GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[Yashim]

Is that a prison or something, Yashim :jail:

Is sure doesn't look very close to Sarayburnu

ThinkHard came up with the idea that he must living in a posh neighbourhood. And his lawyer's office in in Sariyer, the far end of the Bosporus, on the European side, near the Black Sea. And the closest posh neighbourhood is Yeniköy, which has an suburb feel to it with 2-3 story villas right by the Bosporus.

Sarayburnu is just the opposite end yet on the same (European) side.

I am not 99% sure, but maybe 5% and that's not bad.

Why do we need the address for anyway?

 

[kmassoud]

I agree, taking together all this circumstantial evidence looks very very fishy. And if Taylan is not the killer, he has to be the most unlucky person on the planet right now,

But if you assume DNA is true, how do you get over the fact that the DNA does not match? It has to be more than simply the LE is trying to throw us off...

I mean, if the DNA matched, and given ALL the circumstantial evidence mentioned above, they would have arrested Tayan by now, right? so the DNA must not match.

How does one make out a viable theory about Taylan w his DNA not matching? Also, recall LE says there is killer DNA so it is not just the case that Taylan killed her without leaving DNA

I could see there could be theories, either you do not believe police when they say No DNA match (problem here is why disbelief of police on this? If they had DNA match they would have arrested him so there must not be a match). Another theory could be that Taylan arranged the killing but he did not himself do it. Another theory could be that he planted the DNA of another (one poster had this theory but others did not agree). All at the same time, he wiped away all his DNA and planted another's (what LE claimed Amanda Knox did - wiped away all her DNA but leave Rudy's - impossible to do, IMO!).

Maybe there are other theories too. But I do not think any of these other theories are very strong.

On the one hand there is very strong circumstantial evidence against Taylan, we know that, we debated that for days, we all know Taylan is the number one suspect and there is a strong circumstantial case,

But how reconcile that w fact that his DNA is not a match? If glove don't fit, have to acquit right? If no DNA match, and taking LE at word there is in fact killer DNA, how could Taylan be guilty? No one addresses this question. How could Taylan be killer w no DNA match? His DNA cannot be a match or else they would have arrested him...

One poster mentioned above too re: Taylan and Amman and landlord's kids reading this someday. That is why I think we really need to be careful in accusing people.this can affect people's lives, their jobs, etc.

There is extremely strong evidence against Taylan. But there is compelling forensic evidence too that not only suggests he did not do it, but, in a court of law, would be sufficient to actually clear him. We hear all the time about foreign DNA clearing some poor guy locked away for 40 years for a crime they did not do. It would be the same here; the presence of foreign DNA that police say is killers and does not match Taylan gives us reasonable doubt.

So how get over the fact that there is exculpatory evidence here? How could Taylan be the killer when his DNA is not a match?

Maybe they found two people's DNA on the body (the friend?). One of the DNA was Taylans, but they don't know if it was from the night before or the killing....and they are trying to figure out who the other person is by making Taylan believe he is not a suspect?

 

[Yellow]

I already gave the motive in prior posts.

From what I see, Taylan is a cocky, arrogant jerk. No gentleman here. He's cheap, disrespectful of Sarai, doesn't pay for her dinner. He also claimed she had sex with him in the toilet, like she was some cheap .

They make plans for the day she went missing. He claims he overslept, misses her calls. Another rude disrespectful thing to do to a woman if it were true. Yet he still shows up at the scheduled meeting place, according to him, and according to some reports, he shows up with a friend. Maybe he thought all three of them could have a threesome. Who knows? In any case, he appears to be a man who thinks very little of Sarai, like she's garbage to be used and abused.

I think she rejected his (and his friend's if there was indeed another friend there) advances that day. He already has an overblown ego. He probably shouted some obscenities at her. She shouts some back. He strikes and lashes out at her, etc.

I agree, I think he trolls the Internet looking for young women to hook up with. This incident really will damage his reputation regarding that bc he will no longer be able to do that, at least under his other name. Maybe his gmail account was a fake to begin with, and deleted it bc he knows he can no longer use that user name to attract girls anymore.

Being a Casanova is a far cry from being a murderer. As I said in last post, his behavior is very suspicious, he is a jerk and seems to have only been after sex, but I do not see how you can get over the DNA evidence,

Also, recall too if you believe him he had just slept w Stevens wife. He might have thought Steven would beat him up or something so I could see not disclosing his location. Also maybe he just did not want to get involved, he probably thought SS just ran off....

 

[Herat]

Why do we need the address for anyway?

Bourne's #1 premise in the List of Reasons Taylan is a Murderer

1. Physical proximity to the victim. He lives near where the victim was found.


I was just asking if that had ever been disclosed. I was not asking for a physical address. I am not a stalker.

 

[Yellow]

Maybe they found two people's DNA on the body (the friend?). One of the DNA was Taylans, but they don't know if it was from the night before or the killing....and they are trying to figure out who the other person is by making Taylan believe he is not a suspect?

