trial thread: 04/03/2012

[Sailor Bug]

n my view a hammer was the class of instrument that caused the head injuries, Pollanen said.

Carnegie has finished. Derstine will cross examine Pollanen tomorrow. Done for the day.

Court adjourned until 10 am tomorrow.

 

[Sillybilly]

It is a natural instinctive response for people to protect their heads, by using their arms to deflect blows.

Is there any evidence that shows VS tried to protect her head?

If not, how was VS held so she couldn't protect her head?

Perhaps she had lost consciousness before the assault with the hammer.

JMO

 

[JayFriend]

Pollanen said Tori Stafford died by blunt impacts to head by a hammer.

Injuries to torso could also have been fatal.

Tori was hit three times with the claw end of the hammer, once with the other end. Also punched, kicked, thrown on the ground.

The amount of force used was "considerable."

Bleeding from the head, inhalation of blood, torso injuries all contributed to Tori's death

[BBM] If TLM had wanted to put Tori out of her misery by killing her with the hammer, wouldn't she have used the head of the hammer? Hitting with the claw end would cause pain and inflict lacerations. Similarly, punching and kicking would be something one would do to cause pain rather than death. JMO

 

[Macright]

That's what a normal person does!!! THEY CALL 911.

agree..but I don't consider these two "normal"...to what degree each is depraved I haven't decided as yet......:moo:

 

[Wondergirl]

It is a natural instinctive response for people to protect their heads, by using their arms to deflect blows.

Is there any evidence that shows VS tried to protect her head?

If not, how was VS held so she couldn't protect her head?

That is assuming she could see.

I agree, someone else could have been holding her down.

 

[~n/t~]

Monsters!! :furious:

Tori's Law
http://www.petitiononline.com/vict888/petition.html

 

[Ardy]

That's what a normal person does!!! THEY CALL 911.

I doubt many normal people have ever found themselves in such a position, so I wouldn't know how to gauge a normal response.

I would have called 911 and stayed right there. I would have waited for the police, and expected to be arrested and charged, especially if TLM claimed that I did it. I would refuse to talk to the police and obtain a top lawyer. I would probably be on trial right now, instead of MR.

Still...........MR did take the cowardly way out. (if he is indeed innocent)

 

[matou]

These facial fracture injuries could have been caused by MR IMHO. He got sexually frustrated with Tori and punched her in the face, again JMHO. Sick, sick, sick. The fact that he was with this child from the time she got into his car until she ended up under those rocks proves he was involved, bottom line. Lock him up and throw away the key. Both of them. Just disgusting and heartbreaking to hear what was done to poor Tori. These are evil, sick minded people (I don't even like to classify them as people but...) and do not deserve to be free. Cage them up. :moo: The fact Tori was found without her little panties, tights and skirt on is a very strong indication she was sexually assaulted and I feel confident the jurors will find this as powerful evidence against MR. :moo:

As soon as I read about the facial injuries, I thought about him punching her right in the face and breaking her nose and cheekbones. He could have broke the skin in his hand from this and caused his own bleeding from his hand. If he touched his gym bag, he could have mixed his own blood with Tori's blood from him breaking her nose. I've seen the same type of facial injury as described by the chief pathologist and it was done by the person who raped and killed that victim. It took violent force. This facial hit could have caused the gurgling sound and swallowing blood as well as the liver injuries could have made the gurgling sound. Rapists hate their victims, he could have hit her to make her stop crying or because he was disappointed with something. This just makes me think he is responsible for this horrible deviant death. JMO

also: TLM said that Tori was motionless on the ground when she approached the car in her version 2. Why was she motionless? Because she was punched in the face? JMO

 

[myzzy]

OMG!

RaffertyLFP:
Death could have occurred April through July, Pollanen said. [via Twitter]


RaffertyLFP:
Based upon autopsy can't say when death occurred. [via Twitter]

This hurts my heart more than anything so far with this case. I was hopeful that her passing was immediate and with as little pain as possible.... what a tough day of testimony to take. Poor little angel.

I pray she passed quickly and did not linger on waiting for someone to help her. She did not deserve to die that night. RIP



As for the hammer. I find it hard to believe that anyone would hold the hammer incorrectly, But then again i could be wrong.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

He is..........until the Crown proves otherwise.

Well then can you explain why his defense lawyer is suggesting that he was there and helped clean up the murder scene? To me, that sounds like someone who is guilty of something... the least of which was cleaning up after the murder. I didn't say he was guilty of anything else.

 

[Macright]

from what I have read today I would have to say that there was a lot of rage associated with this murder by someone..a small child inflicted with so many blows when I am sure if the purpose behind it was to kill her one would think a swift blow to the head would have been suffice... so very sad... it almost resembles a sadistic killing....long and drawn out..JMO

 

[Ardy]

That is assuming she could see.

I agree, someone else could have been holding her down.

Or.........TLM could have thrown VS to the ground, kicked her repeatedly, and then sat on her chest, pinning her arms to the ground, while she reigned blows down.

Whatever version is true..........we know this much.

