TURKEY - George Smith, 26, missing from cruise ship, July 2005

[fran]

I watched this 48Hour segment Saturday night. Originally I suspected the boys, but after watching this, IMHO, they didn't have anything to do with George's disappearance. Honestly, I think it may have been an accident. George was very, very, very drunk.

First, when you see the video at the Turkish police station, you can see how shocked the boys were when they learned there was blood on the canopy. IMHO, their reaction wasn't 'acting,' they genuinely appeared stunned!

When the four were told they were free to leave, they could have just walked away. But when they were advised they were going to arrest the wife, IF they had done anything to George, they would have just left. But Josh, knowing Jennifer couldn't have done anything,.... because she wasn't there,... she was too drunk,... she was too little compared to George,... to have forced him overboard, he defended her.

Josh's room wasn't really close to the Smith's room. IF you've ever been on a ship you know they're like a maze, and huge. When Jennifer got off the elevator, rather than going left as she should, she turned right. She walked down that hallway and at the very end (like a culdesac), was the door to enter a 'crew only' hallway. It was there that they found her, leaned up against the wall sitting on the floor,

When the crew member took her back to her room (by wheel chair) the bed was turned down and no one was there. They just layed her on top of the covers.

I think when Jennifer woke up, IF she had been as drunk as they said, she still was feeling a remaining effect of the alcohol. It hadn't been that long since the crew had brought her back to her room (just two or so hours). IMHO, it's not possible to sleep off as much as she'd had to drink in that amount of time.

I bet Jennifer awoke disoriented and confused as to why George wasn't there. As she still had on her evening clothes when located at the spa, perhaps when she first left her room Jennifer was looking for George. But in a still altered state she got confused and went to her spa appointment 1 1/2 hours early instead.:waitasec:

I believe Jennifer is embarrassed that her and George's wild-party-atmosphere honeymoon is being revealed not only to his and her parents, but the world. Plus, IF she'd had that much to drink and then add she may have been drugged, I believe she's completely lost that time in space. You add her husband went over board at that time, what a heavy burden to carry. Then being interrogated over and over and over about a time in your life you have no clue....

The voices the neighbors heard, thinking it was a drinking game and then briefly on the patio, could have been the four companions trying to get George to lay down or settle down. Thinking the voices were coming from the patio, could have been an open sliding door and echo.

IMHO, being as drunk as he was, after the boys left George could have started looking for more to drink in the cupboards etc. (neighbors reported no talking in the room at that time) I saw original photos a few weeks ago of their room, there were empty bottles there.

As 48Hours reveals, it was just a small amount of blood in the room and also (small) on the towel. It's possible while pillaging through the cupboards, George cut his hand. Remember, he's very, very drunk.

When he couldn't find anything to drink, George may have been the one on the patio moving the furniture around. (the neighbors didn't report any voices then either). He may have sat on the rail and accidentally fallen overboard.

The closed curtains are confusing, but the cruise line isn't known for accuracy in what they report, so I don't know IF the curtains were actually closed. Plus they never said if the boys said they were closed or open when they left. Or, perhaps Jennifer closed them before she left the room in the morning. The sun would have been coming up by then and maybe that's what woke her up so early, sunrise.

Anyway, this post is way to long so I'll shut up now.

JMHO
fran

PS....Oh, as for H Lee and his findings, this is longgg after the incident and other people had stayed in the room, etc. IMO, it's irresponsible of him to get the families hopes up that he could really find anything after that long of time. I mean even what he said he found on the railing, ......it had been exposed to the elements at sea for how long since?????? IMHO, fran

 

[fran]

OH, I'm sorry to hear about George's distrust of Jennifer and of them parting ways. I hope they can mend their differences. I really don't think Jennifer had anything to do with this.

Jennifer's demeanor since the occurance is probably her way of coping and trying to figure out in her mind what the heck happened that night. She may not even remember 'kicking George.' Plus, she is probably trying to figure out if she was actually 'drugged' that night and what happened in her unaccounted time. Was she raped?

Note: I believe I heard that after this cruise, the guy from the casino was transferred off the ship..........interesting.........

I hope anyone doesn't take my post about how much they had to drink as disparging to the newlyweds. It isn't meant to be. They were happy, young, in love, and had just been married. It was time to celebrate.

Unfortunately, it seems the 'celebrating' to exteme is what probably contributed to George's demise.

Ok, now I'll really shut up this time.