Yes, I think that would be the only viable theory, that LE is not being totally up front and that in fact Taylans DNA does match somewhere on the body but it is only semen match not fingernail

I guess fingernail DNA could be from sex too but maybe less likely than semen match,

I wonder if fingernail DNA is a match for Taylan or not? LE implies it is not Taylan, and if not, then Taylan seems like he could only be suspect if there was a second person involved.

 

[Rolandred]

I think LE says Taylan is not a suspect in order to throw off their suspicion of him.

The list is too long for why Taylan is my #1 suspect but here are a few:
1) Physical proximity to victim. He lives near where her body was found.
2) Intimacy shared with victim. He claims they had sex in the public toilet at a bar, but only after reports came out that LE found semen on her. Prior to that, he denied any sexual involvement.
3) Scheduled meeting at/near site where victim's dead body was found.
4) Last communication from victim was to Taylan about meeting that day she was murdered.
5) Taylan claimed he did not speak to victim because he was "asleep" and "missed her calls." Yet he knew where to meet her.
6) Taylan claimed he showed up at scheduled site but victim was not there. We have only his words that they never met up that day.
7) Some reports claimed Taylan went with a friend to the scheduled site that day. I think he's using this friend as an alibi.
8) Taylan doesn't try to contact Sarai after she fails to show up at scheduled site and even days after she went missing.
8) Taylan doesn't contact Turkish LE when Sarai has gone missing.
9) Taylan doesn't ask about Sarai -- e.g., did she return home safely? -- until Sarai's husband contacts him and asks him where is his wife.
9) Taylan quickly deletes his IG and email accounts after learning she's gone missing.
10) Taylan does not look for Sarai even though he knew LE was actively searching for her.
11) Taylan does not help Sarai's husband and Sarai's brother find Sarai in Istanbul.

Any way you look at it, Taylan acted in manners inconsistent with an innocent man.

I pretty much agree. What do you think about a "romantic" internet scam gone wrong? There are two very different photos supposedly of Taylan being published - one looks like a middle aged guy and one a professional flattering type younger guy(such as may be used in internet scams) - He's unemployed, they split the restaurant bill, her husband sent extra money...mmm.

If not Taylan, maybe the culprit fake tour guides? Someone in this thread earlier on said she was hanging out with her instagram "friends" the week before she left to Amsterdam - are they implicated? Just some thoughts.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Could very well be. Do you have the exact title and author of the book?

screengrab of the instagram post. seems to me like her friend ordered it for herself. she posted to SS maybe bc it was something they had spoken about.

 

[Herat]

This incident really will damage his reputation ....

Snort. Yeah.

 

[Yellow]

Snort. Yeah.

Yep, no more action for Taylan. But I bet he changed his name online, I bet in fact he might still be up online w another name looking for women...

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

taylan's behavior is definitely suspicious. i wouldn't doubt that he had something to do with it. they don't have enough evidence to arrest, maybe? they may have found semen, but his alibi supports that. could it maybe have been with another person, possibly?

 

[StCirq]

I haven't had time to follow all this today, so apologies if this has been covered, but wanted to bring up two points.

<<Friends of Mr. Jimenez introduced them to “friends of friends,” who put them up during their stay, Mr. Sierra said.>>

It's a bit ambiguous, but does this suggest that Jimenez had contacts/friends in Turkey?

And with regard to cell phones, I travel overseas quite a bit. My cell, which I purchased on Amazon.com for $26.00, is an unlocked,, quad-band, tri-SIM, GMS phone that works perfectly all over the world. I just have to pop in whatever country's SIM card I need at the time. No contract, no plan, and extremely inexpensive to use.

 

[NewYork625]

I think LE says Taylan is not a suspect in order to throw off their suspicion of him.

The list is too long for why Taylan is my #1 suspect but here are a few:
1) Physical proximity to victim. He lives near where her body was found.
2) Intimacy shared with victim. He claims they had sex in the public toilet at a bar, but only after reports came out that LE found semen on her. Prior to that, he denied any sexual involvement.
3) Scheduled meeting at/near site where victim's dead body was found.
4) Last communication from victim was to Taylan about meeting that day she was murdered.
5) Taylan claimed he did not speak to victim because he was "asleep" and "missed her calls." Yet he knew where to meet her.
6) Taylan claimed he showed up at scheduled site but victim was not there. We have only his words that they never met up that day.
7) Some reports claimed Taylan went with a friend to the scheduled site that day. I think he's using this friend as an alibi.
8) Taylan doesn't try to contact Sarai after she fails to show up at scheduled site and even days after she went missing.
8) Taylan doesn't contact Turkish LE when Sarai has gone missing.
9) Taylan doesn't ask about Sarai -- e.g., did she return home safely? -- until Sarai's husband contacts him and asks him where is his wife.
9) Taylan quickly deletes his IG and email accounts after learning she's gone missing.
10) Taylan does not look for Sarai even though he knew LE was actively searching for her.
11) Taylan does not help Sarai's husband and Sarai's brother find Sarai in Istanbul.