Whoever committed the murder was in a furious, murderous rage........and of the two involved, TLM was the one with a long, long history of similar behavour and had demonstrated in the past she was not only capable of it, but prone to it.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

He could have called 911 and perhaps saved her life if he's so innocent. :furious:

I'm not sure she would have been alive after the head trauma. I'm wondering if he meant that it was after the kicking, etc that she would have still been alive. I really doubt she would be alive after the head injuries. That's the way I interpret it. I mean she was tiny, 4 blows to the head would be overkill imo.

 

[SmoothOperator]

MR was reported to have worked in construction and landscaping and had been asked my BA to help her with her pool..........so he would know which end of the hammer to use.

The fact that the "claw" end was used at least once, indicates that TLM did in fact issue the blows. That end of the hammer is designed to pull out nails, and can bounce off an object if used to strike with force.

Anyone who has worked in construction would know that.

This is not true... by any stretch of the imagination this not in the very least true.. fact is that multitudes of murders have been committed with the claw end of a hammer.. murders committed by both men, who knew full well what the uses were for each end of a claw hammer, as well as used by women..

IMO for the conclusion to be drawn that it was automatically TLM who wielded the hammer due to the fact that the claw end was used in inflicted the death blows is IMO baseless and nonsensical.. IMO the only thing it is indicative of is brutality and IMO down right cold blooded evil to have taken a claw hammer to the head of a beautiful, innocent, young girl and inflicted injuries that caused suffering, long suffering and not an immediate death.. IMO it doesn't have a damn thing to do with "construction" knowledge the fact that there are multitudes of murders committed with the claw end of a hammer IMO clearly shows it hasn't a damn thing to do with construction knowledge.. :moo:

 

[Sailor Bug]

As soon as I read about the facial injuries, I thought about him punching her right in the face and breaking her nose and cheekbones. He could have broke the skin in his hand from this and caused his own bleeding from his hand. If he touched his gym bag, he could have mixed his own blood with Tori's blood from him breaking her nose. I've seen the same type of facial injury as described by the chief pathologist and it was done by the person who raped and killed that victim. It took violent force. This facial hit could have caused the gurgling sound and swallowing blood as well as the liver injuries. Rapists hate their victims, he could have hit her to make her stop crying or because he was disappointed with something. This just makes me think he is responsible for this horrible deviant death. JMO

also: TLM said that Tori was motionless on the ground when she approached the car in her version 2. Why was she motionless? Because she was punched in the face? JMO

:goodpost:Thank you matou...this is exactly what I feel happened jmo


What a horrific day:tears:fftobed:

 

[Ardy]

Well then can you explain why his defense lawyer is suggesting that he was there and helped clean up the murder scene? To me, that sounds like someone who is guilty of something... the least of which was cleaning up after the murder. I didn't say he was guilty of anything else.

He most certainly would be guilty of multiple crimes, even if the defense theory is true.

But as far as I know, he hasn't been charged with those crimes.

I don't know why he wasn't.

As far as I know he is charged with first degree murder, sexual assault, and unlawful confinement. (altered from a original kidnapping charge)

 

[Wondergirl]

Or.........TLM could have thrown VS to the ground, kicked her repeatedly, and then sat on her chest, pinning her arms to the ground, while she reigned blows down.

Whatever version is true..........we know this much.

Whoever committed the murder was in a furious, murderous rage........and of the two involved, TLM was the one with a long, long history of similar behavour and had demonstrated in the past she was not only capable of it, but prone to it.

Or......MTR could have thrown VS to the ground, kicked her repeatedly, and then sat on her chest, pinning her armst to the ground, while he reigned blows down.

BBM: I agree, both are involved.

http://cdn.dipity.com/uploads/events/01ba5a29380fbff8e3daed7cee296a03_1M.png

 

[matou]

Or......MTR could have thrown VS to the ground, kicked her repeatedly, and then sat on her chest, pinning her armst to the ground, while he reigned blows down.

BBM: I agree, both are involved.

http://cdn.dipity.com/uploads/events/01ba5a29380fbff8e3daed7cee296a03_1M.png

Was Tori his punching bag I wonder? JMO

 

[~n/t~]

I'm not sure she would have been alive after the head trauma. I'm wondering if he meant that it was after the kicking, etc that she would have still been alive. I really doubt she would be alive after the head injuries. That's the way I interpret it. I mean she was tiny, 4 blows to the head would be overkill imo.

He testified that he did not know when time of death was. It could've been in April, May, June or even July. I realize the chances that she was still alive are very slim and even if she was, the damage was done and she probably would not have survived.

My point is, he was there. He saw a beaten little girl. If he was so innocent as some make him out to be, he would have called 911 on the blackberry he loves so much. He could have restrained TLM. He's much bigger and stronger than her IMO.

He DID NOT. He DID NOTHING except help bury her underneath piles of rocks and fled with the other killer and lied.

<Mod Snip>

 

[Wondergirl]

Melanie Nagy&#8207;@NagyCBC

Court is finished for day at #Rafferty trial.I will have more on CBC's the National or check out http://cbc.ca/news