Trial - Ross Harris #7

[monkeypants]

So? They should have planned to leave him at home? I can only imagine what would have been said then...

You've completely missed my point. I was responding to someone stating that they thought it was great that he was trying to create memories for his child.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[dizzychick]

Because if RH is acquitted there is basically no way LH can ever be pursued any further as a suspect. LH's mom wants to close the door on this case so that her own daughter isn't at risk for any part she may have played in Cooper's death, because she is still technically a suspect if I understand it right.

oh wow didnt think of that, great point

 

[arkansasmimi]

:waitasec: So when did the State prove beyond a reasonable doubt that RH murdered his son? When was the premeditation? Seems like they wanting it both ways on some things. I bet the jury is scratching their head at times.

Did anyone else see Evans lean his head back and look at the ceiling this morning. I find it interesting watching them. They cover their face, Boring puts his face in his hands with elbows on table. Or when Evans gets pissed, Lumpkin doesn't let his ruffled feathers show like the rest do. Rodriguez is diff too. Pretty interesting. JMHO Just glad they aren't acting like Jeff Ashton and his laughing.

 

[katydid23]

So the guy, kills his kid, screws up his marriage, screws up work.. all this stuff just so he can chat with females online, send photos. Get a bj here and there. Met a prostitute once... this isn't reality. None of it is.

:banghead:

No, he screws up all of this stuff because he is depressed and perhaps has deeper mental health issues.

It seems pretty obvious that he had given up at work already. His project manager made that pretty clear, imo. Ross was trying to duck the morning work check in calls and was not turning in his own work product. His response to that crisis was to go to breakfast with his kid, come in late, duck the call, leave for lunch and leave early for a movie with friends. OBVIOUSLY he was just accepting whatever happened at work and was not trying to save his job.

What about his marriage? It did not seem like he was trying to save that either. He was actually sabotaging his marriage. It was just a matter of time before his wife found out about his cheating again.

It was not just about chatting online, sending photos etc. It was about him wanting to RESET his life. He didn't want that job anymore, didn't want to be stuck in an unhappy marriage anymore---he wanted it all to end so he could have an escape---a 'break from love' as he agreed by that comment, minutes before the tragedy began to unfold.

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't understand why you think that is such a silly argument by the State.

Ross's compulsions and dirty secrets paint a picture of a very self indulgent, selfish, impulsive, immature narcissistic type of individual. Why would they ignore that type of behavior when trying to figure out if he had the compulsion to get rid of his kid?

I agree with this, but I don't think it makes him a baby murderer... People who killed babies in awful ways have to be separated from the general population in prison, because even hardened criminals and murderers usually despise people who are cruel to children... And it takes an extremely cruel person to intentionally lock their baby in the car and leave him to slowly bake to death. I just haven't seen any evidence that RH is capable of that kind of evil.

 

[DaleTray]

I agree. For example a 3.5% down payment on a $200,000 home (average single family home price in Atlanta IIRC) is $7000
Ross spent $375 on one hooker (there may have been others as well). That's over 5% of the $7,000 the family needs for a home for his son

I missed the $375.00 I hope she was a looker or provided above avg services. I thought I heard $125.00 and still thought RH was paying too much

 

[LeeCR7]

I don't think there's much doubt that the State is using the sexual double life meme to argue two things , one explicit, the other implied:


Explicit- yes, RH's double life reveals that he wanted to escape his responsibilities, etc.

Implicit- that the "depth" of his sexual transgressions, and the fact he could hide them so well, is evidence he was capable of murdering Cooper. An argument, to point out the obvious, that holds sway with a number of posters here.

You may be right about the implicit argument, although, again, it wouldn't sway me. It would be the totality of the direct evidence.

I'm not as bothered as others with how much they have discussed the sexting, as it is one of the charges, and the state has a responsibility to call witnesses to that effect. Whether the sexting should have been part of a different trial is another matter, but as it is, it seems fair game to me.

OT: I just finished teaching a lesson about implicit and explicit to my college freshmen this morning. I should have shown the trial. Then I could have actually watched it instead of just reading about it.

 

[GA_Peach]

Just curious, if Ross had told all his buddies that he was cheating on his wife, and sexting teens, would it make anyone feel like he was a better person? Would it still not be a 'double life'?

The idea that you cannot truly *know* a person unless you know every secret about them, means that not one of my friends or family members knows me or can vouch for the type of person I am. I find that pretty silly.

I don't find it silly at all. If I don't know that my husband likes a few extra squirts of butter on his movie popcorn, then it would be silly to say that I do not know him.

However, we are not talking about butter at the movies. We are talking about a major part of Ross's life. He successfully hid the full depths of his sexual deviance from all of those who surrounded him on a daily basis. Do I think that those around Ross knew him? Absolutely not.

