trial thread: 04/03/2012

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~

Whoever committed the murder was in a furious, murderous rage........and of the two involved, TLM was the one with a long, long history of similar behavour and had demonstrated in the past she was not only capable of it, but prone to it.

It sure doesn't bode well for MR though - with all this rage - there is no way in Hades he could have innocently stood by and not tried to help Victoria. And then to follow it up with lying, etc. to LE - refusing to say what happened and where Victoria was - is about as disgusting as it comes. His own lawyer implies MR was there, cleaning up the scene - in my opinion - you don't clean up a scene like this and then try to hide it, unless you have a reason too, unless you are involved in this ugliness.

This is horrifying.

Salem

 

[Macright]

He testified that he did not know when time of death was. It could've been in April, May, June or even July. I realize the chances that she was still alive are very slim and even if she was, the damage was done and she probably would not have survived.

My point is, he was there. He saw a beaten little girl. If he was so innocent as some make him out to be, he would have called 911 on the blackberry he loves so much. He could have restrained TLM. He's much bigger and stronger than her IMO.

He DID NOT. He DID NOTHING except help bury her underneath piles of rocks and fled with the other killer and lied.

<Mod Snip>!

after what we know today about her injuries I think the reason he said her death was between April and July (when she was found) was because he could not give an exact time of death so he was being general..we know she would not have lasted too long especially with those head injuries..she more than likely would have lapsed into a coma after the first blow...:moo:

 

[swedie]

I'm unsure how far away the remains were from the rock pile, but wondered right from the beginning if some of those rocks could have rolled down from the pile onto it. Initially, it occurred to me that disturbing the pile when they allegedly removed some might have been responsible for a mini-rock slide. Now that we know that more rocks were added to the pile, it seems even more feasible that some of them (especially the really heavy ones) could have slid down on top of the body. I just couldn't see either of them lifting 100+ pound rocks when there were smaller ones. Forgive the pun, but it sounded like overkill.

JMO

That rock pile is huge, and who's to say more rocks where added to that area of the pile near the tree. I believe when the rock pile was started many years ago, the deposited rocks at the end by the tree and have since worked their way away from the tree. :moo: As you can see in the video at 54 seconds, it appears there is long weed growth coming up through that end of the rock pile, which would indicate to me no rocks had been dumped there in a long time. Also why would they put rocks so close to that end of the pile to possibly affect the growth of that tree? IMO the rocks were added to the other end or middle of the pile. That could also be the reason the beef farmer did not notice the smell of decomp, as he wasn't close to that end of the rock pile.

Doesn't sound like overkill to me when you get two sick minds working together to hide a body in hopes they will never get caught.:moo: The Crown should have tacked on indignity to a deceased body as his defense states he help hide Tori's body. :moo:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/...don/raffertytrial/2012/03/30/pf-19573891.html

 

[Mom who cares]

Thank again everyone for posting the tweets! What a day, huh? Rest in peace, sweet Tori.

 

[roseofsharon]

or by a raged filled female as she has stated under oath...

Regardless, HE was there, HE could have stopped it!!!!!!!!

If he is innocent, other than the clean-up, as his defence claims then

SHAME ON YOU MTR!!!

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

after what we know today about her injuries I think the reason he said her death was between April and July (when she was found) was because he could not give an exact time of death so he was being general..we know she would not have lasted too long especially with those head injuries..she more than likely would have lapsed into a coma after the first blow...:moo:

Isn't that what I said in my post? The chances Tori was alive was slim and even if she was for a few hours, the damage was so severe she probably would not have survived anyway. My point is he was there. He saw a beaten child and did NOTHING to help or stop it. Instead he helped the other killer dispose of her piled underneath rocks!

They disgust me. God, I pray the death penalty comes back. These 2 should be on that list!

 

[matou]

And an innocent man was charged and sentenced for that rape and murder as well.

Dilbert: I worked on this case as a case study with the person who did the second autopsy and investigation of the bones. I know the person accused didn't do it. The person who did this to Tori was either TLM or MR and my opinion is that MR punched Tori in the face based on what I have seen before in this other case. JMO

 

[Ardy]

~Respectfully snipped~

It sure doesn't bode well for MR though - with all this rage - there is no way in Hades he could have innocently stood by and not tried to help Victoria. And then to follow it up with lying, etc. to LE - refusing to say what happened and where Victoria was - is about as disgusting as it comes. His own lawyer implies MR was there, cleaning up the scene - in my opinion - you don't clean up a scene like this and then try to hide it, unless you have a reason too, unless you are involved in this ugliness.

This is horrifying.

Salem

I agree totally and there are no excuses for his behaviour following the crime.

None whatsoever............nothing he says can excuse it.

But he isn't on trial for his conduct afterwards, unless it is relative to the charges against him.

 

[flipflop]

ughh...just finished reading todays posts OMG, it was hard enough just to read what this poor innocent child went through. Tears come to my eyes when I think of RS and TM sitting in the court room today.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

He testified that he did not know when time of death was. It could've been in April, May, June or even July. I realize the chances that she was still alive are very slim and even if she was, the damage was done and she probably would not have survived.

My point is, he was there. He saw a beaten little girl. If he was so innocent as some make him out to be, he would have called 911 on the blackberry he loves so much. He could have restrained TLM. He's much bigger and stronger than her IMO.

He DID NOT. He DID NOTHING except help bury her underneath piles of rocks and fled with the other killer and lied.

SICK SICK MONSTERS!

Erm I'm not sure I understand your response to my post

 

[Salem]

I agree totally and there are no excuses for his behaviour following the crime.

