trial thread: 3/27/2012

[Alice Ramnit]

Percocets aren't covered by any drug plan except public drug plan, OW and ODSP.

Percocets would be covered by her extended health care plan. I imagine that she had one since she was working full-time?

 

[Sailor Bug]

Great point.

He went to BA's more than a dozen times between April 8th and May 19th.

Wondering again if he re-visited the crime scene, and if his Blackberry was with him?

I don't think he even would have to use the Blackberry, for the records to indicate what tower the phone was pinging off during his travels in the month after the murder.

JMO

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

 

[~n/t~]

No, the discussion of MR being a homosexual.

It's as good as a defence theory as any other, imo. Defence attorneys will sometimes use anything to get their client off.

Look at Casey Anthony case. They blamed George (her father) of molesting her. Scott Peterson - the homeless people did it. and so on......

:moo:

 

[fats]

No, the discussion of MR being a homosexual.

There is nothing wrong with being a homosexual--his voice is slightly feminine and he did have an earring in his right ear.....it really doesn't matter but it could have been used in his defense---then TLM couldn't be a girlfriend....etc etc

 

[jolady]

It's as good as a defence theory as any other, imo. Defence attorneys will sometimes use anything to get their client off.

Look at Casey Anthony case. They blamed George (her father) of molesting her. Scott Peterson - the homeless people did it. and so on......

:moo:

A homosexual does not equal a pedophile.

 

[Alice Ramnit]

It's as good as a defence theory as any other, imo. Defence attorneys will sometimes use anything to get their client off.

Look at Casey Anthony case. They blamed George (her father) of molesting her. Scott Peterson - the homeless people did it. and so on......

:moo:

Yes, except he has strings of women reporting/testifying that they briefly 'dated' them. I wonder how/why all those relationships ended?
(Sorry if that has been covered already)

 

[Wondergirl]

He was chatty because he was in control and getting his drugs. He was a wreck the next time because of his involvement in the crime and the heat was on---ie the video of the abduction and the attention must have had him in a panic.:jail: Sorry but I just don't buy the MR innocent theory at all. He was involved as much as TLM JMO

I agree.

Maybe he was jittery, not sleeping, not eating, developing cold sores, going back for more and more drugs, because he couldn't believe he actually did what he did?

Funny enough, he did seem to have it toned down enough when he had his interview with LE on the 15th, which worked out well for him that day, as they didn't bring him in. He seemed to pull it together for them.

I wonder if MTR had any odd behavior, emotional outbursts, stressed out anxiety, between April 8th and May 19th, with his girlfriend(s), mother, friends etc.? Did exhibit anxiety when he was visiting TLM in jail during that time?

 

[Alice Ramnit]

I agree.

Maybe he was jittery, not sleeping, not eating, developing cold sores, going back for more and more drugs, because he couldn't believe he actually did what he did?

Funny enough, he did seem to have it toned down enough when he had his interview with LE on the 15th, which worked out well for him that day, as they didn't bring him in. He seemed to pull it together for them.

I wonder if MTR had any odd behavior, emotional outbursts, stressed out anxiety, between April 8th and May 19th, with his girlfriend(s), mother, friends etc.? Did exhibit anxiety when he was visiting TLM in jail during that time?

IMO The fact that MR has not had a single friend or relative show up to offer him any support (that we know of) speaks volumes.

 

[snoofer]

My guess is they gave her a percocet, I had an impacted wisdom tooth and this is what the dentist gave me, knocked me out. BTW, if the mother had back problems that required pain killers her doctor could have prescribed those, in Canada, we have medicare, you don't need to buy them off the street at 5 times the price unless there for recreational use. Also, really don't think a petrified child is going to start screaming, we don't know what he/she said to her in that car.

I suspect that both MTR and TLM would have seemed very scarey to Tori and if she was told not to make a peep she probably would not have..as I would think they wouldn't have said it in a very nice way :rocker:

 

[nursebeeme]

please let us keep discussion on what was in the testimony. thanks so much

 

[Hello_Kitty]

As BA has known MR for a long time, used to date him, and had maintained regular contact with him..............and she said they shared kind of a "girl talk" relationship, I am surprised the Crown did not ask questions about MR's sexual preferences, habits, or interests.

