GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[ToutCa]

I understand the car could not have driven to the exact spot. But surely a 110lb women could have been carried. If the perp knew the area well, he would have known exactly how to access this spot.

I agree. I don't see why carrying a small woman there would be so impossible.

But note that the unconfirmed story this morning has Turkish LE saying evidence shows she was killed on the spot and never moved.

This is most definitely unconfirmed as we wait for official word.

 

[lavy]

:what:

Looking at this writing in its entirety, I'm pretty sure what the author is questioning is why American seem to think that this event had anything to do with her being America, or in Turkey. She references the Pippa story, and how she was not American. She also talks about how violence exists everywhere. I think she is saying society should take issue with violence in general, and not turn it into a profiling, racism, or gender issue. That's how I was best able to understand it anyway.

Not really; I had a tiny translation somewhere.

She is not referring why American seem to think that this event had anything to do with her being America, or in Turkey at all.

It is really focusing on attitude of society (mainly turkish people) blaming them to be hypocrites.

"What she says is everytime when a women is murdered when she is wandering alone society either talks or thinks "what she was doing there alone", "why would she meet with people she met on internet" and these things shouldn't matter. She was a human being and was killed. She didn't need any of these labels. We are still looking for a reason for her death and this should NOT be this way.

We can't protect the turkish women. Today we are talking about Sarai (and trying to solve the case) but after her things will go back the way it was. Would US save our women too? ..."

 

[ToutCa]

I hope they took samples from her landlord too. Didn't liked the fact that she didn't feel safe at the place she is staying.

Turkish press reporting samples taken from landlord/airBnb host as well.
Many Websleuthers were asking that he be looked at -- sounds like they are:

LINK

It really appears Turkish LE is being very exhaustive and exploring all possibilities. I'm impressed with their work so far...

 

[ThinkHard]

This just made me think. Wasn't there some jewelry still on her body AND some jewelry buried? What if the perp, in an attempt to woo her, bought her some expensive jewelry. Then when whatever happened happened ,in the panic of leaving, he buried the jewelry that could possibly be traced back to him (maybe through credit cards/ store cameras)??? Just a thought. I've been trying to figure out why some jewelry would be left on her body and some removed and buried. Maybe the jewelry left on her body was her own jewelry that she brought with her on the trip. No need to hide that.

That's a good point. If the jewelry she was wearing was all marked 14k, and the jewelry buried was marked 585, this would indeed seem very odd. In the US gold Jewelry is mark 14k (10k, 12k, 18k, 24k) but in turkey as well in other parts of Europe Jewelry is marked as to what percentage f the metal is gold. .585 is the equivalent to 14k.
If she has both types of jewelry at the scene, I would definitely wonder about the ones with the European markings. We know she hasn't been out of the country before so how would she have had them in her possession?

And if those were the buried ones, it would make sense the murdere would have left them with the body.

Which also reminds me why I think it's so strange about where her body was. How did someone manage to attack her, drags her, conceal her, and burry jewelry. A random criminal who happened upon her would not have take time to burry her jewelry, and only some of it. I find that peace very interesting. Almost like how the ancient Egyptian would bury the dead with expensive things. It's telling. I'm just not sure of what.

 

[tresptip]

Not really; I had a tiny translation somewhere.

She is not referring why American seem to think that this event had anything to do with her being America, or in Turkey at all.

It is really focusing on attitude of society (mainly turkish people) blaming them to be hypocrites.

"What she says is everytime when a women is murdered when she is wandering alone society either talks or thinks "what she was doing there alone", "why would she meet with people she met on internet" and these things shouldn't matter. She was a human being and was killed. She didn't need any of these labels. We are still looking for a reason for her death and this should NOT be this way.

We can't protect the turkish women. Today we are talking about Sarai (and trying to solve the case) but after her things will go back the way it was. Would US save our women too? ..."

I think the murderer was someone she knew.
She probably would have been safer going there alone without any online people knowing she was going there.

 

[ThinkHard]

If there was a romantic lead that was luring her over there, wouldn't LE find that in her computer and phone logs? There would have to be a lot of messages/texts/emails/calls to get that ball rolling, imo.

And surely her friend that dropped out at the last minute would have known about it. JMO

There would not be records if the conversed via Skype.

Also it's been considered that perhaps he phone and iPad were taking to delete evidence of these very communications.

 

[lavy]

I likely path would have been along Kennedy cadessi. I believe her body was found by the base of the walls.

I don't get the logic that her body couldn't have been brought there by car. We saw exactly how close the walls were to the road in that location. I understand the car could not have driven to the exact spot. But surely a 110lb women could have been carried. If the perp knew the area well, he would have known exactly how to access this spot.

I think we would need confirmation for that but generally it is easy to determine if she is carried or not by police isn't it? In this case its been days but still surely they can say from blood traces, broken branches etc.

I find it a little ironic that she was close to the Saray (palace) pronounced as sarai, in an area called Cankurtaran (life saver) and next to Keneddy Caddesi.

