GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[Stormy415]

I've been reading this case since day one and it has me banging my head against the wall.:banghead: I really wish the LE would make another small statement about the case to give us more clues to go on.

I've read everyone's theories, and mine is a crime of passion committed by Taylan.

Do you think the LE has given lie detector tests to the remaining five suspects? I would think if one failed, the LE is just waiting for the DNA results to make an arrest.

One thing that really bothers me is that package that was sent to her from the USA. ( if that story is true) I want to know what was in it. Will we ever get an answer??? I think not unless it has to do with the murder.

 

[zarra30]

I read it as the husband was describing the landlord as being very apologetic and broken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/n...sland-woman-a-grim-and-uncertain-odyssey.html

 

[Yellow]

I thought it read that the landlord was describing Mr. Sierra as being the one who was very apologetic. :waitasec:

The Times article only interviews Steven, not the landlord so they are quoting Steven saying that the landlord was apologetic and broken.

To me, if someone appears "broken" at a situation, that means to me they feel bad for what happened, that they express empathy or compassion for what happened; why else would one be "broken" unless they felt bad?

Apologetic could mean 2 things, it could be that he expresses empathy for the loss, that he expressed sympathy or compassion. Or it could mean that he apologized, meaning that he felt he could have done more to look after her, etc, even though he had no obligation to

Was landlord young or old? I could see an elderly man being apologetic, perhaps seeing her as a daughter and maybe feeling the need to look out for her

But I believe landlord was young, a student at local university I recall. So I am not sure what he would need to apologize for. I think they mean apologetic in the first meaning, meaning that he emphasized w Stevens loss, that he expressed compassion for Stevens loss. That is how I read it. And that is why I mentioned compassion in the first post. The tone of it indicates to me that landlord felt bad, bc why else would be look broken?

 

[necco]

As to the possibility of a credit card and bankruptcy:
A secured credit card is a way to have a credit card and reestablish credit after a bankruptcy. In a nutshell, a secured credit card requires a person to put a deposit down and then allows them to charge (and then pay off) an amount up to the amount they deposited.

 

[scoobyrubi]

hello, this is my first post :newhere

The girl friend (username: notperfect_butmine) that was supposed to join Sarai on her trip posted a picture of a book that she had on IG " dancing with cats" , she tagged Sarai into the post stating that "it will arrive in the morning"

It's not really clear if she meant she would receive it in the morning or Sarai would.

It was posted on IG about 4 weeks ago... I may be barking up the wrong tree but I thought that maybe it could be the package that was sent to her in Turkey ... ?

Apologies if this has already been covered

 

[Yellow]

I've been reading this case since day one and it has me banging my head against the wall.:banghead: I really wish the LE would make another small statement about the case to give us more clues to go on.

I've read everyone's theories, and mine is a crime of passion committed by Taylan.

Do you think the LE has given lie detector tests to the remaining five suspects? I would think if one failed, the LE is just waiting for the DNA results to make an arrest.

One thing that really bothers me is that package that was sent to her from the USA. ( if that story is true) I want to know what was in it. Will we ever get an answer??? I think not unless it has to do with the murder.

Is it true or not that LE says that DNA cleared Taylan? I know LE did not come out directly and say Taylans name but they did say they cleared 22 people I believe and it has been implied that Taylan is one of those people cleared. And LE said directly Taylan is not a suspect.

Taylan, I agree, would be prime suspect but I think we should first establish whether or not LE has cleared him. Why would they directly say he is NOT a suspect? Is it true they are saying that as all MSM is reporting or are there translation issues?

Is it common in Turkey for them to not call anyone a suspect until there is an imminent arrest? Is it common, like it is here, to use different terms, like person of interest v. Suspect? In all, what does it mean in Turkey to say someone is NOT a suspect? Perhaps it does not mean the same thing as here,

for those who think Taylan did it: If he has been cleared, what would be the reason you think he is still a suspect? Is it you do not believe LE? is it that you think preliminary tests could be wrong? Is it that you think perhaps he did not leave DNA? Is it that you believe Taylan had her killed but he himself did not do the killing?