Sometimes I feel like there is more left un-said in this trial than is being said.

BBM

To me it feels like they are all just going through the motions, and everyone pretty much knows what the outcome will be. That just my impression

 

[Hello_Kitty]

<rsbm>

IIRC, there was something TLM had texted to a friend that she didn't have any cell time on her phone.

If it's true true TLM used MR's phone in Guelph, wouldn't LE know who she called and call them in to testify or at the least it would prove that TLM did use MR's phone to call her friends.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

These actions suggest the defence is plausible.

If MR really had planned the abduction:

(1) He would have already had the garbage bags and hammer with him. To suggest he made TLM get these items to cover for himself is too risky. If he was that smart he would have known he would be caught on tape.
(2) He would not have stopped for drugs.
(3) He would not have gone to Tim Horton's and risk getting caught.

Now, if TLM had taken Tori with her and told MR that she was babysitting Tori perhaps and/or did not give MR any intentions of what SHE planned, then:

(1) She would have stopped to get tea at Tim Horton's.
(2) She would be okay with MR stopping to get drugs.
(3) She could have lied to MR about Home Depot and said she had to pick something up.

Do we know that MTR gave/lent her money to pick up her things, or did TLM have money of her own... Hmmm, since she didn't have money to put money into her phone, then she didn't have money to buy the hammer and bags, so MTR must've given her the money.

 

[snoofer]

These actions suggest the defence is plausible.

If MR really had planned the abduction:

(1) He would have already had the garbage bags and hammer with him. To suggest he made TLM get these items to cover for himself is too risky. If he was that smart he would have known he would be caught on tape.
(2) He would not have stopped for drugs.
(3) He would not have gone to Tim Horton's and risk getting caught.

Now, if TLM had taken Tori with her and told MR that she was babysitting Tori perhaps and/or did not give MR any intentions of what SHE planned, then:

(1) She would have stopped to get tea at Tim Horton's.
(2) She would be okay with MR stopping to get drugs.
(3) She could have lied to MR about Home Depot and said she had to pick something up.

But..it would be sensible for MTR to go to drug dealers house with Tori in the back and buy drugs? IMO I am not sure either of those two operate under the same moral or common sense code as the rest of us do. This is the same fellow who told the officer on the audio..that he is TLM's only friend who isn't into drugs, who took his mother over to CM house knowing she is heroine addict as he stated with needles sticking out of her arms. Boy he sure lied through his first meeting with police on the audio tape...not sure who tells more lies..him or TLM. IMO

Or are we to believe that those drugs are for HIS mother??? That pool fellow surrounded by such riffraff ....two peas in a pod IMO

 

[Wondergirl]

So, did MTR participate in searches that following weekend?

Does that mean the 11th of April or the 18th?

If MTR kidnapped and helped put little Victoria in garbage bags under a rockpile, and yet he was going to go and help participate in searches, what does that tell you of his motivation?

At best, trying to "appear" concerned for "that missing girl" while feeling guilty he buried her, at worst actually trying to direct the investigation, monitor the situation and "appear" concerned for "that missing girl", because he was there when she was killed, he killed her, he raped her or helped rape her.

JMO

She also recalled Rafferty telling her about the girl&#8217;s disappearance, how he thought it was drug-related and that &#8220;he was going to look for her&#8221; that following weekend.

Rafferty also told her about how police had arrested the woman who was with him on April 8 as a suspect in the case.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...s-expected-to-say-she-sold-drugs-to-rafferty/

 

[Hello_Kitty]

What else is near Home Depot. What exactly did MTR think she was getting there? Its a "manly" store IMO. I would have no reason to go there unless I needed to pick up hardware stuff. Did he think she was getting maxi pads?? LOL so kidding but really, it seemed like when he rolled up and she threw it in the already opened trunk and jumped in the car that they already had a plan in place. JMO

BBM

So yeah, the trunk was already opened, so does that show he might have known what she picked up? Why would he open the trunk if he didn't know what it was she was getting. She could have just kept the bag and thrown it in the back seat or put it at her feet.

 

[Kamille]

It's possible also that TLM is making up the rape. If she is, that's pretty evil. I mean imagine being told your child was murdered, but before she was murdered she was brutally raped. That would be more than excruciating. But then to find out that the rape was a lie. Crap, I would be so angry on angry on angry.

