Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[asanque]

I agree with you entirely. The only way that the sounds can be those of Reeva is if the first noises were not gunshots.

I'm actually inclined to believe the initial loud noises were doors banging shut (i.e. the damage to the bedroom door, followed by Reeva running into the toilet and slamming the door).

 

[steveml]

I'm really surprised there hasn't been recording of the netcare phone call?? When that bloke at the mobile home park in America killed his family, they played it to show he was distraught.

If the phone call showed him calm etc the the pros would of played it?
If he didn't ring them and just let it go for a few seconds wouldn't that be on record?
Thinking now it was meant to be 66 seconds. Which doesn't happen here as they keep you on the line until the police get there.
If they didn't even speak to him, he just hung there wouldn't they of come forward and say he's lying?

Or is it an embarrassment for them they gave terrible advice but wouldn't that be all over the news?
Have they lost the recording, why not admit it?

I obviously need to get a life as its a lovely day outside but its annoying me.
In these murders there's always a 911/999 call to play???

There could well be a witness called by defense yet.

The Netcare call hasn't been introduced by Nel as far as I can remember. If he bypasses it, it's probably because they can't trace the call or it doesn't strengthen the prosecution's case.

 

[soozieqtips]

That will take me hours. You trying to get rid of me?

Besides I need answers fast.

Seriously, thanks!

It would take Trooper hours too. You can probably find what you're looking for by using the 'search thread' feature (once you've found the thread you want) and then putting some keywords in. That's probably the quickest way to do it.

 

[molly333]

I think that 5 different independent witnesses called by the prosecution who heard female screaming between 3 to 3:17 a.m. are highly credible (and would mean that the 3 a.m. sounds were not the fatal gunshots).

If you are looking at this case just now, I recommend you read juror 13.http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/

He provides a very succinct summary of the matter to date.

Thanks.

A woman screaming for 17 minutes and no police called?

 

[steveml]

I'm actually inclined to believe the initial loud noises were doors banging shut (i.e. the damage to the bedroom door, followed by Reeva running into the toilet and slamming the door).

It's possible. Johan Stipp testified that he only heard three bangs initially.

However, it doesn't help too much that he only heard three bangs later as well.

 

[Trooper]

That will take me hours. You trying to get rid of me?

Besides I need answers fast.

Seriously, thanks!

get rid of you?? *snort* ... no. but everyone else has done their homework and put in the hard yards, and there is no reason why you cant either.. you'll benefit from it. :moo:

 

[asanque]

Thanks.

A woman screaming for 17 minutes and no police called?

The witnesses called security.

 

[Freya1977]

You might as yourself--what happened to his brain? It never showed up in Bethesda.

Sorry I don't understand this post?

 

[shane13]

I've seen videos of people with worse trauma to the head sitting up in an ER. Concious. If you don't believe it, Google something like "alive with head blown apart" or something similar.

Good suggestion, Freya.

Guess which "case" is the first Google result of that search?

 

[steveml]

Well actually, you are ignoring the testimony from the state pathologist that the first shot hit Reeva on the hip allowing her time to scream.

Nope, the screaming I referred to is specifically the screaming in the witness testimonies after the first gunshots.

 

[Trooper]

Sorry I don't understand this post?

me either...who's brain??

 

[Freya1977]

Good suggestion, Freya.

Guess which "case" is the first Google result of that search?

I'm going to go check, but I'm betting it's JFK

 

[james83]

Remember for Oscars nonsense to be true, he screams like a woman before he has broken the door down and has even seen Reeva, and then stops once he gets it open, o.k then.

 

[asanque]

Nope, the screaming I referred to is specifically the screaming in the witness testimonies after the first gunshots.

It's possible. Johan Stipp testified that he only heard three bangs initially.

However, it doesn't help too much that he only heard three bangs later as well.

Weird theory #1

Reeva and OP fight leading to OP slamming the bedroom door hard in anger (sound 1) and grabbing the gun.

Reeva runs straight to the bathroom and slams the toilet door (sound 2).

OP fires a shot through the door (sound 3) and hits her on the hip.

Reeva starts screaming for help from the toilet.

OP tries to calm her down for 15 minutes and says he is sorry.

Reeva continues to scream.

OP gets frustrated and mad and shoots 3 more times.

 

[salberg7]

I am appalled at what a blubbering, wailing, wimpy witness OP has proven himself to be. Athletes of his stature should be used to dealing with lots of stress & pressure. I would have thought he would have developed the skills to steel himself & get through stressful episodes. I think he has zero coping skills, or else has been coddled & shielded by adoring friends & family & not been given the opportunity to develop any. He blames everything on everyone else & has taken responsibility for his actions only after being forced to do so, for instance when Mr Nel asked him to state that he killed poor Reeva, he wouldn't own it, just saying that it was a mistake. At the start of this trial I was pretty sure he may have killed Reeva by accident, now I am not so sure it wasn't premeditated, if only premeditated for several minutes before the event. He acts like a child would when he doesn't get his way. Looking at all the events & his behavior over the years - having a friend take the blame for shooting the gun off in the restaurant, threatening to break someone's legs - he was a ticking time bomb. Unfortunately he met a strong woman like Reeva, not the young girls he was used to, & he couldn't cope with her being his equal. Poor Reeva. Yes I know it's traumatic for him reliving the events of the night he killed Reeva, but for goodness sake, man up! I am tired of his "green bucket" & his inability to control his emotions. But he is not too upset to point out the mistakes of others, ie the police. Wasn' t the scene contaminated by him & his family & neighbors that he called *before* he called for medical help? Give me a break. Can he only compose himself when he is at target practice shooting watermelons? JMO.

