Trial Thread 4/11/2012

[tmhco]

I didn't get quite the same conclusions as you did Oldsoul2.

I understood that there was one blood spot on the door moulding that tested positive for Victoria's DNA. That spot was also tested for sperm and there was a second individuals DNA indicated but it was too miniscule to get an actual DNA profile. So on a sperm test on that drop of blood, it was positive but they couldn't get an actual profile. I believe they could only get 1 marker? And that same blood spot was repeated in a smaller amount on the frame of the vehicle which would have been transfer from the original blood spot when the door was closed.

I also understood that there were 3 other blood stains on the front passenger seat. One on the seat itself and two on the back of the seat. The one on the front of the seat tested positive for MR and TLM's DNA. The two on the back of the seat were a mixture but Victoria was ruled out. So she was ruled out of all three blood stains on the front passenger seat.

So basically all I got out of all that is there was one blood spot on the door moulding of the car, transferred to the frame when the door was closed. And in that blood spot was Victoria's DNA and the possiblility of sperm or some other DNA (still not clear on that) but not in a high enough density to test for a positive DNA match to anyone.

So there is very little forensic DNA of a sexual assault on Victoria in the car. Not surprising if the sexual assault took place in the manner in which TLM described it. Victoria's blood and DNA would only likely have been found on MR and on the lower seat portion of his back seat if it happened in the way in which she described with Victoria in MR's lap. And since he was not wearing clothing from the waist down either and supposedly threw his shirt away along with TLM's coat and the bench portion of the seat, where exactly would they be able to find that evidence now?

Amazing how that worked out isn't it? Just another example of the forensics matching up to what TLM said. And there was no blood splatter at all from Victoria in the car so the attack with the hammer must have happened outside the vehicle. Another co-incidence?

TLM's story has not produced one hole yet that I'm aware of.

MOO

Including the fact that TLM said they had sex in his car the night they met. Didn't Rafferty say they were just friends? JMO

 

[swedie]

Traces of blood found in a car allegedly used to abduct Victoria Stafford belonged — with near certainty — to the eight-year-old and the man accused of killing her, a court heard Wednesday.

On a gym bag found in the back seat of the car, a bloodstain on the bottom, almost invisible to the naked eye, contained DNA that almost certainly came from Rafferty and Tori, court heard.

A mixture of blood and semen was found on the back of the front passenger seat, but McLean did not give any evidence about how long they had been there. Rafferty could not be excluded as the source of the semen and McClintic could not be excluded as the source of the blood, McLean said.

A coat matching McClintic's description was found in the house Rafferty shared with his mother, and testing revealed the presence of two blond hairs, which are expected to be the subject of further testimony Thursday, as McLean's testimony continues.

Barbara Doupe, an expert in hair and fibre testing as well as textile damage assessment, testified about how the hairs were found and about testing she did on a small piece of grey material found on the floor of Rafferty's car, a 2003 Honda Civic.

McClintic has testified that Rafferty sexually assaulted Tori in the rear passenger side of his car. McClintic said that as she and Rafferty were driving home after leaving Tori's body under a pile of rocks in a farmer's field, he told her to use a utility knife he had in his car to cut stained pieces of material out of his back seat.

McLean's testing on the grey material found chemical indications of blood, though none was visible, and while DNA from at least two people, one being male, was present, the minuscule amount of it meant it was unsuitable to be tested further, she said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/11/michael-rafferty-trial-dna-stafford_n_1417867.html

 

[swedie]

But an ex-girlfriend who court heard Rafferty was dating at the same time as McClintic testified Wednesday that his car had a back seat when she last saw him on March 23, 2009. Alexis Lane had recently reconnected with Rafferty, whom she had known from middle school in Drayton, Ont., she said. Drayton is slightly south of Mount Forest, where Tori was killed.

In a police interview on May 15, 2009, Rafferty mentions at least two other women he was dating in the early months of 2009, at the same time as McClintic and Lane.

Court is also expected to hear Thursday about Rafferty's past, as the Crown has indicated it will call witnesses about his connections to the Mount Forest area.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/11/michael-rafferty-trial-dna-stafford_n_1417867.html
Rafferty mentions at least two other women he was dating in the early months of 2009, at the same time as McClintic and Lane. WOW wonder when and to whom MR mentioned this?
MR's mega woman list. More than likely using them all at the same time. Am I missing any women?
-TLM
-Lane
-Mabel
-Joy
-BA ? probably

:mooirty dog. I feel like I need to got bath now. Got the heebie jeebies badly. Where's that flea powder Snoof? :floorlaugh:

 

[fats]

:waitasec: Very, very interesting Matou. Troubles at home? Mom shipped him off? Good catch. Now if we only knew.:moo: It was reported he only received one credit in highschool and was a drop out in grade ten IIRC.

Was he shipped off to live with Aunt and Uncle because of troubles at home between the Mother and Father (ie divorce?) He came from a broken home. In the OPP interview he mentioned a brother with a different last name than him and also his Mom's last name is different from his? Does he even have a father?

