trial thread: 04/03/2012

[~n/t~]

McClintic said she 'knew what was about to happen', so walked away from the car. When pressed as to what that was, she replied: 'I believed he was going to rape her.'

After Rafferty sexually assaulted Tori the first time in the front seat of his Honda Civic, during which time she could hear screams and cries for help, he called McClintic to take her to the toilet, she told the court.

The 21-year-old recalled Tori was bleeding and crying and pleaded with her: 'Just don't let him do it to me again.'

'I told her I was sorry and that she was a very strong girl. And she said "Like you?" And I told her she was much stronger', she testified. The convicted child killer then took Tori back to Rafferty, so he could commit the senseless, depraved act again.

At this point in her testimony, Tori's parents Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford broke down in tears.

Rafferty's former girlfriend told the packed courtroom that as they were walking back to the car, Tori wouldn't let go of her hand. All she was wearing was her favourite Hannah Montana T-shirt.

bbm

http://sott.nes.sott.net/articles/s...ed-Raped-and-Murdered-on-Way-Home-From-School

 

[~n/t~]

I think the evidence speaks for itself.

Rodney/Tara: My heart breaks with you. Please stay strong and keep the faith. Victoria will get justice. :rose:

 

[Kamille]

Because she would just say that he did it. Who would you believe? A large adult man of dubious history or the little lost teenage girl? If she did indeed go nuts and kill Tori before he could do anything then he would pretty much be stuck with the situation. He could hardly go running off to the police because no one would believe him. He would have had no choice but to help her and hope that no one found out. The other alternative would be to go to jail for the rest of his life, and being the psychopath she is, that is a scenario she could have presented to him. It is quite concievable that this was some sort of power play on her part in an attempt to control him and his affections.

In situations like that, even if you are not involved, you are guilty by association. It is hard to prove otherwise.

If he had happened upon this scene after going for his extra long walk, all he had to do was call the police. If his story is correct, there would have been no evidence of sexual assault and he would not have had any blood or DNA from Victoria on his person. He would also not have had any prints on the murder weapon.

Since it has been suggested that DNA and forensic evidence is important and required to establish a sexual assault in TLM's scenario, imagine how well things would have gone for MR if he had avoided the scene altogether and just called in the police to arrest and charge TLM for first degree murder.

And if he is considered guilty by association even if he does all this, then why are we having this trial in the first place? Victoria died as the result of an abduction, that at some point he even claims he knew about and yet continued to drive around with her in his car, and therefore he is just as guilty. He had the chance to prove otherwise and chose to dispose of the murdered child and remain silent for three years. But now he expects everyone to believe him?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

bbm

http://sott.nes.sott.net/articles/s...ed-Raped-and-Murdered-on-Way-Home-From-School

That is irresponsible reporting IMO. It has never been indicated that either assault took place in the front seat of the car.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

It doesnt make sense to remove the skirt to rape her, but not the top. The fact that she still had her top on makes me think that something else was going on. If Rafferty did in fact rape her you would have thought that with the size difference he would have remove all of her clothing, not just a part that wouldn't have gotten in the way otherwise. It doesn't make sense.

Removing the skirt but not the top sounds more like something a woman would do under the circumstances.

Why does it not make sense to leave her top on? I'm not following the logic here. :waitasec:

 

[Kamille]

If he did assault TS, to prevent the fibre transfer from his shirt to TS's.



MOO

I don't think someone who is sexually assaulting a child is concerned with fiber transer from a shirt when there would be DNA transfer which is much more damning. And he removed his shirt and threw it in the garbage bag as per TLM. Probably because of blood transfer from Victoria and nothing to do with fiber transfer.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

That is irresponsible reporting IMO. It has never been indicated that either assault took place in the front seat of the car.

MOO

TLM testified to that. It's not the reporter who made it up.

They then drove for about 45 minutes and turned into a rural road where McClintic said Rafferty sexually assaulted the child in the front seat of his Honda Civic. At Gowdey’s urging, McClintic described the geography that included “shrubs, trees and swampiness.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...s-terri-lynne-mcclintic-takes-the-stand-today

This is the first time he raped her. He raped her twice according to testimony.

 

[captaincanada]

Does anyone know if Rodney Stafford has been talking to the media lately? I haven't seen any videos of him in a week or so.

 

[~n/t~]

Does anyone know if Rodney Stafford has been talking to the media lately? I haven't seen any videos of him in a week or so.

He flew to Winnipeg last week and did an interview there. Yesterday, he left the court after the graphic details of how his baby girl was found and the conditions she was found.

I don't think he needs microphones in his face right now. IMO

 

[Kamille]

TLM testified to that. It's not the reporter who made it up.



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...s-terri-lynne-mcclintic-takes-the-stand-today

This is the first time he raped her. He raped her twice according to testimony.

Here is a link to the tweets that were coming in at the time...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7683873&postcount=348"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - trial thread: 3/13/2012[/ame]

TLM testified that she heard things in the front seat and that the car horn went off but the first actual assault took place in the back seat. I don't know why the reporters are getting that wrong.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

Here is a link to the tweets that were coming in at the time...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - trial thread: 3/13/2012

TLM testified that she heard things in the front seat and that the car horn went off but the first actual assault took place in the back seat. I don't know why the reporters are getting that wrong.

MOO

ok thanks. Did he rape her in the back seat twice?

 

[captaincanada]

He flew to Winnipeg last week and did an interview there. Yesterday, he left the court after the graphic details of how his baby girl was found and the conditions she was found.

I don't think he needs microphones in his face right now. IMO

That's what I was wondering. He's been strong to be able to talk to the media everyday but the last few days must have been rough for him, especially yesterday.

