trial thread: 3/30/2012

[Hello_Kitty]

Maybe he was dealing? I'm sure he would want to be pretty doped out after doing what he is being accused of doing? The reason why he went back to BA for more, because he couldn't take the reality of what he had done, if he did it? BA did say he was a mess or however she worded it.

Well it's not easy to get percocets I mean someone has to have a prescription for it. I'm amazed that she was able to get them so easily if she sold him that many pills. Did she know a doctor who was willing to risk his career on providing them, or did she have alot of friends w/scripts who were willing to sell them to her for resale. *shrugs* dunno.

It's possible that if he was under stress because of all that happened, then perhaps he wanted to block everything out by getting high, he probably wasn't sleeping well either. And percs can make you sleepy.

 

[BorgQueen]

Exactly. Perhaps in her abnormal mind, TLM thought that by killing TS, she would be protecting TS from the continuing sexual abuse. (At one point, in her testimony, she said 'I knew what was coming'. That was I think just before she said that she killed TS. So... what was coming, something worse than the sexual abuse?

It is also possible that when she killed Tori, she was, in her mind, killing herself. If I am remembering correctly, she has said that when MR was assaulting Tori, all she could see was herself at that age. Assuming for a moment that this is true, and considering she is not 'all there' psychologically, it isn't too much of a stretch that she 'snapped' and killed who she saw as herself. Possibly something that she wished happened to herself. I get the impression that TLM was sexually abused by multiple men throughout her life. Typical of the kind of man that would do that to a child (including what has been said about the accused), they tend to go after single mothers. Not only was CM a single mother, she was an extremely troubled single mother. Perfect target for a man who wants a kid, IMO. So... with the psychological damage that was a result of her own abuse, it is possible that she did go into a 'rage'. But this 'rage' was against herself, if she is to be believed that she 'saw herself' in Tori.


There are many, many possibilities as to why she would attack Tori, not MR. We have to keep in mind that this woman is not well. And the drugs are not to blame. She is this way even without the drugs. She is unwell, and most 'normal' people will never be able to understand what goes on in her head. From the sounds of it, I don't even think SHE understands what goes on in her head.

:moo:

 

[flipflop]

why would he get stuck...there was no snow on the ground..I remember that weekend (Easter) and exited from the 401 south down the Guelph line and there was no snow on the ground or on those ski hills..there was a chance there might have been some mud etc. the lane doesn't look that long to me from those aerial shots..besides if they had a motive in mind it was a good safe place to act out that motive and to date all we know is that a young child was murdered there..the charges against MR are stiff as it is whether they get him on rape is immaterial to me..those other charges should put him away for life which is the most important thing IMO...

Yes there was snow on the ground in the area where VS was left. April 6th we had a snow storm, the snow was very wet and melting on April 8th. That laneway would have been very slushy.

The laneway is about 400m long, inclined and narrow.

 

[flipflop]

I think TLM said that he bought a baggie full of percs. I think she testified that she took a handful of percs before they got to Mount Forest,The amount of times he went back to buy pills from BA between April and July was I think around a dozen. That's an awful lot of pills IMO.

between April 8th - May 19th. as he was arrested then....wow a dozen visits would be twice a week!!!! BA must have known more or had been suspicious of this change in him....

 

[Alethea Dice]

She did actually testify that she saw him a couple days after the murder and he did purchase more drugs from her, that's where she noticed he was 'stressed out and haggard' and mentioned TLM, etc. I don't know about the other times.

Would you have a link for this? I don't remember any mention of whether he purchased drugs on the subsequent visits, only that she had been selling to him about twice a month. Everything I can find says the same as below. Thanks.

Avery Moore@AveryFreeFMNewsReply
Armstrong says #Rafferty visited her home in Guelph about a dozen times between Apr. 8th and his arrest on May 19th. Also texted.

London Free Press@RaffertyLFPReply
Armstrong said the next time she saw Rafferty he looked haggard - had cold sores told her he was stressed out and not eating or sleeping

AM980.ca@AM980_CourtReply
Armstrong saw Rafferty after April 8th. He was "stressed out". Looked worn down. He said a friend of a friend's daughter had gone missing.

A few days later, he turned up again, this time showing signs of stress, that friend testified at Rafferty's first-degree murder trial.

"He was looking kind of haggard, he had a cold sore," Barbara Armstrong said. "He gets cold sores when he's super stressed. He said that he hadn't been eating, he hadn't been sleeping, he was so stressed out . . . so many things going on in his life."

