trial thread: 3/13/2012

[mareseatoats]

Well, we have no idea yet what the crown has. This isn't over til the fat lady sings

Ain't that the truth - and for the record, neither have we any idea yet what the defense will argue. Waiting for the fat lady to sing.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have been moving through the thread quickly and have not been hitting the thank you button, so I would just like to let everyone here know that I appreciate that they are here for Tori and one another. And thanks to those who are posting tweets and media updates.

And as long as I'm at it, a big thanks to those here who have been here constantly over the years waiting for this trial, keeping everyone posted and keeping this little angel's memory alive

 

[antiquegirl]

Your senerio is possible, but I think they BOTH planned it and BOTH carried it out. As for who did what, does it really matter as they were both present!

I believe that both MR and TLM talked about abducting a girl for MR's sexual purpose. MR being the manipulator that he is, talked TLM into helping him out with this plan, and TLM agreed to do anything her newly found boyfriend wanted. After all, she seemed to want to do anything to please this guy who was giving her attention. When the time came, whether she had second thoughts on carrying it out or not does not matter, as she did go through with it. I think the original plan was to rape her, but murder was not talked about. I have a feeling that MR did the raping and TLM was told to murder her as they couldn't let her go. She then went into a rage as he was making her do so.

(BBM)

I have to wonder that if this were the case (that she was "told to" and "made to"), why did TLM not say so in her testimony today? I read virtually every Tweet and saw nothing of the sort. She freely admitted that it was she who started kicking Tori, she who put the garbage bag on her head, and she who wielded the hammer. I saw no mention that she was asked, told, or coerced in any way to do any of these things. She said that she was in a rage.

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

She says the "flashbacks" brought up "a whole lot of rage and anger in me"

Cristina Tenaglia‏@cristina_CHCHTV

#McClintic said she started kicking #Tori.

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

#Rafferty - McClintic admits she put garbage over Tori's head.

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

McClintic says she hit #ToriStafford with the hammer 3 times #Rafferty

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

#Rafferty - crown " who struck her with the hammer?". Mcclintic "me".

This is the order in which these Tweets came in. If TLM started kicking Tori as she lay on the ground, that could explain why Tori never got a chance to run away. There was no indication that the poor baby ever tried to escape - not at Tim Horton's, not at the Home Depot, not at MR's "friend's" house, and not while TLM allegedly took her to the bathroom. For a feisty little girl, this surprised me, but maybe she was in shock. Maybe she was drugged, but we haven't heard this yet. This was a horrific day of testimony, but with many questions left unanswered.

JMO

 

[crazyladi]

There are so many gaps her testimony that I hope are cleared up because at this point I feel TLM 60% MR 40% responsibility.

Why arent Tori's responses being mentioned? Is there a reason for it?

Why are their gaps as to what happened such as, was there more to her luring Tori to the car? They just fast forward pushing her in the car. Was it really that easy?

Did Tori just sit there? I doubt it, why arent they mentioning what Tori was saying during all of this?

when was the discussion about the kidnapping?

 

[crazyladi]

Did I tell you all I am very impatient and I want to hear all the trial right now??? Lord I hate this. This case upsets me so much

 

[Hello_Kitty]

There are so many gaps her testimony that I hope are cleared up because at this point I feel TLM 60% MR 40% responsibility.

Why arent Tori's responses being mentioned? Is there a reason for it?

Why are their gaps as to what happened such as, was there more to her luring Tori to the car? They just fast forward pushing her in the car. Was it really that easy?

Did Tori just sit there? I doubt it, why arent they mentioning what Tori was saying during all of this?

when was the discussion about the kidnapping?

Well if he was there, which I believe the crown will prove, it doesn't matter who is more responsible. In the eyes of the law they are both responsible and that was the judge's instruction to the jury, that it wasn't up to them to deliberate who killed TS but if they acted together.

 

[crazyladi]

The Canadian justice system scares me and I am from here... ARGH!!

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Would it be possible that Tori did not run because TLM was there comforting her, telling her not to run because it could make things worse, that she would protect her? I'm sure that TLM was saying that she was comforting Tori to make her seem less like the hideous monster she is, but it made her look all the worse in my eyes because I don't think for one second she was trying to comfort Tori. She was manipulating her. It was all apart of keeping her calm to avoid detection and maintain control.

 

[fats]

Well, we have no idea yet what the crown has. This isn't over til the fat lady sings

I won't sleep tonight after that testimony today....no punishment harsh enough for the perps of this hideous sadistic crime.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Did I tell you all I am very impatient and I want to hear all the trial right now??? Lord I hate this. This case upsets me so much

This trial seems to be going along at a snails pace. It makes it more painful IMO. I wish it were over, especially for Tori's family.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I won't sleep tonight after that testimony today....no punishment harsh enough for the perps of this hideous sadistic crime.