Seems today alot of people are posting they think Taylan is the killer, but no one is discussing how they get around the DNA issue w him and the fact that LE says he is NOT a suspect.

As I said, Taylan looks suspicious but he could just be a scummy Casanova and I know usually on WS we are careful about sleuthing innocent people, especially people who have been cleared.

As I recall, LE says there is killer DNA on SS and it does not match any of the people tested.

 

[ThinkHard]

We need new info....we seriously just keep going in circles....new people jumping in rehashing the same theories again and again until we end up right back where we left off....nothing new and nothing eye opening for days.....everything has been covered, everything that has been released has been analyzed to death on more then one occasion.

I wonder if the DNA results for the most recent round of people will come back soon, maybe tomorrow....will we hear about it? I hope so.....we seriously need new info

 

[Herat]

Whatever the landlord said to Steven Sierra sounds completely innocent and consoling.

"I'm sorry" in English does not mean "I feel regret for doing something", it means "I'm sorry for your loss". Whether a Turkish translation sounds like an apology or kind words, I just think it is all one can say at a time like that.

 

[bourne]

Is it true or not that LE says that DNA cleared Taylan? I know LE did not come out directly and say Taylans name but they did say they cleared 22 people I believe and it has been implied that Taylan is one of those people cleared. And LE said directly Taylan is not a suspect.

Taylan, I agree, would be prime suspect but I think we should first establish whether or not LE has cleared him. Why would they directly say he is NOT a suspect? Is it true they are saying that as all MSM is reporting or are there translation issues?

for those who think Taylan did it: If he has been cleared, what would be the reason you think he is still a suspect? Is it you do not believe LE? is it that you think preliminary tests could be wrong? Is it that you think perhaps he did not leave DNA? Is it that you believe Taylan had her killed but he himself did not do the killing?

Seems today alot of people are posting they think Taylan is the killer, but no one is discussing how they get around the DNA issue w him and the fact that LE says he is NOT a suspect.

As I said, Taylan looks suspicious but he could just be a scummy Casanova and I know usually on WS we are careful about sleuthing innocent people, especially people who have been cleared.

As I recall, LE says there is killer DNA on SS and it does not match any of the people tested.

I think LE says Taylan is not a suspect in order to throw off their suspicion of him.

The list is too long for why Taylan is my #1 suspect but here are a few:
1) Physical proximity to victim. He lives near where her body was found.
2) Intimacy shared with victim. He claims they had sex in the public toilet at a bar, but only after reports came out that LE found semen on her. Prior to that, he denied any sexual involvement.
3) Scheduled meeting at/near site where victim's dead body was found.
4) Last communication from victim was to Taylan about meeting that day she was murdered.
5) Taylan claimed he did not speak to victim because he was "asleep" and "missed her calls." Yet he knew where to meet her.
6) Taylan claimed he showed up at scheduled site but victim was not there. We have only his words that they never met up that day.
7) Some reports claimed Taylan went with a friend to the scheduled site that day. I think he's using this friend as an alibi.
8) Taylan doesn't try to contact Sarai after she fails to show up at scheduled site and even days after she went missing.
8) Taylan doesn't contact Turkish LE when Sarai has gone missing.
9) Taylan doesn't ask about Sarai -- e.g., did she return home safely? -- until Sarai's husband contacts him and asks him where is his wife.
9) Taylan quickly deletes his IG and email accounts after learning she's gone missing.
10) Taylan does not look for Sarai even though he knew LE was actively searching for her.
11) Taylan does not help Sarai's husband and Sarai's brother find Sarai in Istanbul.

Any way you look at it, Taylan acted in manners inconsistent with an innocent man.

 

[bourne]

The Times article only interviews Steven, not the landlord so they are quoting Steven saying that the landlord was apologetic and broken.

