Trial - Ross Harris #6

[gitana1]

There are more than explanations for some things on that list- some are just inaccurate, some are distortions, many are innocuous, and others can only be dismissed by assuming Leanna is a liar, the latter for no reason I can understand as rational or logical.

The only items on your list I agree are questionable are those relating to what seem like should have been triggers after Ross arrived at work. For those, I'm waiting to hear the testimony of Dr. D, because I have been reading up on hot car deaths, anD it is the reality that what can seem inexplicable does happen, accidentally.

Which ones are in accurate or distortions? As far as being innocuous, yes. Some are. On their own. Not when put together. I understand evidence and how it works. But let me know what was inaccurate or a distortion? Because much of this I got straight from Ross's own mouth or electronic records.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Baygents said after talking about the cruise he got passports for his kids. He was not aware that Harris never got Cooper a passport.

When asked about a different side of Harris, Baygents said, "I would agree that he made a lot of mistakes." He said what he learned about his brother has been "shocking."

__



Harris didn’t do anything that would lead Baygents to believe his brother saw prostitutes or sent sexually explicit text messages to under-aged teens.

“I just don’t think that anybody would share that with their brother,” Baygents said in response to the prostitutes. He said that he wouldn’t have expected that kind of behavior from his brother.

 

[Hope4More]

I have had the feeling that Ross really looks up to his brother and wanted to impress him. So this must be really hard on him. Very humiliating for him to have his brother see what an epic failure he was.

That doesn't sound very sociopathic.....

 

[dstranger99]

Casey Anthony is walking free too.

"She Drowned"....Whatever his name was, he's a good defense attorney.

 

[gitana1]

100% agree! I think some other "suspicious" things (his demeanor at the scene) were a bit overblown, but it doesn't take away from the many truly suspicious aspects of the case. One by one, you could explain away a weird thing here or a jarring thing there, but, put together, the evidence is pretty convincing. Again, not convinced they have proven intent, bit, IMO, the lower charges should apply.

And notice that I tried not to include some of those possible exaggerations or things the cops may have said to make their case stronger, like about the smell, or even his behaviors at the scene as noted by them. Or any of the sex stuff.

 

[Hope4More]

Which ones are in accurate or distortions? As far as being innocuous, yes. Some are. On their own. Not when put together. I understand evidence and how it works. But let me know what was inaccurate or a distortion? Because much of this I got straight from Ross's own mouth or electronic records.

I've taken the time - a lot of it- many times here to research and post , or explain and post after someone posed a question, only to not receive the courtesy of a reply. I'd be happy to answer you, at length, but respectfully am asking ahead of time-- do you really want that reply?

 

[Zoobiegirl]

I have literally not seen a single post that would defend Ross against all odds or excuse everything he did that day.

There are no Ross Harris fans here that I've noticed.

There are many, however, who believe the State failed to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. That includes me, and I came into this thinking he purposely murdered his child.

That's me as well. I was sure before the trial that he meant to kill Cooper. Now I have to say I have a lot of doubt, particularly due to the way Stoddard and the state acted. They really hyped this up to be something it wasn't and that hurts their credibility. Honestly, after this I would be questioning some of Stoddards results on other cases but that's just me. :moo: And I am usually always pro LEO.

 

[JerseyGirl]

The defense calls as a witness, Amy Baygents, Harris’ sister-in-law.

Baygents and her family spent Thanksgiving and Christmas with Harris, Leanna and Cooper.

“Ross was a very loving dad … attentive, played with him a lot,” she testified about how Harris interacted with Cooper.

Harris pushed him in the stroller, carried Cooper around, got ice cream, Baygents said. “He always helped out with bedtime, bath time, feeding.” She said. “Leanna and Ross were both very hands on parents and seemed to both take on those responsibilities together.”

 

[Bravo]

IMO Leanne had her own set of issues. She was the perfect partner for Ross. In his eyes.