Rafferty told her he planned to go looking for the missing eight-year-old Tori, the daughter of a friend's friend, the next weekend, Armstrong said.

In following visits, Rafferty told her he recognized the woman who appeared in a surveillance video leading Tori away after school April 8, 2009, and a car in the video, too.

"He said that they (police) were trying to get her to confess about taking the little girl."

The last time Armstrong tried to reach him was May 15 or 17, but he didn't reply to her text, Armstrong said.

A few days later, she heard Rafferty had been arrested for Tori's murder.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/27/rafferty-trial-shifts-focus

 

[swedie]

This video shows MR walking into the store with the ATM and MR's bank statement, which I've never seen before. Also his supplier BA struggling with the cameramen.

http://www.ctvlondon.ca/tag/barbara-armstrong/

 

[maxfactor]

Yes there was snow on the ground in the area where VS was left. April 6th we had a snow storm, the snow was very wet and melting on April 8th. That laneway would have been very slushy.

The laneway is about 400m long and narrow.

I really wonder if he had been up that laneway before and knew he could turn around at the top. Apparently we are to learn in a different chapter of his ties to the Mount Forest area. A simple Canada 411 search tells me that Murphy is a popular name in that area, a Murphy lives nearby on Murphy St actually. I won't post the link here as I would hate to draw attention to anyone who isn't involved but I can't help thinking perhaps he has family there.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes there was snow on the ground in the area where VS was left. April 6th we had a snow storm, the snow was very wet and melting on April 8th. That laneway would have been very slushy.

The laneway is about 400m long, inclined and narrow.

So it could be possible that he would be hoping for a larger space in which he could turn around?

 

[flipflop]

Would you have a link for this? I don't remember any mention of whether he purchased drugs on the subsequent visits, only that she had been selling to him about twice a month. Everything I can find says the same as below. Thanks.




http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/27/rafferty-trial-shifts-focus

Barbara Armstrong testified Michael Raffety came to see her about a dozen times following the girl's disappearancehttp://www.news1130.com/news/local/...s-accused-killed-looked-haggard-ex-girlfriend

 

[flipflop]

So it could be possible that he would be hoping for a larger space in which he could turn around?

You can see from the road that the area at the top of the lane widens

 

[maxfactor]

Barbara Armstrong testified Michael Raffety came to see her about a dozen times following the girl's disappearancehttp://www.news1130.com/news/local/...s-accused-killed-looked-haggard-ex-girlfriend

Just to add, from the same article...

bought a clear baggie full of Percocets — as he did a couple of times a month

 

[snoofer]

Well it's not easy to get percocets I mean someone has to have a prescription for it. I'm amazed that she was able to get them so easily if she sold him that many pills. Did she know a doctor who was willing to risk his career on providing them, or did she have alot of friends w/scripts who were willing to sell them to her for resale. *shrugs* dunno.

It's possible that if he was under stress because of all that happened, then perhaps he wanted to block everything out by getting high, he probably wasn't sleeping well either. And percs can make you sleepy.

Maybe didn't anticipate the media storm... JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Barbara Armstrong testified Michael Raffety came to see her about a dozen times following the girl's disappearancehttp://www.news1130.com/news/local/...s-accused-killed-looked-haggard-ex-girlfriend

Thanks, but that still doesn't say that he bought more pills either on that particular visit or on the subsequent visits. It only says that he visited her a few days after Tori's disappearance and didn't seem like himself, and that he visited her about a dozen times between April 8 and May 19. I'm looking for something that say he purchased more pills from her on any of those subsequent visits.

 

[swedie]

I wouldn't imagine BA would admit to selling MR percs on numerous occasions. Nor would she admit to selling them to anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was offered a deal in which drug trafficking charges would be dropped in exchange for her testimony. Of course JMHO. And something we may never know.

Michael Rafferty visited ex-girlfriend Barbara Armstrong, 44, who kept him illegally supplied with percocet pills, a few days after Tori's disappearance on April 8, 2009, and he didn't seem like himself, she testified.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...essed-out-after-tori-stafford-s-disappearance

Armstrong considered Rafferty, 31, a “confidante” and sold him pills a few times a month for more than a year. The two had met as co-workers at a meat packing plant in late 2008.

Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...s-expected-to-say-she-sold-drugs-to-rafferty/

 

[snoofer]

I wouldn't imagine BA would admit to selling MR percs on numerous occasions. Nor would she admit to selling them to anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was offered a deal in which drug trafficking charges would be dropped in exchange for her testimony. Of course JMHO. And something we may never know.