 

[Viper]

My contention makes no difference, and neither does the witnesses. If the first shots were gunshots, Reeva did not scream, shout or make any sound afterwards, because she was dead.
We cannot ignore that, it's one of the few facts in this case that we can establish. Whether OP's voice is low-pitched or high-pitched or sounds male or female is an irrelevance,

All the sound tests in the world cannot disprove that fact.

BIB. I strongly disagree. But if you take as fact that OP murdered Reeva at 3:00 - first set of noises, not specific to gunshots, just noises, then please tell me what OP did during the following 17 minutes of time. Am I to believe that OP had a 17 minute screaming, crying, and arguing session with himself, using alternatively a man's and a woman's voice; and that Reeva was alive through all of that up until 3:25 when he brought her downstairs and stuck his fingers in her mouth? That is unbelievable. But in "OP "Land" the unbelievable is the same as the truth and fact.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I don't think it's at all possible to target through a solid wood door, in darkness, with or without the use of prosthesis. There's been some suggestion of apparently tracking a persons voice.
Previous examples of this have not been shown, and if they were I'd expect it to be somewhere in Hollywood...on a dvd.

You're correct, in the bail charge the PT claimed he fired 4 times at the basin, and had attached his prosthesis.

The PT can only have deduced the aiming and potential target of the bullets by presuming OP was using his prosthesis. The fact that they admit that this is now incorrect, suggests that it would be extremely difficult to now claim that the trajectory of the bullets remain the same, and OP was still targeting a specific point.

:smile:

Don't think we will have to wait for too much longer to find out one way or another
Nel seems to be covering things point by point

 

[Carmelita]

In OP’s defense (as to why he did or didn't do things if the events unfolded in the way he said that they did) I have to say that unless you have lived through a moment in life that is horrific and sudden, requiring immediate action, you cannot be sure how you would respond. I have and when I called 911 I could not remember my address. What you do and what you know you would do under extreme stress is not always so simple under certain circumstances.

I don’t know what happened in that house, only two people do, OP and RS. It appears that Oscar’s version does not fit the crime scene photos. His hot temper, immediate fight response, and his histrionics lead me to believe he could have killed her in a blind range, I also believe it could have been an accident. He could have gone into full “recon” and shot into the toilet, even if he heard Reeva screaming, he could have been in such a manic state that the reality of Reeva being behind the door was not an option in his mind. Blind with fear or rage?

He is not a very intelligent man. I can see a scenario where he thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, went into kill or be killed mode and then discovered the tragic results.

I don’t think that the evidence thus far has proved either theory. OP’s dramatics, (real, fake, for himself or Reeva, have not served him well) his statements such as “I wish Reeva had told me it was her” make him look like a cold hearted killer that is blaming Reeva for her own death. That said, “I wish Reeva had told me it was her” could be interpreted in a charitable light for OP, as in a remorseful wishful tone.

OP is admittedly not a very bright bulb, he is an extremely emotional guy and trying to judge him under his having killed Reeva and the constraints of courtroom decorum is difficult at best.

Is he a cold blooded killer trying to save his own or is he a rather dull witted, paranoid hot headed, immature, boy man who has never had to take responsibility for his bad behavior who made an adrenaline fueled fatal mistake and tried to cover it up by making himself seem less culpable than he was? I haven’t made up my mind.

As to the restaurant gun incident, there is something deeply wrong and troubling with a man who shot a gun and insists that his finger was not on the trigger and it somehow magically went off. He is saying this in court, in front of a judge that will decide his fate, he really does remind me of a small child with a cookie in his mouth who insists to the point of throwing a tantrum that he did not put the cookie in his own mouth.

A bizarre man.

 

[kittychi]

I think that 5 different independent witnesses called by the prosecution who heard female screaming between 3 to 3:17 a.m. are highly credible (and would mean that the 3 a.m. sounds were not the fatal gunshots).

If you are looking at this case just now, I recommend you read juror 13.http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/

He provides a very succinct summary of the matter to date.

BBM: I'm pretty sure Juror13 is a "she." She is our Websleuther "lisasalinger." I agree, excellent blog for catching up!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BBM



To me, he seemed to testify he did both. First saying he did, then saying he must have dropped them. Slipping off makes much more sense, but I don't think that was mentioned.

No wonder we all get confused.
I am not a strong believer in OP generally but would have to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one small thing because I have had things fall on the floor many times