 

[minor4th]

That is a very good point. I just wish he had shown the same level of humiliation that he failed his son by leaving him in a hot car.

He did

 

[JerseyGirl]

Amy Baygents said she knew of intimacy problems between Leanna and Ross, but said there were no problems between Ross and Cooper.

 

[PaperDoll]

I know we're not quite at the end of the trial yet, but I'm curious if anyone has changed their mind about the case during the trial? Did you originally think one thing and now think another?

As for me, I never really thought he intended to murder Cooper. But, during the State's case, I did start to wonder if maybe he did. However, there is enough reasonable doubt for me that I couldn't convict on that charge.

I think his negligence caused the death of Cooper - it wasn't just "oops, I forgot." And, for that negligence, I think he should be found guilty. So, my opinion is back where it was at the beginning.

How about you? Anything change for you? Or reinforced?

(My pet theory that he left Cooper on purpose "just for a minute" while he checked into work still is on my mind. I realize they will not bring that up because it would admit guilt of knowingly leaving him....but I still suspect that is what happened.)

jmo

(Before I answer that, I’mtyping this is a Word doc so my words may run together, sorry, the Quick Replyis a pain to type in, very SLOW)

Nope, my mind hasn’t changed since this started. I’m on the guilty on all accounts side of the fence.. To me the DT can’t explain away the drive to CFA, inside CFA with Cooper, straps him in car seat and in 30 seconds forgets he’s there? Then goes to work, pulls into parking space, waits 30 seconds to exit car and doesn’t even see him when getting his coffee and brief case? Nope,doesn’t fly with me. Plus, he neverforgot him before, Ross’ words, so why on that hot day? Why not forget him at CFA? Nothing can explain that away for me.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Boring is now cross-examining Baygents.

Harris at one point was trying to ... an adults-only type of vacation.

__

Baygents said she had followed up with Harris about whether he had talked to the travel agents about the cruise.
He said yes.

Harris lied and had never followed up with the travel agent, although he did two minutes later after that text exchange, Boring said.

Baygents said she didn’t initially know about the problems Harris and Leanna were having in their marriage.

On one of their visits to Harris’ house, she learned of a message exchange. Harris came in and told her and her husband that they had a fight. Leanna forced Harris to tell them.

“That’s the first I learned that there were any problems in the marriage,” Baygents testified.

 

[Bravo]

IMO Ross did not look up to his Brother. He just tried to impress as he did everyone else. Typical of a Socio. Cooper was nothing more than a prop to him.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Baygents said she was shocked by Harris. She also testified that she was unaware that he was having trouble at work. Harris never told her that he was having an affair with an 18-year-old or seeing prostitutes, Boring pointed out.

The prosecution in many of its cross-examinations today that Harris led a double life his family and friends knew nothing about.

__

afternoon recess.

 

[Hope4More]

