Trial Thread 4/11/2012

[Salem]

Tori was bleeding after the first assault. TLM testified that Tori bled on the snow, so it's not inconceivable that when TLM took Tori to piddle that some blood would have dropped on the surfaces while she was getting out of the car. That is just my opinion of course.

I think this is exactly what happened because there were sperm cells in that blood. Maybe not enough to get a DNA profile from - but enough to know they were sperm cells. MR was the only male in that car with Tori.

Salem

 

[swedie]

IMO there are at least a couple of likely possibilities that would line up precisely with TLM's account of what happened:

1. The drop of blood mixed with semen fell from Tori when MR took a break between sexual assaults to pass her to TLM to 'use the washroom;' or when TLM handed her back to MR afterwards.

Tori said she needed to use the washroom, so McClintic — who said she had wandered away from the car so she wouldn't have to see what was going on — walked back to the car to help her. When that happened she could see blood in the snow, McClintic said.

She told Tori she was a "very strong girl," then handed her back to Rafferty, she said.

2. The drop of blood mixed with semen fell from Tori after the final sexual assault, when MR tossed her out of the vehicle onto the ground.

She had walked away from the car but could see Tori on Rafferty's lap in the back seat of his car, she said, and both were naked from the waist down.

After he was finished Rafferty "tossed" Tori to the ground

Quotes are from this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/0...intic-tori-stafford-last-hours_n_1344023.html

:cry: Poor little sweetheart.

Des I believe that is how the Tori's blood and MR's semen got on the door frame/molding of MR's car too. I posted it way back in today's thread. I wonder if forensic experts will be able to determine or speculate how it got there. I don't see it as blood splatters, it's a drop from the sounds of it. And what I meant be urine being present, we know both Tori's and MR's DNA was found, but if urine is present also, it would show where all three came from.:moo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieBean
Blood splatters? If the door was left open.

Posted by Swedie - Post 178
But Tori had a garbage bag over her head to prevent that from happening. I bet the blood came from Tori's privates when she got out of or back into MR's after TLM took her to have a piddle. I wonder if urine can be detected in that blood? Here's hoping, then that would show sexual assault IMHO.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

As she left the courtroom, Mr. Rafferty watched her in tears, leaning forward and wiping his eyes.[/I]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rom-tori-stafford-court-hears/article2398421/

Boohoo, too bad so sad.

 

[Jezbel]

This material also had blood on it, just not enough to get a profile. However, I think it is very much worth noting that this remenant, from the cut out portion of the seat had blood on it. What was on the rest of the seat?

Salem

Oh gosh, that seat must have been a mess, poor poor baby

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I think this is exactly what happened because there were sperm cells in that blood. Maybe not enough to get a DNA profile from - but enough to know they were sperm cells. MR was the only male in that car with Tori.

Salem

Exactly Salem. It is going to be hard for the defence to explain that one. It is very powerful evidence against MR imo.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

A prelim is used to see if there is enough Evidence to proceed to trial and has absolutely nothing to do with disclosure. Disclosure would have been provided well before the prelim was expected to take place. The defence would do their own research on the list of witnesses the Crown provided and would have a very good indication of why the Crown was calling that witness and have a good handle on the types of questions that would be asked.

Respectfully I do not agree with your guess. The defense is not privy to questions the Crown will ask the witnesses. They can try and theorized, but that's about it. HTH and :moo:

"I am disappointed. I don't want to see my client being railroaded for the sake of expediency."

"I think a preliminary hearing is useful for ferreting out the truth," Derstine said.

The hearings also give defence lawyers a chance to assess the Crown's case and lay the groundwork for a counter attack, Syd Usprich, a University of Western Ontario law professor, said.

"It is a useful tool for the defence," he said. "It gives the defence a preliminary bite of the apple."

Defence lawyers can compare witnesses' testimony in the preliminary hearing and trial to expose holes and contradictions, Usprich noted.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2605223

It is actually not a guess, though I won't debate it. I have been in the legal professional for well over 20 years and am well versed on the proceedings of a criminal trial and how things are handled between defence and Crown.

 

[swedie]

FYI and anyone interested, this is where we are at in the trial. HTH.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. "You will see who he called, when and where he was when he made the calls," Gowdey said. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video

 

[Tahorn]

With 84 samples I had hoped for something more conclusive to prove he sexual assaulted VS especially since they were able to prove that MR and TLM had sex. Right now for me it is a she said he said case and since he hasn't said anything I just don't know.

How would the evidence fit into MR side of the story?

Now again I am in no way saying he is innocent for if I had my way he would be convicted just for the company he keeps (TLM). No matter how Tori died he was somehow involved and for that life is not long enough. BUT and it is a big BUT sometimes evil comes in the form of a young teenaged girl who knows nothing more then mulipulation and violence to get what she wanted from life.

 

[swedie]

Boohoo, too bad so sad.

<modsnip>. :floorlaugh:Wonder why he wasn't crying when he found TLM with the hammer in her hand? :waitasec: If I would have been in that horrible situation he found himself in, you wouldn't have seen me for dust down that laneway.

Why am I thinking the defense's tactic isn't going to hold up? Maybe they will say TLM and MR were having sex in the back seat while Tori was playing with the hammer and hurt herself? Ridiculous theory the defense has IMHO.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

<modsnip>. :floorlaugh:Wonder why he wasn't crying when he found TLM with the hammer in her hand? :waitasec: If I would have been in that horrible situation he found himself in, you wouldn't have seen me for dust down that laneway.