 

[Yashim]

As a local of Istanbul, I am really sorry about what happened to Sarai. And if she weren’t involved in anything illegal and took every precaution for her safety, then it’s Istanbul police and municipality to blame. One part of me hopes that there is more to Sarai’s visit to Istanbul so that it wouldn’t be all our fault. Traveling 6000 miles to photograph mosques; her friend backing out, but she must stick to the plan; short trips to the Netherlands and Germany. In Turkey, I read many comments suggesting that she may be involved in some sort of drug trafficking.

And compliments to Thinkhard. Excellent observations on Turkish culture and Istanbul. Yet you shouldn’t be hard on each other. Turkey is a different country. During 1999 earthquake, reporters came from all over the world to cover the earthquake. Those coming from the West said they felt they have arrived East, and those coming from the East said they felt they have arrived West. It is a very unique country.

And, there is some truth that all prejudiced opinions are based on. Turkish people have such wide range of emotions and very dynamic too. If this is a random act of violence, the person who killed Sarai, could have saved her life on another day. OT but a few weeks ago, the police was trying to put out a protest meeting in the southeast, where there is political unrest. And they start spraying the protestors away from a water canon vehicle and protestors are retaliating with throwing stones. At one point the vehicle gets stuck in mud, the protestors stop and push the vehicle out of the mud. Check out for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8IxFZY3zQ

That only happens in Turkey.

I also think it is true that Americans stand out, but I would have never picked Sarai out in a crowd. With her appearance, headphones, taking pictures with an ipad, many will assume that she is Turkish.

Pants/panties around the knees to humiliate? And similar comments sound too “Criminal Minds” stuff to me. In Turkey, we don’t have much of that. In Turkey, we don’t even have serial killers, i.e. unless they are too lazy to stick to a pattern.

I think Taylan suspected something fishy about Sarai’s trip, and feared for his life that’s why police agreed to interrogate him at another station. And Sarai could be out on her last day in Istanbul to do something very important – not just to take a few more pictures. And perhaps the body was just moved there and a stone with blood stains were placed to make it look like a random act of violence.

The sad thing is even if the killer is caught, we may never know the entire story.

By the way the quotation on Ferhat’s page is from a poem by a Turkish poet. I am not sure if Lavy translated it by here is my version:

“There was someone I didn’t love.
She didn’t love me either.
We agreed to meet one day at some place.
I didn’t go.
She didn’t show up either.”

Weird, huh?

 

[ToutCa]

Which also reminds me why I think it's so strange about where her body was. How did someone manage to attack her, drags her, conceal her, and burry jewelry. A random criminal who happened upon her would not have take time to burry her jewelry, and only some of it. I find that peace very interesting. Almost like how the ancient Egyptian would bury the dead with expensive things. It's telling. I'm just not sure of what.

See upthread -- the unconfirmed story allegedly from police today is that the jewelry and headphones were not buried per se, but rather fell off and became embedded in the dirt as SS fought off an attempted rape.

That is, again, unconfirmed. But it is the story in multiple press reports this morning.

 

[SurfieTX]

Welcome to Websleuths, Yashim.

 

[lavy]

Few things I missed from new reports (I think they updated the page)

Blood samples from 22 people was sent to forensic medicine institution. There are 3 Iranians (2 women) among these 22. Also Taylan too.

The police is continuing their search at the area. All passasges, corridors in the walls would be searched carefully and it will take at least 10 days.

Pathological samples, hair and tissue samples are in criminal labs.

LE is trying hard to find her ipad and phone. And its been expected her email archive to be sent today and tomorrow. Says normally it would take much longer but LE expedited the process.

It really appears Turkish LE is being very exhaustive and exploring all possibilities. I'm impressed with their work so far...

Maybe it is still early to say this but so far Turkish LE's work is impressive and Turkish press is a huge failure.

TOUTCA, I am also very impressed your search within turkish reports.

 

[ToutCa]

I think Taylan suspected something fishy about Sarai’s trip, and feared for his life that’s why police agreed to interrogate him at another station. And Sarai could be out on her last day in Istanbul to do something very important – not just to take a few more pictures. And perhaps the body was just moved there and a stone with blood stains were placed to make it look like a random act of violence.

First of all, welcome to WS and thank you for your post. Your condolences mean a lot to the many who are upset by this crime.

That said,

(1) You are wrong, there have been Turkish serial killers -- for example, Adnan Colak (known as the 'Artvin Monster') and Ozgur Dengiz.

(2). As for your theory of the crime, come on, man. We can all make up wild conspiracy theories -- why not add aliens, ghosts, Lady Gaga and the Pope? We need to wait for the physical evidence to come in here, but it is ludricous and absurd to say that if DNA and blood evidence points to Taylan, this is anything beyond a crime of passion.

 

[ToutCa]

Maybe it is still early to say this but so far Turkish LE's work is impressive and Turkish press is a huge failure.

TOUTCA, I am also very impressed your search within turkish reports.

Thank you, but it is you who has provided the expertise to correct my many errors!

I think you are too hard on the Turkish press. They are very sensationalistic, but that is true in many countries. I just learned -- quickly -- not to take anything on face value and to keep looking at multiple reports to see if various parts of the story become confirmed....