JMHO
fran

 

[tweedledee]

I agree. After reading this article, I too think this was an accident. I think the four boys left and George was rummaging around for something more to drink or maybe a cigar. The neighbor reports cupboards being opened and closed as well as hearing one man's voice. The voice might have been George's mumbling about the fight he had with his wife. He probably went out on the balcony to think, get some fresh air, or smoke his cigar. The fact that the door and curtains were closed and drawn could have been done by George. On a cruise, the attendant comes in in the evening and turns down your room. Pulling back sheets, closing curtains etc. George could have just moved the curtain out of the way instead of opening it and it fell back into place when he went out on the balcony closing the door behind him out of habit. My kids do this all the time. (not closing the door but climbing under the curtain).
If George was a really tall guy he could have tried to sit on the railing, lost his balance and fell over. I don't think this was a suicide. I think it was a man who had too much to drink and it cost him his life.
The circumstances surrounding Jennifer are something she will have to live with forever. Too much to drink, flirting, kicking George, passing out in the hallway. Most of us have done some things we regret while drinking. Unfortunately for Jennifer this time her life changed forever.
As far as George's family cutting ties with Jennifer, I could see how that could happen. Jennifer feels guilty about her behavior and is ashamed to reveal all. (maybe she was unfaithful) George's family is looking for answers. They don't want to accept that this really could have been an accident at the hands of their own son. They are looking for someone to blame for his death and don't want to believe the fault could really be George's.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I believe the witnesses (people in cabins on either side of them) said they heard three or four voices, possibly one of a woman. Also, how would you explain the cleaned up blood in the cabin? :waitasec: I believe they said that George was a "small framed" man, about 5'7. The railing would have come to chest level, impossible for him to accidentally fall over.

 

[PaperDoll]

I believe the witnesses (people in cabins on either side of them) said they heard three or four voices, possibly one of a woman. Also, how would you explain the cleaned up blood in the cabin? :waitasec: I believe they said that George was a "small framed" man, about 5'7. The railing would have come to chest level, impossible for him to accidentally fall over.

I thought they said George was a big guy? did I misread this? :waitasec:

I think Jennifer was drugged or had some of that alcohol that they mentioned in the article that was very potent.. I also think George had some, too... I don't know what to think about this, I don't know if it was an accident or murder... Why was their blood in the cabin? Looked like a lot of blood on the canapy as well .. :waitasec:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I thought they said George was a big guy? did I misread this? :waitasec:

I think Jennifer was drugged or had some of that alcohol that they mentioned in the article that was very potent.. I also think George had some, too... I don't know what to think about this, I don't know if it was an accident or murder... Why was their blood in the cabin? Looked like a lot of blood on the canapy as well .. :waitasec:

I saw his family on Nancy Grace's show last night and that's what someone said. I was surprised too, but they brought up the fact that it was taken into consideration (that he may have fallen over the railing on accident) and that it would have come up to "chest level." I guess there may have been some sort of struggle in the cabin (or something) and blood was on some "items." They didn't say specifically. It was hard for me to tell just how much blood there was on that canapy, because you don't know the vantage point of the individual taking the photograph, but the woman who did take it was there too and she described it as a "very large pool of blood that was very dark in the center" or something to that effect.

 

[PaperDoll]

I saw the pic of the blood stained canopy, it was too much blood for an accident, meaning, If he fell over he apparently landed on the canopy first, hard to say how much blood you would spill on something that isn't that hard a surface.. I'm assuming the canopy wasn't hard.. I'm thinking he was bleeding before he hit the canopy...

I'm also starting to think that the guy who used the restroom had something to do with this... Didn't he tell his friends to go on without him? I can't remember but if this is true, I think it's because he was up to something and didn't want them to know...

 

[jilly]

Fran I watched the 48 Hrs show too and I agree with you in that the boys had nothing to do with his death. Especially Josh.

George and his wife had sooooo much to drink. They were even drinking shots of that overproof stuff in the end. I can certainly see how Jennifer would suffer a blackout as a result of this. And, I think, that George after going on his balconey and ingesting all that oxygen would have been beyond polluted.

It amazes me that the ship would continue to serve that much alcohol. I mean even in airplanes they cut people off - don't see how it would be any different at sea although I guess that is a possibility. Maybe the family should be launching a civil suit on this basis.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Fran I watched the 48 Hrs show too and I agree with you in that the boys had nothing to do with his death. Especially Josh.

George and his wife had sooooo much to drink. They were even drinking shots of that overproof stuff in the end. I can certainly see how Jennifer would suffer a blackout as a result of this. And, I think, that George after going on his balconey and ingesting all that oxygen would have been beyond polluted.

It amazes me that the ship would continue to serve that much alcohol. I mean even in airplanes they cut people off - don't see how it would be any different at sea although I guess that is a possibility. Maybe the family should be launching a civil suit on this basis.

I heard that the "Russians" smuggled Absinthe into the bar. They weren't serving them. They most likely had drinks after they left the bar too.