To me, if someone appears "broken" at a situation, that means to me they feel bad for what happened, that they express empathy or compassion for what happened; why else would one be "broken" unless they felt bad?

Apologetic could mean 2 things, it could be that he expresses empathy for the loss, that he expressed sympathy or compassion. Or it could mean that he apologized, meaning that he felt he could have done more to look after her, etc, even though he had no obligation to

Was landlord young or old? I could see an elderly man being apologetic, perhaps seeing her as a daughter and maybe feeling the need to look out for her

But I believe landlord was young, a student at local university I recall. So I am not sure what he would need to apologize for. I think they mean apologetic in the first meaning, meaning that he emphasized w Stevens loss, that he expressed compassion for Stevens loss. That is how I read it. And that is why I mentioned compassion in the first post. The tone of it indicates to me that landlord felt bad, bc why else would be look broken?

If it's the landlord apologizing, that would make sense.

 

[Herat]

How do we know TK lives in the area where her body was found?

(Not that I am asking for the address, I'm not. I don't recall his home neighborhood being mentioned before)

 

[Yashim]

I think LE says Taylan is not a suspect in order to throw off their suspicion of him.

The list is too long for why Taylan is my #1 suspect but here are a few:
1) Physical proximity to victim. He lives near where her body was found.
2) Intimacy shared with victim. He claims they had sex in the public toilet at a bar, but only after reports came out that LE found semen on her. Prior to that, he denied any sexual involvement.
3) Scheduled meeting at/near site where victim's dead body was found.
4) Last communication from victim was to Taylan about meeting that day she was murdered.
5) Taylan claimed he did not speak to victim because he was "asleep" and "missed her calls." Yet he knew where to meet her.
6) Taylan claimed he showed up at scheduled site but victim was not there. We have only his words that they never met up that day.
7) Some reports claimed Taylan went with a friend to the scheduled site that day. I think he's using this friend as an alibi.
8) Taylan doesn't try to contact Sarai after she fails to show up at scheduled site and even days after she went missing.
8) Taylan doesn't contact Turkish LE when Sarai has gone missing.
9) Taylan doesn't ask about Sarai -- e.g., did she return home safely? -- until Sarai's husband contacts him and asks him where is his wife.
9) Taylan quickly deletes his IG and email accounts after learning she's gone missing.
10) Taylan does not look for Sarai even though he knew LE was actively searching for her.
11) Taylan does not help Sarai's husband and Sarai's brother find Sarai in Istanbul.

Any way you look at it, Taylan acted in manners inconsistent with an innocent man.

What would be his motive?

 

[bourne]

hello, this is my first post :newhere

The girl friend (username: notperfect_butmine) that was supposed to join Sarai on her trip posted a picture of a book that she had on IG " dancing with cats" , she tagged Sarai into the post stating that "it will arrive in the morning"

It's not really clear if she meant she would receive it in the morning or Sarai would.

It was posted on IG about 4 weeks ago... I may be barking up the wrong tree but I thought that maybe it could be the package that was sent to her in Turkey ... ?

Apologies if this has already been covered

Could very well be. Do you have the exact title and author of the book?

 

[Yashim]

Do we know where TK lives?

I'm guessing Yeniköy.

 

[zarra30]

The Times article only interviews Steven, not the landlord so they are quoting Steven saying that the landlord was apologetic and broken.

To me, if someone appears "broken" at a situation, that means to me they feel bad for what happened, that they express empathy or compassion for what happened; why else would one be "broken" unless they felt bad?

Apologetic could mean 2 things, it could be that he expresses empathy for the loss, that he expressed sympathy or compassion. Or it could mean that he apologized, meaning that he felt he could have done more to look after her, etc, even though he had no obligation to

Was landlord young or old? I could see an elderly man being apologetic, perhaps seeing her as a daughter and maybe feeling the need to look out for her

But I believe landlord was young, a student at local university I recall. So I am not sure what he would need to apologize for. I think they mean apologetic in the first meaning, meaning that he emphasized w Stevens loss, that he expressed compassion for Stevens loss. That is how I read it. And that is why I mentioned compassion in the first post. The tone of it indicates to me that landlord felt bad, bc why else would be look broken?