 

[ThinkHard]

Not really; I had a tiny translation somewhere.

She is not referring why American seem to think that this event had anything to do with her being America, or in Turkey at all.

It is really focusing on attitude of society (mainly turkish people) blaming them to be hypocrites.

"What she says is everytime when a women is murdered when she is wandering alone society either talks or thinks "what she was doing there alone", "why would she meet with people she met on internet" and these things shouldn't matter. She was a human being and was killed. She didn't need any of these labels. We are still looking for a reason for her death and this should NOT be this way.

We can't protect the turkish women. Today we are talking about Sarai (and trying to solve the case) but after her things will go back the way it was. Would US save our women too? ..."

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[lavy]

Welcome Yashim.

By the way the quotation on Ferhat’s page is from a poem by a Turkish poet. I am not sure if Lavy translated it by here is my version:

No, I am lazy I copied the translation. :blushing:

By the way I believe that Ferhad guy is not related to the case. Although the poem is really ironic. I don't know what was his connection, how his fb page was found but I feel bad to comment on his fb.

To start with he is only 21? and just started to university. Taylan is said to be 31 and university graduate (I know I know not confirmed.)

In Turkey, we don’t even have serial killers, i.e. unless they are too lazy to stick to a pattern.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Good point.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think we would need confirmation for that but generally it is easy to determine if she is carried or not by police isn't it? In this case its been days but still surely they can say from blood traces, broken branches etc.

I find it a little ironic that she was close to the Saray (palace) pronounced as sarai, in an area called Cankurtaran (life saver) and next to Keneddy Caddesi.

I said the same thing a day or two ago about the fact I thought it was creepy!

 

[lavy]

Thank you, but it is you who has provided the expertise to correct my many errors!

I think you are too hard on the Turkish press. They are very sensationalistic, but that is true in many countries. I just learned -- quickly -- not to take anything on face value and to keep looking at multiple reports to see if various parts of the story become confirmed....

Ok, you might be right. I have to admit my anger to them is not about this case. I'll say something good: I think fast in terms of providing information. We never have to wait long to learn a new piece of information.

I said the same thing a day or two ago about the fact I thought it was creepy!

Ah I was trying to remember if it was said or not.

 

[KuriousKev]

For those who have criticized Ms. Sierra for undertaking this journey to such a "dangerous" city:

she was over eight times more likely to be murdered at home in NYC than in Istanbul.

That's right, over eight times:
LINK

Did the survey factor in couchsurfing and sharing your whereabouts with potentially 100s of strangers? I'm sure that survey would catch fire and burn with the numbers souring so fast and high. Crazy world we live in.

 

[ThinkHard]

As a local of Istanbul, I am really sorry about what happened to Sarai. And if she weren’t involved in anything illegal and took every precaution for her safety, then it’s Istanbul police and municipality to blame. One part of me hopes that there is more to Sarai’s visit to Istanbul so that it wouldn’t be all our fault. Traveling 6000 miles to photograph mosques; her friend backing out, but she must stick to the plan; short trips to the Netherlands and Germany. In Turkey, I read many comments suggesting that she may be involved in some sort of drug trafficking.

And compliments to Thinkhard. Excellent observations on Turkish culture and Istanbul. Yet you shouldn’t be hard on each other. Turkey is a different country. During 1999 earthquake, reporters came from all over the world to cover the earthquake. Those coming from the West said they felt they have arrived East, and those coming from the East said they felt they have arrived West. It is a very unique country.

Merhaba Yaşim!

Teşekkürler! I am only trying to give a realistic perspective on Turkey, based on my experience, as it pertains to this case, in order to help rule in and rule out theories based on it.

I hope you understand that I wasn't trying to imply that all Turkish people are alike. Of course like within any country there is diversity amongst its people.
I can only speak from my own experiences that come from living there for over a year. I also lived with a Turkish family the entire time, had both Turkish and American friends, traveled throughout Turkey, and took the time to understand the language, culture, and religion. This was only 4 years ago that i lived there, and i have been back 4 times since, as recently as living there this past summer from June through August. I will always have a part of my heart in Istanbul!
Perhaps my experience is partly due to who I am as a person and how I conduct myself. (When i travel i always remember that i am a guest in someone else's country). My experience might have also been partly due to how I look. I think I look pretty American. But I have also been mistaken as Russian numerous times while in Istanbul, and when I was in Israeli, the locals thought I was Israel, that is before I opened my mouth and apologized for not knowing any Hebrew.

Additionally you do not need to apologize for Sarai's death. It is not the fault of Turkey, but the fault of a person. And it is that person who should be blamed, not Turkey and certainly not Sarai.

 

[CMac2]

If there was a romantic lead that was luring her over there, wouldn't LE find that in her computer and phone logs? There would have to be a lot of messages/texts/emails/calls to get that ball rolling, imo.

And surely her friend that dropped out at the last minute would have known about it. JMO

Could she have been deleting the more... uh... "exciting" emails/texts/IMs? Many people delete messages as they go, and don't just leave them in their inboxes for any length of time- specifically so others don't see them. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it is possible.