Michael Rafferty visited ex-girlfriend Barbara Armstrong, 44, who kept him illegally supplied with percocet pills, a few days after Tori's disappearance on April 8, 2009, and he didn't seem like himself, she testified.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...essed-out-after-tori-stafford-s-disappearance

Armstrong considered Rafferty, 31, a “confidante” and sold him pills a few times a month for more than a year. The two had met as co-workers at a meat packing plant in late 2008.

Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...s-expected-to-say-she-sold-drugs-to-rafferty/

Well he certainly was aquiring a "lovely" set of associates during his short time back in town:floorlaugh:

 

[dilbert]

Tweets from the LRPress live feed, all state that the media can report on anything as long as the jury is in the courtroom.

Day 10
(03/21/2012
9:40
Twitter
RaffertyLFP:
Court is resuming but jury is not present [via Twitter]
10:04
Comment From Guest
can you report on what the legal issues are being discussed
10:04

Mike Knoll:
@Guest - absolutely not. we can only report on what the jury hears.
Day 8 (03/16/2012)

Comment From Guest
what's to stop the public from posting on facebook what the jury doesn't hear?
1:55

Twitter
RaffertyLFP:
Court is resuming jury is still out [via Twitter]
1:56


Mike Knoll:
@Guest - great question. The courts have been grappling with this very issue. It is expected that the public has the same respect for the law the media does. You could face a contempt charge or the posting could lead to a mistrial.

Mike Knoll:
@Jean - we can report on everything the jury sees/hears.

12:18

Comment From Tommy
Is there any form of publication ban on evidence or testimony in this trial?
2:06
Mike Knoll:
@Tommy: we can report on what the jury hears as they hear it.

 

[Salem]

Isn't 28 kind of late to start a career of depravity against children? I wonder if LE are looking at old cases to see if MR fits? IMO Just looked it up I guess that is not late, apparently average age is 28.5 to start their careers in acting out their depravity. IMO

Hi snoofer - can you link this information up for us? I would be interested in seeing these statistics.

Thanks!

Salem

 

[swedie]

So it could be possible that he would be hoping for a larger space in which he could turn around?

Why would MR need to go to the top of the lane way when he could just as easily backed out? If TLM just needed to talk to Tori, just pulling into the laneway would have been suffice and there would be no need to drive all the way down that lane way, as I mentioned before, why would MR take the risk of getting stuck, getting a flat tire (not knowing what debris was down there, broken glass, barbwire, scrap metal ect.) and having an abducted child in the car. It makes no sense to me why MR would drive down to the rock pile and seclusion other then the obvious of what he's being charged with...sexual assault. :moo:

In some of the videos MR seemed to be a pretty competent driver IMHO. He was zipping all around town, past OSPS, through the gas station parking lots, zipping thru HD parking lot. IMHO MR knew what was at the end of that laneway...privacy. :moo:

 

[Alethea Dice]

I wouldn't imagine BA would admit to selling MR percs on numerous occasions. Nor would she admit to selling them to anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was offered a deal in which drug trafficking charges would be dropped in exchange for her testimony. Of course JMHO. And something we may never know.

Michael Rafferty visited ex-girlfriend Barbara Armstrong, 44, who kept him illegally supplied with percocet pills, a few days after Tori's disappearance on April 8, 2009, and he didn't seem like himself, she testified.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...essed-out-after-tori-stafford-s-disappearance

Armstrong considered Rafferty, 31, a “confidante” and sold him pills a few times a month for more than a year. The two had met as co-workers at a meat packing plant in late 2008.

Armstrong testified she sold Rafferty more painkillers a few days later and met with him on a dozen more occasions until his arrest on May 19, 2009.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...s-expected-to-say-she-sold-drugs-to-rafferty/

Thanks, Swedie. So one article out of many that I checked, as well as various tweets, states that she sold more to him a few days later. Interesting that it's the same reporter who had made other errors in her live tweeting that caused confusion, one of which was later corrected by her.

She did admit to selling to him on numerous occasions - a couple of times a month for the previous year. I don't believe that you can be charged with drug trafficking unless you are caught doing it. JMO

 

[maxfactor]

Thanks, Swedie. So one article out of many that I checked, as well as various tweets, states that she sold more to him a few days later. Interesting that it's the same reporter who had made other errors in her live tweeting that caused confusion, one of which was later corrected by her.

She did admit to selling to him on numerous occasions - a couple of times a month for the previous year. I don't believe that you can be charged with drug trafficking unless you are caught doing it. JMO

Depending on what is said on the text messages between the two of them she may well have been caught.