GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #1

[CMac2]

I've asked this earlier today but I want to bring it up again:

How do you meet with someone in instagram? You comment on each others photos and then what ??? How do you go to the next stage (e.g. how do you give your email address?) Is there a messaging facility?

To piggyback on someone else's response here, after commenting on each other's posts on IG, if one feels there is a "connection" of some sort, you would probably exchange I'M user names and begin chatting. From there you would escalate to exchanging phone numbers and texting and/or Skyping.

 

[ThinkHard]

Good point. I guess it depends whether the motive was simple rape, or some weird notion they should be together. That is to say, if it was one guy.

I have a hard time believing that someone would have lured her there just to rape her. If rape was the only motive, she could have easily been drugged, and taken advantage of without the need to resort to that level of violence.

 

[KivaSupporter]

Manuel Manukyan, owner of the Nevzat funeral company, told the Hürriyet Daily News that he was in contact with the U.S. consulate on the issue and had also informed the family about the costs.

He said he saw the preliminary forensic report before taking the body. Some wounds were clearly seen, he said. “There are serious blows, particularly to her head and face.”

The company is waiting for authorization papers from the U.S., but the timing of the delivery of the body remains unclear, Manukyan said.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/funeral-firm-confirms-us-victims-heavy-wounds-as-family-awaits-body-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=40537&NewsCatID=341

 

[ThinkHard]

I think someone flirted with her on the street while she was photographing, maybe walked with her to the walls talking to her about her photography,then when the right place came to attack,he attacked.

I just don't by this. I give her more credit. If she went there with someone it was because they gained her trust.

Also five blows to the head is VERY aggressive. A stranger would not have had that much anger to her.

And I really don't think in broad daylight some random is just going to pick out a girl, bring her to a public spot, and rape her. I might be wrong but I just don't see if.

Violent crime like that is also just FAR less common in Istanbul then in the US.
I'd be more likely to buy that scenario here, but Turkey just doesn't seem to fit that for me.

 

[ToutCa]

I hear ya. The only thing though is he said he was waiting for her on the Eminonu side of the Galata bridge, not exactly near where her body was found. It's about a half an hr by foot from her location to the location he said he was waiting. Though not on the other side of Istanbul, I wouldn't exactly call that in the same location.

I wonder if he deleted his email because Sarai's husband was harassing him.

I think it's going to come out that their is another male in this picture.

As far as whether it was a planned attack...I don't think it was. The only other possibility, and I think it's a bit of a stretch boarding on conspiracy....is that whoever did do this to her, was highly organized and knowledgeable enough to know exactly how to make this look like it was Taylan. This biggest leak in that is what would the motive be?

Why do you keep posing such good questions??

If it was Taylan: he asked to meet her at Eminonu either because he didn't plan the attack OR because he DID plan it, thought he might be tracked down afterward, and wanted to be able to deny he was ever at Sarayburnu. For all we know, he got her to the Galata Bridge, then switched to some other form of communication to lure her onward to Sirkeci/Sarayburnu (to try to cover his tracks).

I'm sure he deleted his email once the husband was on him. If it were me, I would understand the "harassment", keep the communication open nonetheless and do all I could to help find my vanished friend. Deleting the email and hiding did Taylan no favors in anyone's eyes, we can at least say that.

I'm sure there are other IG/Istanbul pal males in the picture. I bet they're DNA-testing them all right now. The question will be if any of them were in the area Jan. 21.

There will be a lot of conspiracy theories claiming "Taylan was framed" if physical evidence comes to point to him. I'm inclined to ignore them and trust the physical evidence whether it points to Taylan or, indeed, exculpates him...

 

[ToutCa]

I have a hard time believing that someone would have lured her there just to rape her. If rape was the only motive, she could have easily been drugged, and taken advantage of without the need to resort to that level of violence.

There are different kinds of rapists, sadly. Some are the sneaky, date-rape variety but some are aggressive and violent -- and seek to include that element actively in their crimes. But as I said, my own pet theory is like yours, seeing this as a crime of passion stemming from a romantic rejection rather than a simple rape. The extremity of the violence here definitely gives me pause, though...

 

[bourne]

Good point. I guess it depends whether the motive was simple rape, or some weird notion they should be together. That is to say, if it was one guy.

I'm with you on this one. I'm not sure if it was only one person (and my #1 suspect is Taylan) or two or more people. If they would give us the full AR report and the specifics about the direction and depth of the bruises on her face and cuts on her body, we may be able to determine that.

Since she wasn't raped, I don't think it was about sex. Otherwise, the perp would have forcibly raped her even as she was resisting.

I think there's a deep-seated hatred there towards her. I just can't figure out why. What's the motive behind this savage's hate towards Sarai? That she's a woman? A strong, confident woman? A courageous woman taking beautiful photos and traveling alone in a foreign land?

 

[mrsu]

I checked Sarai's IG account...it's public on it it says
"EyeEm: @memyselfsarai"

So I'm guessing this is how.

I don't see instant messenger capabilities through IG, except to comment on pictures. But her IG account is slightly different it's @mymyself_sarai.