I started getting a headache during her testimony and by the end of it my headaches became a huge migraine. I think it was the stress, anyway, I went to lay down but I was so depressed. I really hope the rest of the trial isn't like it was today.

 

[dilbert]

I have always felt MR was involved somehow, just struggled with what and how much. I agree with a few others, it's not over yet and I will hold my final judgement of him until I've heard everything presented, by both sides.
That said, I KNEW TLM was the one that physically killed Tori, she had the known violent , criminal history and fascinations.

I hope Rodney Stafford helps to educate the naive public and informs them that women are every bit as capable of heinous crimes, men do not own the rights to that, sadly.

Rest in peace Victoria, may your family find solace during these difficult days, and peace in their future.

 

[kmclaren]

There are so many gaps her testimony that I hope are cleared up because at this point I feel TLM 60% MR 40% responsibility.

I have trouble looking at it that way - they worked together as a team, 100% responsibility for each...

If not for TLM's actions that day, MR would not be here in court today. If not for MR's alleged actions that day, TLM would not be serving a life sentence. And Tori would be home with her family, she'd be in grade 6 with all her friends and we all joe public would not know her name and beautiful smiling face. So I just can't assign partial blame to either of them.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Re: post that Wondergirl made regarding the hammer. That included this source:

Quote:
He made a comment that he had tools at his house, but it would be ‘too heat’ (would attract too much attention) to grab them. So he said we had to make one more stop. I asked him where.”

Mr. Rafferty didn’t reply, she said.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/na...service=mobile

I'm surprised that that sounds somewhat believable to me. Because of TLM's history with violent fantasies (the writing) I had always leaned towards her buying the hammer without her being told to do so by MTR. That that was apart of her violent fantasy, that she wanted the hammer for herself, she bought the hammer for herself, and knew that she would be the one to use when MTR was done.

I've always leaned towards there being some kind of understanding between too that they would each have their part, his sexual, her's the violent killing to leave no witnesses.

But just because the hammer may have not been her idea, that doesn't mean that she didn't know what she was going to do with it after she was told and did buy it. It could have been just like the abduction itself, like she said she knew what to do. She knew what she was going to do before she stepped out of the car to stand at that telephone pole. It was the same with the hammer.

I didn't hear anything about going the esso? Did I miss that?

 

[ynotdivein]

I started getting a headache during her testimony and by the end of it my headaches became a huge migraine. I think it was the stress, anyway, I went to lay down but I was so depressed. I really hope the rest of the trial isn't like it was today.

HK, these are the chapters the Crown intends to lay out (today began Chapter 2):

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.

An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.

Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."

"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have always felt MR was involved somehow, just struggled with what and how much. I agree with a few others, it's not over yet and I will hold my final judgement of him until I've heard everything presented, by both sides.
That said, I KNEW TLM was the one that physically killed Tori, she had the known violent , criminal history and fascinations.

I hope Rodney Stafford helps to educate the naive public and informs them that women are every bit as capable of heinous crimes, men do not own the rights to that, sadly.

Rest in peace Victoria, may your family find solace during these difficult days, and peace in their future.

So important. Before Caylee Anthony, before Sandra Cantu, before Tori I never would have thought that women were as capable of these horrible things as men are. Of the five big cases that were going on when I got here three involved very violent women.

Knowledge and awareness are powerful tools against these monsters that seem to be able to still do these things despite our best defenses.

 

[Alison]

I guess if you didnt believe in Satan before today you do now.

I say bring back the death penalty just for these two and Bernardo and Homolka.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have trouble looking at it that way - they worked together as a team, 100% responsibility for each...

If not for TLM's actions that day, MR would not be here in court today. If not for MR's alleged actions that day, TLM would not be serving a life sentence. And Tori would be home with her family, she'd be in grade 6 with all her friends and we all joe public would not know her name and beautiful smiling face. So I just can't assign partial blame to either of them.

I agree. I can see how one could say he did this much, she did that much.... But, for me I see it this way, one person puts a big cup of water into a bucket, then this person a small one, this person two... they both filled the bucket together YKWIM?

We're not going to be able to quantify how much either one of them did because, as Rodney has pointed out, we are never going to know the whole truth and we can't really understand what was going on in their minds anyway.

ETA: Had to majorly edit, because when I majorly edited before posting I didn't preview after that major edit. Ugg.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_...012/03/13/0313mcclinticstand.jpg&size=248x186

It looks like TLM is wearing glasses now too.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/01384/web-stafford14n_1384665cl-8.jpg

Tara and James.