I really do agree with you and you make a very good argument. The guy probably felt horrible. She was a guest in his home and now she is missing and her husband is there, crushed.

My point was that the press is often irresponsible and print things to sell without quoting or fact checking and we assume that it is true.

People read something and come away with their own interpretations, based on their ability to translate, life experiences, etc. We've all done it. You saw it as compassionate. Another could see it as shock or imbalance. A cop might see it as guilt. Another reverses who is saying what to who, and I wanted to bring up how we need to be careful in what we read and assume. Everyone has different ideas and it makes for amazing guesses and leads.

You pointed out that her children will read all those articles someday. Thank you, I agree. You seem compassionate, as am I as a mother, and my heart breaks for those children. But so will the children of Ammer and Taylan and the 2 hostel/landlord guys and everyone else who is in this tragedy and all who may turn out to be completely innocent and have no involvement in her murder.

On this forum we can express all ideas and that's great because we think and express opinions and are not saying salacious things to sell papers.

I just think the press needs to quote people, not make up or assume facts and suggest involvement, they should have more accountability and accuracy, that's really what I meant to say. Sorry if it came out wrong!

 

[scoobyrubi]

Could very well be. Do you have the exact title and author of the book?

Dancing with Cats : Authors : Burton Silver and Heather Busch

 

[bourne]

What would be his motive?

I already gave the motive in prior posts.

From what I see, Taylan is a cocky, arrogant jerk. No gentleman here. He's cheap, disrespectful of Sarai, doesn't pay for her dinner. He also claimed she had sex with him in the toilet, like she was some cheap .

They make plans for the day she went missing. He claims he overslept, misses her calls. Another rude disrespectful thing to do to a woman if it were true. Yet he still shows up at the scheduled meeting place, according to him, and according to some reports, he shows up with a friend. Maybe he thought all three of them could have a threesome. Who knows? In any case, he appears to be a man who thinks very little of Sarai, like she's garbage to be used and abused.

I think she rejected his (and his friend's if there was indeed another friend there) advances that day. He already has an overblown ego. He probably shouted some obscenities at her. She shouts some back. He strikes and lashes out at her, etc.

 

[Herat]

I'm guessing Yeniköy.

Is that a prison or something, Yashim :jail:

Is sure doesn't look very close to Sarayburnu

 

[Yellow]

I think LE says Taylan is not a suspect in order to throw off their suspicion of him.

The list is too long for why Taylan is my #1 suspect but here are a few:
1) Physical proximity to victim. He lives near where her body was found.
2) Intimacy shared with victim. He claims they had sex in the public toilet at a bar, but only after reports came out that LE found semen on her. Prior to that, he denied any sexual involvement.
3) Scheduled meeting at/near site where victim's dead body was found.
4) Last communication from victim was to Taylan about meeting that day she was murdered.
5) Taylan claimed he did not speak to victim because he was "asleep" and "missed her calls." Yet he knew where to meet her.
6) Taylan claimed he showed up at scheduled site but victim was not there. We have only his words that they never met up that day.
7) Some reports claimed Taylan went with a friend to the scheduled site that day. I think he's using this friend as an alibi.
8) Taylan doesn't try to contact Sarai after she fails to show up at scheduled site and even days after she went missing.
8) Taylan doesn't contact Turkish LE when Sarai has gone missing.
9) Taylan doesn't ask about Sarai -- e.g., did she return home safely? -- until Sarai's husband contacts him and asks him where is his wife.
9) Taylan quickly deletes his IG and email accounts after learning she's gone missing.
10) Taylan does not look for Sarai even though he knew LE was actively searching for her.
11) Taylan does not help Sarai's husband and Sarai's brother find Sarai in Istanbul.