Why am I thinking the defense's tactic isn't going to hold up? Maybe they will say TLM and MR were having sex in the back seat while Tori was playing with the hammer and hurt herself? Ridiculous theory the defense has IMHO.

I found the defence's theory very weak right from the beginning. And even though they cannot build a DNA profile from the semen they found in the bloodspot, which other male was at the scene that night. No other male.

 

[swedie]

MR's mega woman list. More than likely using them all at the same time. Am I missing any women?

-TLM
-Lane
-Mabel
-Joy
-Amanda
-Kate
-BA ? probably

And ones we haven't heard about. And some we have heard from had no clue he was seeing other women and that he was taking drugs either. YIKES!! Let this be a lesson to you young ladies meeting guys on dating sites. moo

 

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~

How would the evidence fit into MR side of the story?

That's a good question. How do you think he would explain sperm cells in Tori's blood or the mixed blood sample in his gym bag?

Your guess is as good as mine as I don't think he will explain those things. He will probably try to ignore and gloss over them. Who knows if that will work?

Salem

 

[Ardy]

JMO........

TLM could be lying about her assault on VS and it really started in the back seat or back doorway of the car.

Since TLM and MR seemed to spray their DNA all over the back seat of the car, some may have landed on the molding by the rear door.

If TLM had attacked VS in the back seat and then pulled her out of the car, drops of her blood could have mixed with MR's residual fluid.......and the sperm could have been contained therein and was missed in the cleanup.

There may have been blood all over, and MR cleaned the car at the car wash and convenience store (that LE couldn't locate) and then removed the back seat to get rid of it. I tend to believe that TLM knows exactly where the back seat went. I can't imagine MR driving around with a blood soaked back seat in his car, planning on getting rid of it later. It isn't that difficult to remove a back seat........just lift up and pull.

TLM testified of flashbacks and poor memory of her attack on VS.

Maybe she just doesn't want to say.........because she wants MR to suffer.

I don't know yet.........and neither does anyone else.

I sure would appreciate some Crown evidence though........that doesn't have the words "inconclusive" attached to it.

JMO............

 

[Ardy]

JMO.......As to the gym bag, and much of the other evidence that proves MR was there, that he participated in the cleanup, and didn't reveal the crime to LE.......the defense isn't defending against those allegations, perhaps because possible charges involving those actions aren't part of this trial.

Why confuse the situation more by defending actions that are indefensible?.....MOO

 

[Tahorn]

~Respectfully snipped~

That's a good question. How do you think he would explain sperm cells in Tori's blood or the mixed blood sample in his gym bag?

Your guess is as good as mine as I don't think he will explain those things. He will probably try to ignore and gloss over them. Who knows if that will work?

Salem

I missed where Tori's blood was mixed with MR semen.

 

[OhSoCurious]

I missed where Tori's blood was mixed with MR semen.

I don't believe it was concluded that it was Tahorn.

 

[Macright]

I missed where Tori's blood was mixed with MR semen.

well I found the evidence today very confusing and finally just packed it in...I kept reading on here that there was semen mixed in with blood from Tori etc. etc. etc...every report was different...so much so that I decided that if that were the case then MR did indeed sexually assault TS BUT that does not seem to be the case...what I am reading now from various news reports IS there could be some DNA from MR mixed with TS blood or her DNA...quite different matter now to me...doesn't say semen...just DNA...could be anything...also, if MR removed his back seat for whatever reasons he could have injured himself removing it...thus the blood... so until I heard something more conclusive, well I will sit on the fence with the sexual assault...as far as the rest of the charges...well as per TLM she was the one who did the actual killing so I guess he is only responsible for being stupid and helping her cover up her crime...for that I will agree that he should serve a jail sentence... JMO

 

[Ardy]

JMO

I believe the expert testimony was that the spot of blood on the molding by the rear door...........contained VS DNA and a trace element of DNA when examined by a "sperm test". There wasn't enough DNA to determine whose DNA it was.

The assumption is that if MR was the only male there at the time.........sperm of any amount, would have to belong to him.

 

[Macright]

JMO

I believe the expert testimony was that the spot of blood on the molding by the rear door...........contained VS DNA and a trace element of DNA when examined by a "sperm test". There wasn't enough DNA to determine whose DNA it was.

The assumption is that if MR was the only male there at the time.........sperm of any amount, would have to belong to him.

it seems his sperm was all over that auto....:sick:

 

[swedie]

OK so Tori's blood and MR's sperm was found in the same spot of blood found on the door moulding. That's all the scientific evidence I need to convince me MR sexually assaulted Tori. Everything else is icing on the cake. MOO

In court on Wednesday, McLean, the lead forensic investigator in the case, told the jury that Rafferty’s blue-black Honda Civic and its contents were examined for body fluids such as blood, semen and saliva.

The DNA sample from the gym bag wasn’t an easy get.

McLean also found blood on the rear passenger side door and seat area. A bloodstain about four millimetres in diameter was found on the side door rubber moulding. DNA testing found only a 1 in 150 trillion chance it could be someone’s other than Tori.

The blood spot was also tested for sperm cells. Testing showed there was a mixture of DNA from two individuals, but the other sample was too small for reliable analysis, McLean said.

There was no blood found on a pair of white shorts with green stripes that were in the Goodlife Fitness gym bag or on the hoodie that Tori was abducted in.:waitasec:So where did this hoodie Tori was abducted in come from??:waitasec:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...bric-came-from-car-like-rafferty-s-trial-told