Also I would feel differently if these were things that happened years ago in Ross's life. I believe that people can and do change. If Ross had been able to successfully move past his sexual appepitite for minor children, I wouldn't expect him to advertise that part of himself to the world. Everyone wants to put his best foot forward. However, when a person has a dark side and the rest of the world is completely unaware of those tendencies, I don't think that anyone really knows that person.

I don't think there's much doubt that the State is using the sexual double life meme to argue two things , one explicit, the other implied:


Explicit- yes, RH's double life reveals that he wanted to escape his responsibilities, etc.

Implicit- that the "depth" of his sexual transgressions, and the fact he could hide them so well, is evidence he was capable of murdering Cooper. An argument, to point out the obvious, that holds sway with a number of posters here.

I happen to buy the explicit and implicit implications of the State's case. I fully believe that Ross was capable of killing Cooper, which is not how I felt at the beginning of the trial, but just because he is capable doesn't mean that he acted on it. I am still not completely sold on intent, but I find the implicit argument exceptionally compelling.

Today's testimony, Boring on cross soliciting from RH's coworker that Ross didnt seemed stressed about the project meeting, and that there was no reason for Ross to be stressed, given it was an initial meet and plan session.

1.Ross was assigned as project manager for the project, the first time he'd been given that responsibility.

Questions that raises-- Just how bad could his work performance have been to have been given that responsibility? And, is it unreasonable to believe Ross might have been stressed by taking on the rsponsiblity, given he was behind on other projects?

Related. The State wants on the one hand to say RH wasn't stressed on the 18th, but on the other hand, to argue RH was so stressed by his double life and ready to crack that he decided to kill Cooper that day. Which is it?

BBM

I pointed out the other side of this argument yesterday. When the DT was cross examining the State's witnesses, they wanted Ross's behavior to be characterized as "normal." They wanted it took like there was nothing out of the ordinary in Ross's life. Now on direct, the DT wants Ross to appear stressed and over-worked, likely laying the groundwork for Dr. Diamond's FBS theory.

It's interesting how both sides have played game.

The defense keeps asking the witnesses what do they think about RH.
Is he a great guy/friend? Oh yes.
Did you know about all this other crap? Oh no, I never dreamed.
Was he a good dad? Oh, yes, a great dad.
Would he kill his child? Oh no, never.

What they know and what he is, are not necessarily the same thing. Whether they think he would kill his child has no bearing on whether he would kill his child.
Truth is, do you ever REALLY know someone, if they don't want you to?

MOO

Amen.

 

[Hope4More]

I understand that you don't see it that way. But I guess what I disagree with is that you say that LE is so silly and ridiculous for even considering it had any relevance. Because I bet it is at least 50/50 that people think it might be very relevant. You may not see it as having any impact, but many others do see it that way.

That was definitely an IMO. I am finding it sillier. The State has made it's case, has no more evidence to introduce, and for me, the DT is doing a great job of normalizing Ross (to the degree that can be done, lol), and of putting so much of the State's evidence in context.

I'm very aware others here see it differently, but imo, if this jury is truly impartial, they're going to find reasonable doubt on malice murder, which is the only charge for which consideration of the double life sex stuff is directly relevant.

 

[just the facts pls]

Plus, Ross knew if he told people the truth about the level he'd fallen ( hookers, teenagers, glory holes) to most would have dumped him as a friend. His wife made it clear to him if she found out he had a physical relationship outside of their marriage she would leave him and take their son

We found out today that JRH had at least two friends he could have confided in, if he wanted to. I think the reason why he didn't is because he knew that his friends would have encouraged him to get help and change. JRH did not want to change. JRH did not want anyone, including his own family and friends to get in the way of his sexcapades. I said in the early part of this trial that I thought it was weird that nobody knew JRH since almost everyone has at least one friend who refuses to judge them. JRH had two very intelligent and sympathetic friends he could have turned to. JRH did not have to live a double life, but he chose to anyway.

I don't know about LH. She seems to talk a big game but I don't think she would have left JRH. I think JRH either knew that or wanted LH to divorce him which is why he cheated anyway. LH testified she came from a divorced family and would not divorce JRH for Cooper. JRH also did not want to initiate divorce because of Cooper. Poor little Cooper was the only thing keeping these two together against their own better judgement. Sadly, Cooper was the first to go so JRH could free to live how he wished IMO.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I have a question.

Now Ross was a computer tech at Home Depot hq.

So what position did he apply for at Chick-fil-A?

 

[DeDee]

BBM

I thought it was very interesting that he was being made project manager on the next round. Here is why---

First, have to say that my husband works in a similar type of situation. He works on salary, with flexible hours , as a staff writer for a television station. They work in teams on particular projects. And each writer is given a certain episode to write with a team of 3, and they divvy up the work, and have bi-weekly meetings etc.

He has worked for various stations/entertainment corporations for 25 years so he knows how the group dynamic works.