Any way you look at it, Taylan acted in manners inconsistent with an innocent man.

I agree, taking together all this circumstantial evidence looks very very fishy. And if Taylan is not the killer, he has to be the most unlucky person on the planet right now,

But if you assume DNA is true, how do you get over the fact that the DNA does not match? It has to be more than simply the LE is trying to throw us off...

I mean, if the DNA matched, and given ALL the circumstantial evidence mentioned above, they would have arrested Tayan by now, right? so the DNA must not match.

How does one make out a viable theory about Taylan w his DNA not matching? Also, recall LE says there is killer DNA so it is not just the case that Taylan killed her without leaving DNA

I could see there could be theories, either you do not believe police when they say No DNA match (problem here is why disbelief of police on this? If they had DNA match they would have arrested him so there must not be a match). Another theory could be that Taylan arranged the killing but he did not himself do it. Another theory could be that he planted the DNA of another (one poster had this theory but others did not agree). All at the same time, he wiped away all his DNA and planted another's (what LE claimed Amanda Knox did - wiped away all her DNA but leave Rudy's - impossible to do, IMO!).

Maybe there are other theories too. But I do not think any of these other theories are very strong.

On the one hand there is very strong circumstantial evidence against Taylan, we know that, we debated that for days, we all know Taylan is the number one suspect and there is a strong circumstantial case,

But how reconcile that w fact that his DNA is not a match? If glove don't fit, have to acquit right? If no DNA match, and taking LE at word there is in fact killer DNA, how could Taylan be guilty? No one addresses this question. How could Taylan be killer w no DNA match? His DNA cannot be a match or else they would have arrested him...

One poster mentioned above too re: Taylan and Amman and landlord's kids reading this someday. That is why I think we really need to be careful in accusing people.this can affect people's lives, their jobs, etc.

There is extremely strong evidence against Taylan. But there is compelling forensic evidence too that not only suggests he did not do it, but, in a court of law, would be sufficient to actually clear him. We hear all the time about foreign DNA clearing some poor guy locked away for 40 years for a crime they did not do. It would be the same here; the presence of foreign DNA that police say is killers and does not match Taylan gives us reasonable doubt. That fact alone could actually clear him, no matter what the circumstantial evidence suggests: if cop says killer DNA and it ain't yours, there could not be an arrest let alone conviction.

So how get over the fact that there is exculpatory evidence here? How could Taylan be the killer when his DNA is not a match?

 

[Yashim]

I already gave the motive in prior posts.

From what I see, Taylan is a cocky, arrogant jerk. No gentleman here. He's cheap, disrespectful of Sarai, doesn't pay for her dinner. He also claimed she had sex with him in the toilet, like she was some cheap .

They make plans for the day she went missing. He claims he overslept, misses her calls. Another rude disrespectful thing to do to a woman if it were true. Yet he still shows up at the scheduled meeting place, according to him, and according to some reports, he shows up with a friend. Maybe he thought all three of them could have a threesome. Who knows? In any case, he appears to be a man who thinks very little of Sarai, like she's garbage to be used and abused.

I think she rejected his (and his friend's if there was indeed another friend there) advances that day. He already has an overblown ego. He probably shouted some obscenities at her. She shouts some back. He strikes and lashes out at her, etc.

Ok, then he had the motive to strike and lash out at her. Killing someone is different.

If he had done it, then

- he would either disappear from the Internet and maybe even Istanbul

or

- he would have tried to help SS's husband, Steven, and not broken his contact (by going offline, changing handle, deleting accounts, etc.)

Yet he did something in between. He either wasn't directly or didn't have anything to do with it.

When SS's husband tried to contact her, he must have felt "I don't want to be a part of this". Maybe he thought Sara might have taken off to some other place and Steven was just being over-possessive. He just didn't want anything to do with it.

If he had known that something bad happened to Sarai, Taylan wouldn't have acted that way at the expense of looking suspicious.