So I'm guessing that name is for a different application, just not sure which one.

Nevermind. I was wrong.

 

[bourne]

I hear ya. The only thing though is he said he was waiting for her on the Eminonu side of the Galata bridge, not exactly near where her body was found. It's about a half an hr by foot from her location to the location he said he was waiting. Though not on the other side of Istanbul, I wouldn't exactly call that in the same location.

I wonder if he deleted his email because Sarai's husband was harassing him.

I think it's going to come out that their is another male in this picture.

As far as whether it was a planned attack...I don't think it was. The only other possibility, and I think it's a bit of a stretch boarding on conspiracy....is that whoever did do this to her, was highly organized and knowledgeable enough to know exactly how to make this look like it was Taylan. This biggest leak in that is what would the motive be?

Looks like guilt or an attempt to conceal evidence on Taylan's part, if you ask me.

Why bother deleting emails especially since mail servers have records and copies of your emails in their archives and databases?

I do believe the attack was premeditated. The extent of violence, hate, and rage -- pummeling her head that many times and with such force and severity to her death -- is too extreme for it to be an accident. I don't think it was a mere passerby who came upon her and decided impulsively to kill her. There's too much anger there. The murderer has to have some personal connection to her and what she represents to him.

 

[ToutCa]

I think there's a deep-seated hatred there towards her. I just can't figure out why. What's the motive behind this savage's hate towards Sarai? That she's a woman? A strong, confident woman? A courageous woman taking beautiful photos and traveling alone in a foreign land?

Maybe that's she's all of those things...and won't be "his". It would just underscore his own inadequacy.

But you would have to combine those feelings with deep-seated misogyny and severe self-esteem issues, at the very least, I would think...

 

[CMac2]

I hear ya. The only thing though is he said he was waiting for her on the Eminonu side of the Galata bridge, not exactly near where her body was found. It's about a half an hr by foot from her location to the location he said he was waiting. Though not on the other side of Istanbul, I wouldn't exactly call that in the same location.

I wonder if he deleted his email because Sarai's husband was harassing him.

I think it's going to come out that their is another male in this picture.

As far as whether it was a planned attack...I don't think it was. The only other possibility, and I think it's a bit of a stretch boarding on conspiracy....is that whoever did do this to her, was highly organized and knowledgeable enough to know exactly how to make this look like it was Taylan. This biggest leak in that is what would the motive be?

I think he purposely put himself on the other side of that bridge- or claimed to have been over there. He wasn't so dumb as to admit to standing within a stone's throw of where her body was found. I think the only reason he's even admitting he was there at all is because he can't be sure he's not on surveillance video himself.

 

[KivaSupporter]

More than a dozen people were questioned in the case but most of them have been released, Milliyet reported. It said three people were still being held for questioning.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/02/04/sarai-sierra-autopsy-details-released-as-fbi-joins-investigation/#ixzz2K2cwtA5c

 

[lavy]

Ehem... more conflicting information from turkish media.

When she was found her coat and bag wasn't there although she had them when she was last seen on surveillance.

(Initial reports said she had her bag with her with extra pairs of shoes)

They are searching for these items around the walls.

They also claim that her trousers weren't on when she was found but it was in the hole. Trousers had many cuts on it and it is in the criminal lab.

http://haber.stargazete.com/guncel/sarai-sierra-cinayetinde-flas-gelisme/haber-725212

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm with you on this one. I'm not sure if it was only one person (and my #1 suspect is Taylan) or two or more people. If they would give us the full AR report and the specifics about the direction and depth of the bruises on her face and cuts on her body, we may be able to determine that.

Since she wasn't raped, I don't think it was about sex. Otherwise, the perp would have forcibly raped her even as she was resisting.

I think there's a deep-seated hatred there towards her. I just can't figure out why. What's the motive behind this savage's hate towards Sarai? That she's a woman? A strong, confident woman? A courageous woman taking beautiful photos and traveling alone in a foreign land?

I've got to believe it was more personal then that. I don't find those reasons to be strong enough motives.

If it was an IGer who was an artsy guy. Artsy guys can be many things but one of them is brooding. Perhaps this personal was very emotional by nature.
Turkish men tend to be much better sweet talkers then American men, they also when wooing a women seem to us the word love quite quickly.

My bet is it was personal, and it had more to do with this persons perception of the intimacy of their relationship and not wanting to let her go.
Again five blows speaks to rage. Aimed at face perhaps masking her beauty so no one else could ever enjoy it agin, even in death.

I think this person had an issue with being possessive. I do not think they were trying to take advantage of her in a sexual way. That scenario could also play out in aggression, I just don't believe the physical evidence would point to the same level of rage.

 

[belimom]

I really think this was done by someone she 'knew' - either from IG (such as Taylan) or someone she met through one of those people or Taylan.

Given that she is a native New Yorker, I think she had street smarts and would not have gone alone to shady places or made herself look vulnerable. So I think she went to a secluded spot with someone she 'knew'.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think he purposely put himself on the other side of that bridge- or claimed to have been over there. He wasn't so dumb as to admit to standing within a stone's throw of where her body was found. I think the only reason he's even admitting he was there at all is because he can't be sure he's not on surveillance video himself.