If MR did not sexually assault Victoria then he wouldn’t have taken a clam up and prove it approach with LE at the time of his arrest IMO. He knew the claims that TLM was making about him. And at that time, he had the ability to prove his innocence in the sexual assault by leading LE to the crime scene and the back seat of his car. If Victoria had been found at the time of their arrests, there likely would have been enough evidence on her body to disprove the sexual assault claims by TLM. Or at least to prove that his DNA was not on the body since she was missing her clothing from the waist down. Victoria had only been deceased for about 5 weeks and it had been cool or cold during that time so there would have been a much greater chance at determining this. He knew exactly where she was IMO. He had lived in the area and he was driving the car. And he knew that it was going to be difficult for TLM to find the crime scene because she did not know the area IMO. He must have been very relieved when she wasn’t able to lead them directly there. And you can bet that she really wanted LE to find the crime scene so that she could prove that she was telling the truth about the assault.

Working with LE to clear himself of the accusations of rape and murder, he could also have led them to the murder weapon and TLM’s bloody clothing. Or at least where they had disposed of them so LE could check landfill records for the dumpster in question. If his version of events is true, that would have been the common sense thing to do to minimize his charges. Not sit back and wait to see what evidence they have before formulating a story. You’d have thought his attorney would have been encouraging him to do this as well if that is the story he gave him. As an attorney, he would have been advising him that he could get out of first degree murder and maybe only face accessory charges if he helped LE with their investigation. Maybe he was. And maybe that’s why that particular attorney was dismissed by MR.

If his version of the story is true, he could have proven it, well the day of the murder….but if he really did decide to hope that they’d never be caught, he had the opportunity to minimize his charges the day he was arrested and prove TLM to be lying about the sexual assault. Which would put the motive in question for sure.

In fact, he might actually have already served his time for accessory after the fact instead of waiting 3 years to go to trial to take a crap shoot on “reasonable doubt” with a story that just doesn’t make sense.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I am wondering if any puncture wounds were found on Tori..it was stated CM was IV heroine user...why is Tori so quiet..:banghead: IMO just wondering..as it doesn't make sense.

By the time they found her, I doubt that would be possible to determine. But there should be a toxicology report to determine if there were drugs in her system.

MOO

 

[matou]

Very interesting to note that in the middle of a kidnapping he is totally relaxed, sits and chats with his old friend and then mosies on back to his car - like he didn't have a care in the world, no rush, no agenda to keep - just out and about around town ....

But, a couple of days later he is described as being a totally different, stressed out person ...

Why? Because when he was at BA's house on April 8 he had no idea that TLM had kidnapped TS or of the events that were to follow.

In the meantime, during those ten minutes that TLM waited for him in the car, she reviewed her situation. Perhaps she tried using MR's phone that he had left with her to call or text someone about the alleged drug debt, and not getting an answer, panicked, knowing that they could not bring TS back to Woodstock with them. TLM knows that she cannot allow TS to live, as she can identify TLM. She also knows that if she tells MR now that she has abducted the child and needs to kill her that he will not co-operate. Her twisted mind tells her that the child must die, and her body left where it will not be found for a good long time.

MR returns to the car and suggests a Timmies, to which TLM agrees. Stopping at Timmies on Woodlawn, TLM sees the Home Depot, and realizes that this is her chance to choose a murder weapon. She mentions to MR that she needs to pick up a couple of things and he waits for her in the car while she runs in, all the while unaware of what she is purchasing or what her plan is.

Since they now have the drugs they came to pick up in Guelph, there is no urgency and MR heads out of Guelph the back way. This is when TLM tells him that they need to pull over so TS can relieve herself .... so they turn into a laneway and MR walks over to a stand of trees ...

In my opinion MR was unaware of TLM's plan until it was too late. No wonder he would appear stressed and jittery a few days later.

JMO of course!

He was stressed, because TLM was arrested that Sunday. JMO

 

[Kamille]

IMO The fact that MR has not had a single friend or relative show up to offer him any support (that we know of) speaks volumes.

Well we don't know that but if they haven't shown up in court yet, they might be on the witness list IMO.