He has mentioned in the past, that if someone is slacking, or in danger of being let go at the next contract, the Head Writer will often give that writer MORE responsibility on the next project. they do so to see if the person can step up or not. And also, it gives them a solid reason to drop them if they drop the ball on a project they are ultimately responsible for. When you are Project Manager or 'Lead Writer' on a project, then you cannot dodge calls or skip out on meetings, without severe consequences and bad write ups.

So I wonder if they were trying a similar thing with Ross.

Speaking of Project Managers, my SIL was PM, at a large firm, for the Super Dome renovation after Katrina. Although they lived in Dallas at the time, my children relocated to the NOLA area for his career with this firm. One day there was a volunteer evacuation due to an incoming hurricane. Before lunch, the staff was informed that if they had needs to take care of then, there would be an excused absence for the remainder of the afternoon. My SIL went home. He chained down outdoor furniture and fastened the outer window shutters. Then, he returned to work. Do you think his bosses noticed? You betcha they did. That November, my SIL was invited to travel as a member of the firm to the Architectural Firm of the Year convention. His firm won the prestigious title. He was allowed onstage with the rest of the Firm to accept the award. When he returned home from the trip, he was offered a position that he holds to this day. Work ethic matters.

JRHs work ethic was the pits. He abused Home Depot's generous employee policies which was jeopardizing his current employment and risking his families financial security.

 

[Nana46]

anybody have a link to live trial?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Because if RH is acquitted there is basically no way LH can ever be pursued any further as a suspect. LH's mom wants to close the door on this case so that her own daughter isn't at risk for any part she may have played in Cooper's death, because she is still technically a suspect if I understand it right. ETA: just because they haven't found evidence of her involvement that rose to the level of pressing charges against her doesn't mean they won't in the future... The police may not be actively investigating her at this time, but that could change in the future. SO LH's mom, who has lost a lot in all of this, wants to get this over and done with any way possible and protect her own kid so that she doesn't lose her too.

While I agree with your post, Kilgore made it clear that Deborah did not want to be there and that he would make it as short as possible. So jmho it wasn't like she volunteered to go testify for anyone. But for reasons in your post about LH and that Stoddard has stated in tria she is still listed as a suspect, it gives weight to why her testimony was needed. She did have the photos on her phone of Cooper in the car seat from April 2014. She authenticated those. JMHO

Plus she got to get the point across they do not trust the CCPD, same as LH BFF did.

 

[arkansasmimi]

anybody have a link to live trial?

it is over for the day today. Be back at 8:30 tomorrow morning.

 

[rob]

Is Georgia an employment at will state like Texas ? My guess is this is corporate's 1st step in getting rid of a slacker, when the project fails as they suspect it will whose head is on the chopping block ? Makes for good records/justification. They dont pay those guys 60 - 80 K to pick their butts LOL

He wasn't even picking his butt, he was chasing after everyone elses' on the clock
hahahahahaha

 

[just the facts pls]

I have a question.

Now Ross was a computer tech at Home Depot hq.

So what position did he apply for at Chick-fil-A?

As far as I know, he applied for a similar position after being passed up for a promotion and also Chik-Fil-A offered free day care.

 

[katydid23]

Is Georgia an employment at will state like Texas ? My guess is this is corporate's 1st step in getting rid of a slacker, when the project fails as they suspect it will whose head is on the chopping block ? Makes for good records/justification. They dont pay those guys 60 - 80 K to pick their butts LOL

Exactly what I was trying to say earlier--but you said it more concisely. Making someone a project manager is the perfect way to get it on record if they mess it up by being late and ducking calls and skipping meetings.

 

[DaleTray]

I'm beginning to think that the only defense testimony that rang true was from Leanna when she ended with:

He destroyed my life. I’m humiliated. I may never trust anybody again, the way that I did. If I never see him again after this day, that’s fine.”

Too bad she didn't start her testimony with that line of thinking, it's a shame every other friend/family member didn't have the guts to say it themselves.

I sort of expected the DT to take that angle w more witnesses. Like, I would want jury to hear from say maybe LH mom "yeah, he has ruined our lives. I don't like him" "he was a good dad but a lousy husband" or maybe friends "I had no idea of 2nd side of Ross, he was a good dad but lousy husband I guess" but, I assume if DT goal is to make it appear Ross just forgot CH, they have to portray him as a good man with weakness for women (and men)

 

[GA_Peach]

I believe humans are too multidimensional to be characterized by only their flaws. I have friends with DUIs, problems with drugs, etc. I can still say they are good people despite that.

No one is saying he is a good husband, so your example doesn't really fit, IMO.

People can be good despite multiple flaws. We are after all human.

However, in Leanna's own words, Ross's behavior destroyed her life. Ross was also responsible for the death of his only child. He was sexting with minors. Would you really say that Ross was a a good person?

People can overcome bad events in their past. However, Ross's bad behavior was part of an ongoing problem, and the consequences kept kept growing .