The side of the bridge he's claiming to have been waiting for her at is the side that's on the golden horn, which is the side closer to where her body was found, not the opposite. But still a half hr walk from her body. Also where he says he was, is a very popular spot to be. Very touristy, very busy. It's at one end of the Galata bridge, right next to a tram stop, across from the spice market and Yeni Cami. So I don't find his location odd.

Where she was found, though tourists do walk there, I would still call it off the beaten path, not just to tourist but to locals.

Just trying to help you paint a picture. Your theory could still hold some truth but understanding the two location might be helpful so I thought I'd share.

 

[ami]

My guess is that this tragedy really has little to do with where it took place, culture or nationality. I think that putting her photos on Instagram...just fourmonths ago...and finding praise and acclaim for her very real talent...opened up a new exciting world to this young wife and mother. Suddenly, she was "meeting" and being praised by artistic young men in wonderful cities around the world. Her hard working husband of 14 years may have suddenly seemed dull to her.

(respectfully snipped for space)

The fact that she was coming home early may indicate she was missing her REAL life. I don't think anyone necessarily wanted to force her to stay. It might just be temper, or emotional issues etc...all things easily disguised in an online personality.

This might have happened meeting some strange artist in Kansas. She just thought that knowing they also loved photography, was all she needed to know.

I agree with your summary except for the bolded parts. I so far don't really see anything that says she was bored with her husband or found him dull. Traveling without him doesn't have to mean there was a problem, just that she had her own life and interests. And I'm still in the camp of buying her IG posts that there was a problem with her college enrollment that she had to attend to in person. She didn't change her plans directly before she left - her post about leaving early came somewhere around the Amsterdam trip, and so she must have changed that earlier. Mix in some homesickness for her boys. I get that....

I've asked this earlier today but I want to bring it up again:

How do you meet with someone in instagram? You comment on each others photos and then what ??? How do you go to the next stage (e.g. how do you give your email address?) Is there a messaging facility?

I saw some posts Sarai made to others in NY about getting together for photo walks. I got the feeling they'd done that before a few times (she says "another photo walk" in her posts about NY). So this trip was probably the international extension of the photo walks.

I personally think most people are good, non-murderers, non-rapists and so the overwhelming majority of the time your interactions would be positive for getting together. Sarai sounded like she had really good interactions with IG people. Her A'dam "guide" seemed like a smart and fun person, too. I can understand how she felt confident about something she had done before and enjoyed.

I think the kill was more about violence, power and control rather than romance. And I do believe Taylan is involved.

Okay here's my thing about Taylan.

Didn't she leave the house THINKING she was going to meet with Taylan? She asked to meet with him, he said he'd meet with her, she went to the Bridge intending (I'm assuming) she would meet with him. So why would she have met with a different IG'er instead? How would she have changed her plans so quickly that when Taylan didn't show up and she got tired of waiting for him, she was able to contact yet another IG'er and arrange to meet with him instead? And how would she have communicated? She didn't have her Turkish cell with her (by all reports) and so she'd have to use wifi, and as our "locals" have said, that's not necessarily easy to come by on the fly. She would have to have stopped somewhere, asked to use the internet... that sounds like something someone would have remembered, a waiter, etc.

So that's why I think it was either Taylan or someone she met while walking around... because she left the house believing she would probably meet up with him and so I can't see how she'd have made other plans with someone else at the same time.

 

[CMac2]

Since she wasn't raped, I don't think it was about sex. Otherwise, the perp would have forcibly raped her even as she was resisting.

I think rape is rarely about sex to begin with. I'm thinking more along the lines of power, control, rage, a need to defile and humiliate. Not a sexual thing at all.

What I can't decide is WHY he didn't go through with the rape. Was he physically unable to "perform"? Was he interrupted- not actually interrupted, but perhaps he heard voices, a car going by, something to make him think he would be seen/caught? Did he purposely NOT rape her, only making it look as if he had to throw everyone off?

 

[ToutCa]

When she was found her coat and bag wasn't there although she had them when she was last seen on surveillance.

They also claim that her trousers weren't on when she was found but it was in the hole. Trousers had many cuts on it and it is in the criminal lab.

http://haber.stargazete.com/guncel/sarai-sierra-cinayetinde-flas-gelisme/haber-725212

Good catch. They said that stuff about the coat and bag missing yesterday, but I forgot about it in the rush of all the other information.

The torn trousers are interesting. It goes back to the early reports of stab wounds...wonder if a knife was involved? Or if the torn jeans is just from the beating...?

 

[CMac2]

Good catch. They said that stuff about the coat and bag missing yesterday, but I forgot about it in the rush of all the other information.

The torn trousers are interesting. It goes back to the early reports of stab wounds...wonder if a knife was involved? Or if the torn jeans is just from the beating...?

All good explanations for why her trousers could have been torn. Is it also possible they were torn from her having been dragged? If they were heavier/sturdier material like denim, I suppose that's less likely.