Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[Viper]

what we should have, is a poll before the defence lay their case on the table..


(a) has Roux eradicated the Screaming woman from all involvement with the death of Reeva Steenkamp.. and

(b) has this Screaming Woman been replaced unarguably with Oscar Screaming?


keeping in mind, that any witnesses to come will be Defence witnesses.. Roux wont be cross-examining them, just as Nel didn't cross examine the State witnesses..

Roux will be leading them on to tell the story, and once he's done that, he has to step back and leave them in the hands of Nel as cross examiner..

All Roux can do from now on, is object during cross examination. and he has to have solid legal foundation, just as Nel had to have to make any objection..

so (a) yes/no

and (b) yes/no

A. No.
B. No.

The screaming woman, Reeva, is not going to go away "magically" just because Roux puts on some witnesses that slept through the majority of this nightmare. They can only pick up the story at the point from where they popped in.

 

[MeeBee]

Just a theory on the iPhone...apple ID/password is different to a four digit pin number usually required to unlock the phone itself. Oscar provided the former but apparently forgot the latter. It's likely the apple ID only leads to partial information anyway - like apps downloaded or iTunes history. Texts likely wouldn't be saved, independent of the device, unless the iPhone was backed up to iCloud. (I think some people may be confusing password with pin, though.)

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/general/96849-hurdles-in-cracking-pistorius-iphone-code-report.html

Sounds like it's the reporters/investigators/lawyers confusing the matter, not any of us. We're just going by what we read.

 

[MeeBee]

After handing this letter over to the press, the defense better bring it up in court. If they don't then that tells me that they simply wanted to smear the State with false information to the media and put out there that OP simply enjoys things on iTunes that normal, everyday people do.

MOO

In feel like there was anything genuinely there, this would have been apart of the state's case. My gut tells me they investigated the matter further, as the link provided by Kate indicates, and found nothing nefarious.

 

[minor4th]

I read somewhere that OP had provided his password but investigators were using the wrong Apple ID with the password

 

[BritsKate]

Sounds like it's the reporters/investigators/lawyers confusing the matter, not any of us. We're just going by what we read.

I never said otherwise. I was just trying to clarify what was obfuscated. The reporters could not have accessed the content of Oscar's phone without his pin number and phone - just his apple account. They're not the same thing.

 

[MeeBee]

I read somewhere that OP had provided his password but investigators were using the wrong Apple ID with the password

That makes sense. They were accusing him of changing it remotely or opening a new account to throw them, it seems, and wanted to look into it further for any changes to the account. That it appears nothing was found indicates that OP was not being misleading but that the investigators are the ones who made the mistake and the state will not go into the matter. NOW, that's all well and good. But running to the media claiming OP lied to them is still wrong when they hasn't even sorted it out yet. The more I find out the more disgusted I become.

 

[MeeBee]

I never said otherwise. I was just trying to clarify what was obfuscated. The reporters could not have accessed the content of Oscar's phone without his pin number and phone - just his apple account. They're not the same thing.

I understand that and know they are not the same thing. It seems there are two different issues that are getting mixed up. Nel also provided no evidence that OP "forgot" his iPhone pin either, though, which I feel would be a win for him. There seems to be a lot of incorrect info coming from one side and not a lot of "whoops, guess we were wrong." Whatever they were doing worked.

 

[Trooper]

who did what that 'worked'??

 

[BritsKate]

I understand that and know they are not the same thing. It seems there are two different issues that are getting mixed up. Nel also provided no evidence that OP "forgot" his iPhone pin either, though, which I feel would be a win for him. There seems to be a lot of incorrect info coming from one side and not a lot of "whoops, guess we were wrong." Whatever they were doing worked.

Are we certain that Nel could have under South Africa's law of evidence? There are a veritable ton of statutes regarding admissibility, so admittedly, I wouldn't even know where to begin to look.

 

[Trooper]

who did what that 'worked'??

:dunno::nevermind:

 

[BritsKate]

:dunno::nevermind:

I was curious too because it certainly couldn't have been the reporters.