None whatsoever............nothing he says can excuse it.

But he isn't on trial for his conduct afterwards, unless it is relative to the charges against him.

He is on trial for working in concert to bring about the death of Victoria Elizabeth Stafford. And - it appears that he did work in concert with TLM to bring about Tori's death because he did nothing to stop it, nothing to help an innocent, defenseless child, nothing. So... if he worked with TLM and the jury agrees with that (I personally think it is pretty obvious), he will be found guilty of First Degree Murder and given that his attorney places him at the murder scene, for me, its a done deal.

Salem

 

[~n/t~]

Dilbert: I worked on this case as a case study with the person who did the second autopsy and investigation of the bones. I know the person accused didn't do it. The person who did this to Tori was either TLM or MR and my opinion is that MR punched Tori in the face based on what I have seen before in this other case. JMO

In this case, I have no doubt now that he crushed her little body and broke her ribs when he was on top of her raping her.

 

[lightlady]

Just a question for those of you in the legal know.. Does it matter here who yielded the hammer or did the killing blows under Canadian law? If you are present when the killing happens but did not do the actual killing, are you equally as guilty? Or are you innocent to the killing since you did not do the deed yourself? Does the Crowne have to prove that the murder was done by MR, or just within reasonable doubt that he was there when it happened?

 

[~n/t~]

Erm I'm not sure I understand your response to my post

That's ok. Others did.

 

[lightlady]

I think Salem answered my question! Never mind!

 

[~n/t~]

Just a question for those of you in the legal know.. Does it matter here who yielded the hammer or did the killing blows under Canadian law? If you are present when the killing happens but did not do the actual killing, are you equally as guilty? Or are you innocent to the killing since you did not do the deed yourself? Does the Crowne have to prove that the murder was done by MR, or just within reasonable doubt that he was there when it happened?

No it doesn't matter who yielded the hammer. If he was there, he is guilty.

So far we know he was because he drove there. Furthermore, his defense claims he helped dispose of the body.

This other horrific testimony just reinforces the Crown's case that he willingly and knowlingly kidnapped a child, raped and murdered her. Whether he yielded the final blow makes no difference.

Guilty as charged. IMO

 

[swedie]

No, no, I meant her position when her remains were found, not during the attack. I had assumed she was standing up while being attacked ... at least initially. Maybe I had even read that during TLM's testimony, but no time to look now.

JMO

McClintic says she had taken Tori to urinate outside the car following the original alleged sexual assault in the car, but returned the child afterwards to Rafferty and walked to the rear of the car. McClintic had earlier suggested Tori call her “T’’ and this the youngster did, plaintively, pleadingly, when the dreadful assault resumed: “T! T! Please make him stop!’’

But McClintic, by her own admission, did nothing to intervene.

When next she looked, McClintic tells Smyth, Tori was lying face up on the ground, alongside Rafferty’s Honda Civic. “I could hear moaning . . . the rustle of garbage bags.’’

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...tions-to-jury-on-mcclintic-s-confession-video

 

[Shasta]

As soon as I read about the facial injuries, I thought about him punching her right in the face and breaking her nose and cheekbones. He could have broke the skin in his hand from this and caused his own bleeding from his hand. If he touched his gym bag, he could have mixed his own blood with Tori's blood from him breaking her nose. I've seen the same type of facial injury as described by the chief pathologist and it was done by the person who raped and killed that victim. It took violent force. This facial hit could have caused the gurgling sound and swallowing blood as well as the liver injuries could have made the gurgling sound. Rapists hate their victims, he could have hit her to make her stop crying or because he was disappointed with something. This just makes me think he is responsible for this horrible deviant death. JMO

also: TLM said that Tori was motionless on the ground when she approached the car in her version 2. Why was she motionless? Because she was punched in the face? JMO

Opinion and speculation only:

I also †hink †his likely. I wonder too if Tori struggled and sounded the horn when she was in the front sea†; trying to call for help perhaps triggering violence from MTR and then the move to the back seat.

If TLM's testimony is true then Tori would not have seen the hammer coming at her because garbage bags were placed over her head prior to the hammer blows. Therefore the automatic impulse to raise hands over head for protection would not have occurred. But even if that was the case, once she was thrown on the ground by MTR (as alleged), would she not have tried to move away ... crawl away? I believe her parents said she was a fighter. Maybe she'd already sustained an injury before being thrown on the ground and was consequently unable to move.

None of us will sleep well tonight thinking of Tori's final hours. The damage done to her hits a level of sadistic cruelty that's incomprensible, unfathomable. There will be no relief for Tori's family. How terrible for them.

Thank you to all the people who kept this thread up to date today. The words must have been difficult to type at times.

 

[ChaChaCha]

In this case, I have no doubt now that he crushed her little body and broke her ribs when he was on top of her raping her.

Should you choose to believe TLM's "testimony" then according to her graphic testimony about the two of them in the back seat of that little car, that is not how the rape occurred. I am fairly certain that the coroner that testified today was of the opinion that the broken ribs were the result of considerable force - i.e. kicking. It is unreasonable to therefore assume that the broken ribs were the result of the weight of his body on top of her when this is not what the evidence supports.

It is unlikely, in my opinion, that either of the broken ribs and fractured face were inflicted on TS by MR, but rather by the confessed and convicted murderess who is evidently evil enough to do such things in her supposed rage.

There is nothing in the evidence presented today to support the Crown's charges of sexual assault.

JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

That's ok. Others did.

I simply couldn't understand why you responsded to my post about him calling 911 - went back to that post and realized why. I think I responded to the wrong post oops.