Any way you look at it, Taylan acted in manners inconsistent with an innocent man.

The fact that her face was disfigured and her clothing partially removed is what makes me think it was an attempted rape, and that she knew the attacker (crime of passion due to the extent of her injuries).
Since her handbag and coat were missing, perhaps she was attacked in someone's apartment. That someone would not have had robbery as a motive (hence she still had her jewelry), and he may have kept the handbag with the ipad and phone in it, and her coat, either out of sloppiness, or as momentos.
Also, I still think it's possible that she sustained some of the injuries as her lifeless body was thrown down the hillside by the walls or over the wall she was found next to. The attacker may not have had the strength, or it may have simply been easier than trying to carry her down the steep hillside shown in the crime scene photos.
Assuming her body was placed where it was found after the apartment attack (and I'm not saying it wasn't a stranger or another IG member she met up with later) I still hope that Taylan's apartment has been searched.
ETA The attacker must surely, at the very least, have scratch marks somewhere on his body from Sarai fighting back. I hope the Turkish media/Turkish LE has alerted the public and hospitals/doctors to the fact that they should report anyone with unusual and unexplained wounds.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

I haven't had time to follow all this today, so apologies if this has been covered, but wanted to bring up two points.

<<Friends of Mr. Jimenez introduced them to “friends of friends,” who put them up during their stay, Mr. Sierra said.>>

It's a bit ambiguous, but does this suggest that Jimenez had contacts/friends in Turkey?

i read something vague that sounded like that in the last posted nytimes article. i recall it saying something like church-related missionaries...but yeah, seems very odd that SS wouldn't hook up with those people seeing as her family are very devoted.

 

[Rolandred]

I've been reading this case since day one and it has me banging my head against the wall.:banghead: I really wish the LE would make another small statement about the case to give us more clues to go on.

I've read everyone's theories, and mine is a crime of passion committed by Taylan.

Do you think the LE has given lie detector tests to the remaining five suspects? I would think if one failed, the LE is just waiting for the DNA results to make an arrest.

One thing that really bothers me is that package that was sent to her from the USA. ( if that story is true) I want to know what was in it. Will we ever get an answer??? I think not unless it has to do with the murder.

a package? I have not heard this.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

a package? I have not heard this.

she was due to receive some documents. we were all hypothesizing yesterday. package showed up when she was missing.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

The fact that her face was disfigured and her clothing partially removed is what makes me think it was an attempted rape, and that she knew the attacker (crime of passion).
Since her handbag and coat were missing, perhaps she was attacked in someone's apartment. That someone would not have had robbery as a motive (hence she still had her jewelry), and he may have kept the handbag with the ipad and phone in it, and her coat, either out of sloppiness, or as momentos.
Assuming her body was placed where it was found after the apartment attack (and I'm not saying it wasn't a stranger or another IG member she met up with later) I still hope that Taylan's apartment has been searched.

all sounds plausible to me. and her body was dumped at some point at night. but the story about the woman seeing the car and the hand -- that wasn't true, right?

 

[Yashim]

Bourne's #1 premise in the List of Reasons Taylan is a Murderer

1. Physical proximity to the victim. He lives near where the victim was found.

I truly doubt this.

However, one side note:

The female witness lives in Gayrettepe, Be&#351;ikta&#351;.

And the investigation is also handled by the "Gayrettepe Asayi&#351; &#350;ube Müdürlü&#287;ü" (Gayrettepe Public Security Division). This is because the Missing Persons Unit is located there.

But Taylan didn't want to go there. First reason was the reporters. Maybe second reason, he lives around there too. He could easily be recognized.

So maybe he live in Gayrettepe. But please don't go stalk him.

 

[Herat]

she was due to receive some documents. we were all hypothesizing yesterday. package showed up when she was missing.

I thought the package was reported as being delivered very early in her trip. Something like "15-20 days ago" as mentioned by the postman on Jan 28. That would place it prior to the Amsterdam visit.

 

[english]

An inaccurate report but interesting comments

http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2013/feb/10/letter-istanbul-death-sarai-sierra/

Anzing is a place about 23km from Munich.

 

[Yashim]

Do you think the LE has given lie detector tests to the remaining five suspects? I would think if one failed, the LE is just waiting for the DNA results to make an arrest.

The administration of lie detector tests are illegal in Turkey. Neither the law enforcement nor the suspect can demand it.

In Turkish Criminal Procedure Code:

Procedures forbidden during the interview and interrogation

Article 148 – (1) The submissions of the suspect or accused shall be stemming from his own free will. Any bodily or mental intervention that would impair the free will, such as misconduct, torture, administering medicines or drugs, exhausting, falsification, physical coercion or threatening, using certain equipment, is forbidden.

http://www.justice.gov.tr/basiclaws/cmk.pdf

Perhaps, that "certain equipment" is detailed with a directive. Or a poor choice of adjective in translation.