 

[matou]

But an ex-girlfriend who court heard Rafferty was dating at the same time as McClintic testified Wednesday that his car had a back seat when she last saw him on March 23, 2009. Alexis Lane had recently reconnected with Rafferty, whom she had known from middle school in Drayton, Ont., she said. Drayton is slightly south of Mount Forest, where Tori was killed.

In a police interview on May 15, 2009, Rafferty mentions at least two other women he was dating in the early months of 2009, at the same time as McClintic and Lane.

Court is also expected to hear Thursday about Rafferty's past, as the Crown has indicated it will call witnesses about his connections to the Mount Forest area.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/11/michael-rafferty-trial-dna-stafford_n_1417867.html
Rafferty mentions at least two other women he was dating in the early months of 2009, at the same time as McClintic and Lane. WOW wonder when and to whom MR mentioned this?
MR's mega woman list. More than likely using them all at the same time. Am I missing any women?
-TLM
-Lane
-Mabel
-Joy
-BA ? probably

:mooirty dog. I feel like I need to got bath now. Got the heebie jeebies badly. Where's that flea powder Snoof? :floorlaugh:

He mentions Amanda and Joy and another woman ("I'll call her Kate" from Oakville) to the police officer when he is interviewed. He was also with TLM and Lane at the same time. JMO

RAFFERTY: I don’t want to mention her I’ll call her Kate but I’m not giving you her last name

p. 15

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

 

[swedie]

Was he shipped off to live with Aunt and Uncle because of troubles at home between the Mother and Father (ie divorce?) He came from a broken home. In the OPP interview he mentioned a brother with a different last name than him and also his Mom's last name is different from his? Does he even have a father?

Thanks for that fats. I have never heard that before. Interesting...so TLM is not the only one to come from a dysfunctional home then?:waitasec: Not meaning all children who come from single parents homes are dysfunctional, but I believe the risks are higher. :moo: OK yes the last name of MR's brother...gotcha! Would certainly be interesting to find out more about MR's past life. Juvie record? I don't think the defense can use that against him though as this crime was committed as an adult. Maybe MR got a pardon at some point? TLM's juvie record was use to show she was in juvie at the time of her arrest and the charges related back to an offense/assault committed while a juvie. Not positive though, must go searching, see if I can find anything. :moo:

 

[Kamille]

Was he shipped off to live with Aunt and Uncle because of troubles at home between the Mother and Father (ie divorce?) He came from a broken home. In the OPP interview he mentioned a brother with a different last name than him and also his Mom's last name is different from his? Does he even have a father?

Well he went from elementary school in Drayton to high school in Richmond Hill. It appears as though his "brothers" are step brothers and I would think that their mother was married to his father? Unless DM was married to their father? But she held that job in the Woodstock area for so long so I don't know. The brothers also went to the same high school in Richmond Hill. So it looks like he was with his Aunt and Uncle in Drayton for 3 years and then shipped to his father where he completed one grade nine credit. Don't know where he was until he ended up couch surfing with friends on the streets of downtown Toronto at 18? No high school claims him as a graduate and we've heard of no other high school that he claims to have gone to.

So it appears that MR didn't have a very stable upbringing either.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I guess the whole car interior was painted white when she last saw it. JMO

And the only part of the white paint that appeared to be sanded was on the back passenger door. The one that was also missing the window handle.

MOO

 

[matou]

Why does he cry for Lane but he leaves a child to die and rot under a pile of rocks? According to his defense, he did not kill or rape Tori but was duped yet does not help Tori and leaves her in Mount Forest while he likely watched Tori's mother on television pleading for the return of her missing child? I just don't get it. What I suspect is that Lane was a trigger that set off a chain of decisions in his mind of what would happen a week after she breaks off with him. Decisions that he made to abduct, rape and murder a child. JMO

 

[Kamille]

Including the fact that TLM said they had sex in his car the night they met. Didn't Rafferty say they were just friends? JMO

Good point. Even that part of her story seems to be panning out.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I wonder if all of the women in this sordid mess with the exception of TLM had young children at home? :waitasec:

 

[flipflop]

Why does he cry for Lane but he leaves a child to die and rot under a pile of rocks? According to his defense, he did not kill or rape Tori but was duped yet does not help Tori and leaves her in Mount Forest while he likely watched Tori's mother on television pleading for the return of her missing child? I just don't get it. What I suspect is that Lane was a trigger that set off a chain of decisions in his mind of what would happen a week after she breaks off with him. Decisions that he made to abduct, rape and murder a child. JMO

I wonder why she broke it off with him at the beginning of April. Did he have conversations with her about how easy it would be to abduct someone (just like the supposed convo with TLM)

 

[Kamille]

Why does he cry for Lane but he leaves a child to die and rot under a pile of rocks? According to his defense, he did not kill or rape Tori but was duped yet does not help Tori and leaves her in Mount Forest while he likely watched Tori's mother on television pleading for the return of her missing child? I just don't get it. What I suspect is that Lane was a trigger that set off a chain of decisions in his mind of what would happen a week after she breaks off with him. Decisions that he made to abduct, rape and murder a child. JMO

I'm not so sure that he's crying for her but rather crying for himself. And the sorry womanizing, drug addicted life that he had that he probably wants to go back to. And I guess he blames TLM for the fact that he's sitting in a jail cell right now so she gets the stare down. Because he "didn't do it".