Some coincidences or discrepancies or suspicious behaviors:
1. Just happened to stop taking daily photos of Cooper a couple weeks before incident. (I don't believe anything his ex says).
2. Ross watched a news report just recently about a guy who became an advocate after leaving his kid in a hot car, and as a result of the video, Ross has been turning and looking behind him at the car seat so he won't forget Copper, "because the worst fear of me is leaving my son in a hot car." He just coincidentally happened not to turn and "look again" that particular day. (I re watched the tape. Those were his exact words. It WAS his "worst" fear).
3. In addition to watching the news report about the man turned advocate who left his kid in the car, and having that impact him enough that he started to look behind him so he wouldn't forget Cooper, he also, right before Cooper died, watched a video of a vet showing exactly how hot it gets for dogs in the car. He watched the whole thing. And then left his son in the car shortly after.
4. The day before Cooper died, LH texted, “Don’t forget Cooper.” Answer, “NEVER.”
5. Typically doesn't go into Chik-fil-A to eat. Uses the drive-thru. Just happened to do so that day with his son, conveniently getting him on camera that morning. (Ross was a regular but the worker who helped him had never met Cooper before. Ross stated he usually went through the drive thru, which, by the way, would make it more believable that he had forgotten Cooper as opposed to actually taking him out of the car seat and interacting in the restaurant with him).
6. Often buys CFA for the workers at the daycare. Coincidentally did not order food for them that day.
7. Even though he usually calls the daycare when he's running late, he didn't that day, despite being quite late.
8. Cooper was wide awake when exiting the restaurant, but just happened to fall instantly asleep while parked in his car seat in the parking lot, before even driving off and stayed deeply asleep for the next six minutes. Cooper just happened to say nothing and made no noise the moment he was placed in the car. This is despite the fact that Ross stated that Cooper falls asleep real easily when you drive the car. Not when he's sitting in a parked car, not moving, which some feel happened for a few minutes before Ross left the parking lot.
9. He forgot his son in either a couple minutes after strapping him in tightly and kissing him or less than a minute after doing so. Protestations to the contrary, Cooper is not a cup of coffee. And I don't believe Ross was lulled into autopilot in a parked car or while driving 40 seconds to a turn. The cases I've read don't indicate something happening that quickly or in that manner.
10. For six to 7 minutes after leaving CFA, Ross didn't see his son although is proximity to the car seat and Cooper's head in that car was incredible. However magically, later that day, he saw his son when making a turn.
11. Despite his defense likely claiming distraction, or maybe exhaustion, Ross Harris has a very detailed, clear memory of every step he took the day Cooper died. So he remembered every damn minute of the day but forgot his son.
12. Ross just happened to park his car that morning, in a manner that involved backing in, but didn’t see his kid as he did so.
13. Communications about kids being at their childcare or getting there are often triggers for parents who accidentally left them in the car. But not for Ross. Not ever for Ross: Text from LH: “Get to work ok?” Wasn’t a trigger, even though the questio had a ‘safety” implication. And could trigger a memory of driving to work and to childcare.
14. He talked about his son at 11:17 a.m - not a trigger.
15. Email about his son? Not a trigger.
16. That day he texted: “When are you getting my buddy?” Not a trigger.
17. He just happened to have to go back to his car that afternoon to put something in it, but instead of putting the item in the back seat as many do, or carefully on the passenger seat, he tossed the fragile items in the front driver’s side, keeping his head above the roof line, and not looking or placing the items.
18. He just happened to coincidentally give some personal info about his plans to a security guard although he had never done so before.
19. He just happened to coincidentally take a longer route to the movies to meet his friends that evening - one that would have him drive by a crowded parking lot where he ‘discovered” his son.
20. A paramedic - not a cop - with no reason to lie, stated Ross showed no emotion when he pronounced the child dead.
21. His son is dead but he can, the very day he died, talk about wanting to be an advocate for hot car death prevention.
22. Ross was nonchalant as video showed, when he went into jail reception after arrest, sat with a relaxed posture and had small talk with another inmate. The day his son died.

These are not all, but some. And while I know there are possible explanations for each, when we find ourselves having to repeatedly contort and stretch to find an explanation as to why not one, not two, not three or four or five or six or seven but multiple coincidences don't add up to anything, I think logic an rationality are slipping a bit.

Until a yes...

#4. The reference to forgetting was about Ross forgetting to pick up Cooper from daycare, not about dropping him off, and the context was what seems to have been a fairly regular afternoon negotiation, based on work schedules.

#5. Ross didn't typically go into CFA to eat breakfast. That's true and also relevant. Ms. Meadows testified that Ross DID typically take Cooper inside to eat, though, which made that a break in his routine.

The manager's knowledge of RH was limited to having seen RH all of 12 times total, and typically at lunch, though Ross seems to have gone to CFA almost daily for breakfast, and quite often for lunch as well.

#6. Ross did not "often" buy CFA for daycare teachers, he did so infrequently, and at their request, not independently.

For starters.