 

[jilly]

I heard that the "Russians" smuggled Absinthe into the bar. They weren't serving them. They most likely had drinks after they left the bar too.

Ohhhh, ok - that makes me feel a bit better. Wow, I can't believe the amount of booze. If that had been me they would have been following my barf trail!!

 

[lilpony]

So, what I can't figure out is...if one of those men did murder George, is WHY. It has not been reported, that they were robbed of money or anything, that I have heard. So that is what I can't figure out, if he was murdered. WHY???

 

[kato]

I saw the pic of the blood stained canopy, it was too much blood for an accident, meaning, If he fell over he apparently landed on the canopy first, hard to say how much blood you would spill on something that isn't that hard a surface.. I'm assuming the canopy wasn't hard.. I'm thinking he was bleeding before he hit the canopy...

I'm also starting to think that the guy who used the restroom had something to do with this... Didn't he tell his friends to go on without him? I can't remember but if this is true, I think it's because he was up to something and didn't want them to know...

I don't think the canopies were cloth I think they were some sort of metal.

 

[PaperDoll]

I don't think the canopies were cloth I think they were some sort of metal.

You are probably right, I wasn't sure myself..

 

[kato]

You are probably right, I wasn't sure myself..

I just think they look kinda hard.

 

[luvbeaches]

There was blood, George is indeed gone and there "might" have been a scuffle. All in all, at his time at least, no crime.

I disagree. I think there is evidence of a crime.

One thing is very clear...to me, anyway. If you really want to kill someone, the place to do it is on a cruise ship. Push them overboard, and that's that. The cruise line is going to do everything in their power to keep things hushed, or try and convice everyone it was a suicide...rather than to allow a complete and correct investigation. And who has jurisdiction over these ships? The country where they are registered (and none of them are registered with the US). If it happens in international waters who investigates? The cruise line is only insterested in unloading one group of passengers and reloading the next. Ever been on a cruise? It's amazing to watch how they completely turn the ship around for the next batch of passengers in a short period of time.

 

[tweedledee]

I believe the witnesses (people in cabins on either side of them) said they heard three or four voices, possibly one of a woman. Also, how would you explain the cleaned up blood in the cabin? :waitasec: I believe they said that George was a "small framed" man, about 5'7. The railing would have come to chest level, impossible for him to accidentally fall over.

The 48 hours article stated that the neighbor initially heard several voices, but then after seeing the men in the hallway only heard one male voice and what sounded like furniture moving.
I wish we knew whose blood it was found in the room. Again, the article stated that there was a small amount on the towel in the bathroom as well as a small drop on the bed and another small drop on the carpet. It went on to say that there was no evidence of splattering of blood indicative of a struggle. Maybe George or Jennifer cut themselves shaving earlier in the evening or George got a knick somewhere when he fell over in the casino prior to them taking him to his room.
I have been on several cruises and the rails on the balconies are not chest level unless you are petite. I am 5'10" and the rails come up about high waist level on me. I read or heard somewhere that George was a "big guy" which is why the "boys" said Jennifer couldn't have pushed him over because she is petite.
One thing that does puzzle me though is the amount of blood on the canopy. I don't know what the distance was from the balcony to the canopy, but I can't imagine it was too far. If he fell over, he would have hit the balcony and then slid off. Unless he didn't slide off right away and laid there for a while and didn't fall off till he tried to move and then fell off.
If it was murder, I just don't see the motive.

 

[nanandjim]

...If it was murder, I just don't see the motive.

From the amount of blood on the canopy, I believe that George was severely injured/cut before "being pushed" over the railing.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I've been trying to find out George's height and I think I was WRONG. It says he's 6'2, so pretty tall. Could he have fallen over the rail? If he did fall over the rail, would the fall alone be enough to cause that much blood?

 

[Jules]

I've been trying to find out George's height and I think I was WRONG. It says he's 6'2, so pretty tall. Could he have fallen over the rail? If he did fall over the rail, would the fall alone be enough to cause that much blood?

Jeana, I thought he was taller than what was posted before. I think he did fall over. I've always thought that.

I'm wondering if he (forgive me, I don't know how else to say this) got snagged on something as he went over either the rail or at the top of the awning - a rivit, nail - something that could have cut him as he went over. That could account for the blood.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I thought he was taller than what was posted before. I think he did fall over. I've always thought that.

I'm wondering if he (forgive me, I don't know how else to say this) got snagged on something as he went over either the rail or at the top of the awning - a rivit, nail - something that could have cut him as he went over. That could account for the blood.

If there weren't all those reports of hollering going on before the "thud" of him apparently hitting the deck, I might be inclined to believe that. I just think its way too coincidental to believe that he had several people in there, they apparently had some sort of argument, and he winds up missing the next day and all that's left is a pile of blood?