MOO

 

[swedie]

Definitive conclusions about DNA are rarely presented at murder trials, because they cannot account for every human on the planet. The usual way of assessing such results is by asking what is the mathematical likelihood the DNA belongs to a stranger selected at random.

In Tori’s case, the odds of the blood on the moulding not belonging to her or a relative are 28 billion to one, Ms. McLean testified.

Clad in a dark suit and striped tie, Mr. Rafferty for the most part sat quietly in the prisoner’s box, leaning back, his eyes half closed.

But late in the afternoon, he gave a rare display of emotion.

Briefly in the witness box was 30-year-old Alexis Lane, whom Mr. Rafferty had dated until just a few days before Tori was killed.

The prosecution contends that the Honda’s back seat was jettisoned to get rid of incriminating evidence after Tori’s murder, and Ms. Lane was called to tell the jury that when she last saw Mr. Rafferty, both seats were intact.

As she left the courtroom, Mr. Rafferty watched her in tears, leaning forward and wiping his eyes.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rom-tori-stafford-court-hears/article2398421/

 

[Desdemona]

So what I understood is that Tori's blood as well as a mix of "male" semen was found on the door.

To me it seems as though there is no other person than MR.

Also I am wondering if the mix came from him getting her off him when he was done and her putting her hand down there in pain getting blood as well as his semen on her hand and possibly touching that side of the door? JMO

IMO there are at least a couple of likely possibilities that would line up precisely with TLM's account of what happened:

1. The drop of blood mixed with semen fell from Tori when MR took a break between sexual assaults to pass her to TLM to 'use the washroom;' or when TLM handed her back to MR afterwards.

Tori said she needed to use the washroom, so McClintic — who said she had wandered away from the car so she wouldn't have to see what was going on — walked back to the car to help her. When that happened she could see blood in the snow, McClintic said.

She told Tori she was a "very strong girl," then handed her back to Rafferty, she said.

2. The drop of blood mixed with semen fell from Tori after the final sexual assault, when MR tossed her out of the vehicle onto the ground.

She had walked away from the car but could see Tori on Rafferty's lap in the back seat of his car, she said, and both were naked from the waist down.

After he was finished Rafferty "tossed" Tori to the ground

Quotes are from this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/0...intic-tori-stafford-last-hours_n_1344023.html

:cry: Poor little sweetheart.

 

[Wondergirl]

Rafferty heard today about all that despicable DNA evidence from his pathetic car, that he already knew about, and was probably angry that he left, and the big moment for him was when Lexi looked at him, and he started crying (for himself)?

How about the MURDERED CHILD, Rafferty?

What about Victoria Elizabeth Stafford?

Why don't you cry for HER?

:furious:

:silenced:

​

 

[swedie]

I'm not so sure that he's crying for her but rather crying for himself. And the sorry womanizing, drug addicted life that he had that he probably wants to go back to. And I guess he blames TLM for the fact that he's sitting in a jail cell right now so she gets the stare down. Because he "didn't do it".

MOO

MR probably cried because now he realizes all the women he jumped in the back seat of his car has come to an end. MR was probably told to look uninterested in the DNA stuff. It would make him appear innocent that the sexual assault never happened. Why look or listen to evidence if there's nothing there, kwim? "I didn't do it", ya right. :moo:

Every bit of what TLM has testified to is ringing true. Good for her, glad she was being honest to bring some justice for Tori. I have not been able to find any information to to show she was a chronic liar. Of course just those two lies about who kicked and stomped Tori and who bludgeoned her with the hammer. Could she be lying about that now for some strange reason? :waitasec: :moo:

 

[Salem]

Also, the piece of his back seat upholstery with foam attached was found and was cut out using a knife like the one he used. Why cut up his missing seat?JMO

This material also had blood on it, just not enough to get a profile. However, I think it is very much worth noting that this remenant, from the cut out portion of the seat had blood on it. What was on the rest of the seat?

Salem

 

[flipflop]

This material also had blood on it, just not enough to get a profile. However, I think it is very much worth noting that this remenant, from the cut out portion of the seat had blood on it. What was on the rest of the seat?

Salem

Exactly Salem, if this very small piece had "some" DNA on it, I cannot imagine what evidence would have been on the whole seat...goes to show why he covered his tracks by getting rid of the seat. Interesting that the blood was found on the back of the front seat, he probably didn't think to disinfect or wipe this area, and on the rubber lining of the door, which was probably not visible to wipe away. Im guessing this seat is a pile of ashes.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Why does he cry for Lane but he leaves a child to die and rot under a pile of rocks? According to his defense, he did not kill or rape Tori but was duped yet does not help Tori and leaves her in Mount Forest while he likely watched Tori's mother on television pleading for the return of her missing child? I just don't get it. What I suspect is that Lane was a trigger that set off a chain of decisions in his mind of what would happen a week after she breaks off with him. Decisions that he made to abduct, rape and murder a child. JMO

Interesting, I wondered the same Matou.