the feeling that in the end the judge may not be able to determine this case on forensics, ballistics, photos, what witnesses heard or saw, etc. but only on the SA laws in respect of the use of deadly force, i.e. whether it was reasonable for OP to shoot 4 times blindly through a door. And SA law runs more on the lines of the UK in respect of guns and self defence, so even if in countries such as the US, in many states at least, it can be considered reasonable to use deadly force just on the belief of a threat, e.g. the Japanese student shot when going to a door to ask the way, in other countries it is not, and don't forget OP's answer on his gun licence questionnaire:

"Know your target and what lies beyond."

and OP very clearly didn't "know" either !

 

[04009margaret]

wow, we're all entitled to interpret what we see & hear & express our views with respect. But it's getting a little hot in the kitchen here lol

 

[zwiebel]

Nel up, asking if VS has seen any photos taken by Col M where he (VS) appears in the photo. He says no.

 

[zwiebel]

Help me someone. Did Nel just say 'you must be in that photo' to VS and VS agreed, even though it was just showing an empty passage and a cartridge shell on floor?

 

[sorrell skye]

Go Nel!!!!

Motha's photo timestamp of the hallway was the same time that Van Staden took the close-up of the cartridge in the hallway.

He pointed out that if he & Motha were there at the same time, Van Staden would have been seen in Motha's photo of the hallway.

Epic fail for Roux. He was so sure that he had a gotcha moment - but Nel is handing him his hat, as it were.

 

[LemonMousse]

So, in 7000 photos, VS managed to miss photographing his co-photographer.

He must have been being VERY careful not to, so the conspiracy to hide incompetent preservation of the crime scene must have begun before preservation of the crime scene even happened.

And Nel is rightly pointing out that Roux's assertion that VS and M must have both been in the corridor when VS photographed it is proved wrong by the fact that M is nowhere to be seen in VS's photo.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel as VS if Col M was in the bathroom with VS, how did he miss getting him in the photos?

VS says Col M was not in the bathroom with him.

Nel asks if they had an agreement they would not put each other in photos.

VS says no. And also says he does not appear in any of Col M's photos either.

 

[zwiebel]

Go Nel!!!!

Motha's photo timestamp of the hallway was the same time that Van Staden took the close-up of the cartridge in the hallway.

He pointed out that if he & Motha were there at the same time, Van Staden would have been seen in Motha's photo of the hallway.

Epic fail for Roux. He was so sure that he had a gotcha moment - but Nel is handing him his hat, as it were.

Oh, I see thank you. All these photos are completely confuddling to me!

 

[MeeBee]

Well played, Nel.