 

[crazyladi]

So is today police interaction with MR or is it still the forensic evidence still?

 

[Kamille]

ok thanks. Did he rape her in the back seat twice?

Apparently. Unless the second attempt was unsucessful, for whatever reason, and that's why he angrily threw her out of the car onto the ground.

MOO

 

[Ardy]

Really? I beg to differ. Why would only males know this? I bet you TLM has used a hammer more than MR. Why you might ask? I bet during her time in Juvie she took part in workshops which are offered at places like Cecil Facer (building dog houses etc). She also grew up poor which would mean that they learned to fix there own stuff, which would mean being able to effectively use a hammer. So the whole well he is a male he knows how to effectively use a hammer defence is pretty shoddy at best and I actually find it quite offensive. At the right angle a claw can inflict force that causes substantial injury as was shown in this case.

Also Victoria could have been silent as she may have already been unconsious due to the other injuries inflicted on her before.

I am sorry if I sounded offensive or sexist, but it is my life experience that most men would not use the claw end of a hammer to strike something.

To the extent that females also wouldn't use the claw end, I do not know.

Using the claw end of the hammer, is not only less effective, because of the curved shape and the thinner and weaker steel at that end, but also is more dangerous for whoever is using it, as it tends to bounce off objects and may injure the user themselves.

If a young lad showed up at a construction site and started pounding nails into wood with the claw end of the hammer..........it wouldn't be considered usual by other males.......I can assure you.

It doesn't categorically prove anything, but it does indicate to me that TLM was probably the one using the hammer.

 

[giantalkinghead]

ok thanks. Did he rape her in the back seat twice?

Respectfully, the question to still be determined is whether or not she was even raped at all.... The only evidence that the crown has presented to date is the word of TLM. Let's hope there is enough strong evidence yet to come that will put him away for the rest of his life ."IF IN FACT HE DID THE CRIMES" We need to know the rest of the facts that the Crown has to present.

When I think about it the only reason that some people are pressing so strongly that the rape occured is because it takes pressure off of the drug debt theory and VS mother. I can certainly understand that - but let's hope there is enough "REAL" undisputable evidence that will put the culprit(S) away for the rest of their lives. There is nothing worse than letting people out of jail after too short a period of time because of lack of evidence. Think about Karla Homolka walking the streets... that IMO is completely unfair and should have never happened.

MOO

 

[nettie_82]

Could the mods please open the thread for today??!! PLS?

 

[nobodyzgirl]

So is today police interaction with MR or is it still the forensic evidence still?

It starts with cross of the pathologist and I'm not sure after that who the next witness for the Crown will be.

 

[snoofer]

I am sorry if I sounded offensive or sexist, but it is my life experience that most men would not use the claw end of a hammer to strike something.

To the extent that females also wouldn't use the claw end, I do not know.

Using the claw end of the hammer, is not only less effective, because of the curved shape and the thinner and weaker steel at that end, but also is more dangerous for whoever is using it, as it tends to bounce off objects and may injure the user themselves.

If a young lad showed up at a construction site and started pounding nails into wood with the claw end of the hammer..........it wouldn't be considered usual by other males.......I can assure you.

It doesn't categorically prove anything, but it does indicate to me that TLM was probably the one using the hammer.

well it could depend on whether the murderer was trying to smash something in or pull something out of the body IMO which end they might choose. Sorry to be so graphic but you are making assumption it was to hammer in and not pull out...depends on the sadistic killers preference I guess:moo:

 

[snoofer]

I certainly would NOT have done what MR did............but who knows what each person would do in a situation like that.

I do know that sometimes a person can get themselves involved in a situation, merely by not thinking ahead of possible consequences. This is especially true of young, inexperienced and foolish young men.

My wife and I live in a complex and have taken on looking after a friend who lives just across the parking lot. She is an attractive widow who suffers from serious Alzheimers disease. She has a very poor memory, gets confused easily, and is waiting for placement in a care setting. Her daughter lives in the US and has our contact number........so we keep an eye on her mom for her. She also has continual daily visitations from VON, public health nurse, Meals on Wheels, and other volunteer organizations.

One day, I get a call from the woman's niece. She is worried because the woman isn't answering her phone and asks me to check on her. My wife is at work, but I say okay.........and I go over and bang on the door.......no answer.

Then I decide to go home and fetch a key we have to her place, and start to head back to check her place out and make sure she is alright. Halfway there, I think......wait a minute. What if something is really wrong and I open the door and find her naked or something.......or worse. And what if one of her many visitors just happens to come into the home while I am standing there.

So, I turn around and go back home, and fortunately my son's girlfriend is there waiting for him to come home. I ask her to accompany me, and we go over and she walks through the home, while I stay at the door.

She wasn't home and nothing happened.............but that is how easy a person can find themselves in a situation that is difficult to explain.

I have the benefit of years of life and experience.

MR is young and foolish. I doubt he looks much past what he is going to do that day when he gets up each morning. I doubt he looks ahead and considers a range of possible consequences of his actions.

That is just the reality of the world for a lot of young men.

I don't find it beyond the realm of belief that MR could have gotten himself fooled into some scheme hatched by TLM, and panicked when she told him the truth, and then totally freaked out when TLM killed VS.

Maybe yes........maybe no..........the evidence should show.

I don't condone his actions, if that is what happened, but I can understand how stupid, irresponsible, and selfish young people can be.

He is 28.:banghead: IMO this is not even a close comparison. I would NEVER make an excuse like that for a 28 year old...this is not typical young man behavior in any way shape or form.