 

[just the facts pls]

(Before I answer that, I’mtyping this is a Word doc so my words may run together, sorry, the Quick Replyis a pain to type in, very SLOW)

Nope, my mind hasn’t changed since this started. I’m on the guilty on all accounts side of the fence.. To me the DT can’t explain away the drive to CFA, inside CFA with Cooper, straps him in car seat and in 30 seconds forgets he’s there? Then goes to work, pulls into parking space, waits 30 seconds to exit car and doesn’t even see him when getting his coffee and brief case? Nope,doesn’t fly with me. Plus, he neverforgot him before, Ross’ words, so why on that hot day? Why not forget him at CFA? Nothing can explain that away for me.

I agree, plus I cannot get over the conversation he was having about escaping his son only moments before leaving him in a hot car. I know I'm a broken record: I simply do not believe that someone can forget someone else while they are actually talking about them, because they are immediately in their mind.

Second to that is the small SUV and the size and color of the car seat right between the front seats. I'm supposed to believe, despite the closed (and acoustic) environment of the car that JRH not only forgot Cooper, but that he somehow didn't see or hear Cooper. Cooper was right there only inches away from him.

I have the same problem when JRH got into the car after work. I have a hard time believing that turning and reaching to the right to get his briefcase or put his briefcase down that he would not see Cooper. There is also the issue of a smell being in the car, and I think a lot of posters have brought up a good point that even leaving food or dirty socks in the car for several hours would make the car stink. I cannot believe even for a second that poor Cooper sitting in a urine soaked diaper and sweat soaked clothes would have not produced a smell after seven long hours. Even if there was no smell of decomposition (I also find that hard to believe) there would have been a smell of something.

Those are the major points I cannot overcome. All other evidence is supportive, IMO.

 

[Zoobiegirl]

Yes, that one was here in my state. Hot Springs Ar. He was acquitted in Aug 2016, happened in 2015. Dr Diamond also testified in his case. I didn't follow that one real close becaue there was a lot of politics going on there. Allegations that he wasn't charged as fast as someone else would have been. THEN LEO lost evidence in the case. And since he was acquitted, he didn't have to step down from the bench. (And it was kinda crazy similar as the RH case yet RH was 2014. **and the part you quoted, THAT was the baby that passed away's Pediatrician saying that quote happen to the DR.

Heres more with the Judge:

According to Tweets from Drew Petrimoulx of our news partner KARK, the scientist is talking about how small acts can "restart habit functions. In this case, Narmaore normally took his son to daycare before going to work. But he stopped for a McDonald's breakfast. The suggestion is that this caused a restart of a habit to drive to work. The expert also spoke of the familiar happenstance of drivers who place a cup of coffee or some other object atop a car before getting in, then forgetting it when driving off.

Dr. David Diamond, a Florida academic, said he was being paid $10,000 by the defense to testify about his study of "forgotten baby syndrome." The bottom line: It can happen to anyone. http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...neuroscientist-in-naramore-hot-car-death-case

A couple of years ago my husband read a science article that described memory as "rooms" and talked about resetting a memory by going through a doorway. You know how you want something from another room but by the time you get there you have forgotten what you wanted? You can reset that by going BACK THROUGH that doorway! Try it sometime, it really works. Ever since I read that when I forget what I came for I go back though the doorway I entered and presto, now I can remember!

 

[popsicle]

Wes Wolfe ‏@WesWolfeBN 10m10 minutes agoBrunswick, GA
ABC staffer in media room says GMA never offered to pay for Leanna Taylor's bff's intvw. Says it was Inside Edition. #RossHarris

 

[gitana1]

I've taken the time - a lot of it- many times here to research and post , or explain and post after someone posed a question, only to not receive the courtesy of a reply. I'd be happy to answer you, at length, but respectfully am asking ahead of time-- do you really want that reply?

Yes of course. I am interested in what you have to say and won't discount it or ignore it merely because I have an opinion that currently differs from yours. But I might not have the same attitude about certain facts as you do.