 

[MeeBee]

Are we certain that Nel could have under South Africa's law of evidence? There are a veritable ton of statutes regarding admissibility, so admittedly, I wouldn't even know where to begin to look.

If it was what happened I'd think there'd be a line of questioning like this:

"Was the phone locked?"

Yes

"Did you need a pin to unlock it?"

Yes

"Were you ever provided that pin?"

No

"So how did you unlock it?"

And so on.

Similar for the iTunes account. Don't see why he couldn't have done that.

And if Roux questions OP on this and it all checks out, and Nel doesn't cross examine on it, we'll know what really happened.

 

[MeeBee]

I was curious too because it certainly couldn't have been the reporters.

Tainting the public against OP worked. Seems like there was a lot of running out to report on all the slimy details and not a lot of retractions.

 

[Trooper]

Tainting the public against OP worked. Seems like there was a lot of running out to report on all the slimy details and not a lot of retractions.

so is this a police and press and prosecution conspiracy??

( if I have left out any other entities , put it down to inability to follow the golden thread) ...

 

[Trooper]

is Judge Masipa one of 'the public' who is now, apparently 'tainted'?? in this theory?

 

[04009margaret]

I'm not convinced it was under the bed, either .. he has one of those really low Japanese style beds .. and I can just imagine how difficult it would be trying to get your hand underneath that, and then try groping around for your gun in the dark. It's much more likely, for both that reason, and for the reason that it appeared to be his normal habit, that it was on the nightstand .. and that seems like a good excuse, doesn't it, in OP's story, to have it placed under the bed so as not to have noticed whether Reeva was there or not.

This is where common sense comes into play. Common sense tells you if OP was so paranoid about the prospect of intruders he would keep his gun within arms reach. Not under the bed where he has to feel around for it in the dark, should he need to defend himself urgently. I would suggest he would keep it either on the bedside table or under his pillow. Are we to believe if an intruder had made it into his bedroom, he would get out of bed & fumble around on the floor under his bed seeking out his gun?

 

[Danta]

But you specified a link which you quoted, and I was referring to that and not to a discussion in another thread.

Unless someone can give a source, I'm not convinced that anyone lent OP a ladder. It sounds like someone read between the lines and made an assumption which has been repeated and is now treated as a fact.

I was quoting that link because Christo said "ladder" singular not because the link said the ladder was his. I was hoping someone that discussed the ladder or ladders on previous threads might have a picture or a link, if the ladder was in the yard, as was the jeans. OP said he saw ladders and I thought it would be valuable information if the ladder or ladders in his yard were too small to reach the windo.

 

[04009margaret]

Your probably right, but it really is a ridiculous error of judgement to plead not guilty to those charges, he is bang to right's on those charges and has now shown the judge that he is a liar who is not prepared to take responsibility for his action's, it's just the most unbelievably arrogant thing he could have done.

It has also put before the court his prior reckless behavior, which would not have been allowed into evidence without his NG plead.

 

[BritsKate]

Tainting the public against OP worked. Seems like there was a lot of running out to report on all the slimy details and not a lot of retractions.

What exactly does that gain the prosecution anyway? There's only a judge and two assessors to decide this case and, as such, the magistrates/assessors in question are seen, by the law, to be impervious to public opinion.

I kinda think Oscar didn't need a whole lot of help in swaying public opinion against him. Nike dropped him a week after the shooting, Oakley didn't even wait that long. Maybe they're at fault as well for dropping their sponsorship with Oscar before a trial. :dunno:

 

[Trooper]

What exactly does that gain the prosecution anyway? There's only a judge and two assessors to decide this case and, as such, the magistrates/assessors in question are seen, by the law, to be impervious to public opinion.

I kinda think Oscar didn't need a whole lot of help in swaying public opinion against him. Nike dropped him a week after the shooting, Oakley didn't even wait that long. Maybe they're at fault as well for dropping their sponsorship with Oscar before a trial. :dunno:

well obviously . a large conspiracy... add to that the poor Mayor of Germona , Italy


http://sports.ndtv.com/othersports/...spends-sponsorship-deal-with-pistorius-report