GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[alpmighty]

Not that I believe in them, but do they use polygraphs in Turkey?

No, polygraph usage has no place in investigation and prosecution in Turkey.

 

[Yashim]

I don't do it, but I know plenty of people here in the US who ask visitors to take their shoes off to protect their floors.

I heard they did it in Northern parts of Sweden, too.

 

[NewYork625]

I don't know if this was already posted:

http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2013/feb/10/letter-istanbul-death-sarai-sierra/

"(Ed’s note: Late this past week, the New York Post reported that FBI investigators now say that Serai’s trip may not have been so “innocent.” She reportedly met with “criminal element” while in Istanbul, and investigators are now looking into the possibility of drug trafficking )"

 

[Yellow]

Inviting you in for tea is Turkish hospitality, not aggressiveness.

Oh I didn't mean it as aggressive, I meant it as two separate thoughts. Inviting on for tea is a Turkish custom and I was just noting it to give it context, since many people on this board would not know that you get tea when you go to buy a carpet. I think they give biscuit too, not just tea. Most do not do that here, they just take your money and no goodies ::fence:

 

[Yashim]

No, polygraph usage has no place in investigation and prosecution in Turkey.

I just quoted the Turkish Criminal Procedures Code.

Nobody's reading my posts?

Without me, this investigation will get nowhere.

 

[bourne]

I pretty much agree. What do you think about a "romantic" internet scam gone wrong? There are two very different photos supposedly of Taylan being published - one looks like a middle aged guy and one a professional flattering type younger guy(such as may be used in internet scams) - He's unemployed, they split the restaurant bill, her husband sent extra money...mmm.

If not Taylan, maybe the culprit fake tour guides? Someone in this thread earlier on said she was hanging out with her instagram "friends" the week before she left to Amsterdam - are they implicated? Just some thoughts.

I think those pics are of one and the same man, Taylan. Sometimes cameras and lighting capture us appearing different physically. That's why it's important to look at lots of pics of same person in order to "average" out their appearances. The average is generally the most accurate.

What do you mean by a romantic internet scam?

It's possible that she caught the eye of someone in Istanbul and he stalked her to scam/rape/rob her. I think the perp(s) are more likely someone she actually spoke to and had some contact with. That is, not a complete stranger.

To me, the murder is way too personal to be a random stranger. The manner in which her face/head was beaten suggests that the perp felt justifiably enraged, that he felt she deserved the beating. It also suggests the perp had some physical attraction to her face. Otherwise he would not seek to completely annihilate it with such force and anger.

I'm banking that it's Taylan, or another man with whom she had spoken to in Istanbul, like the landlord, tour guide(s), or another IG friend.

 

[SandyP]

Question: if Sarai was followed on the various surveillance cameras to roughly the place where the body was eventually found. And if no surveillance camera showed her leaving that area, then why did Turkish authorities say she was Murdered elsewhere (didn't they Even Say "in someone's apartment" and the body brought back and dumped at the scene?

 

[ThinkHard]

We don't know if they were trying to make her face unrecognizable. They were just trying to kill her or perhaps silence her.

LE said that the blows have made her face (almost) unrecognizable. To suggest that her face was hit that hard and repeatedly.

If somebody had wanted to make her unrecognizable, they would have done it so. But since she was reported missing, that would still be a vain attempt. Every female body discovered around that time was first checked to see if it was SS. And the body would be discovered sooner or later in that cave.

Nobody attempts to kill someone when they know that there is a chance that they may be linked to the crime.

And call me biased, but I don't think Turks are capable of committing crimes.

But even when they do, it's hard to direct such rage towards someone they know unless they are psychopaths. And if this was the case, SS would have avoided them.

Therefore, it's a random act of violence committed by a hobo, age 25-30, weight 60 kg, height 1.70 m.

Yashim with all due respect, just like in any other country domestic violence is an issue in turkey, its an issue in the US too, so I'm not saying this is exclusively a Turkish problem. But statistically we can prove just like its an issue in the US its also an issue in TUrkey.

Domestic violence by definition is rage directed at someone you know. So how can you say with certainty that someone committing rage against someone they know doesn't happen in Turkey? That just makes no sense at all.

I think random crime is FAR less common in Turkey then most countries, particularly the US. But to try to say rage against a known victim doesn't happen in Turkey, is just not true.

 

[bourne]

Oh I didn't mean it as aggressive, I meant it as two separate thoughts. Inviting on for tea is a Turkish custom and I was just noting it to give it context, since many people on this board would not know that you get tea when you go to buy a carpet. I think they give biscuit too, not just tea. Most do not do that here, they just take your money and no goodies ::fence:

Shopkeepers offer biscuit and tea in many Asian countries too. I think it's very classy.

 

[bourne]

I just quoted the Turkish Criminal Procedures Code.

Nobody's reading my posts?

Without me, this investigation will get nowhere.

Can I laugh at this without seeming like I'm mocking (which I'm not, won't do that to a fellow sleuther)?

 

[Yashim]

In every Turkish home I have personally been in, and its many. This was the expectation.

There are approximately 19 million households in Turkey.

Even if you visited 10 homes a day, it would have taken you 5200 years.

And that's not possible unless you are a vampire. And even if you were one, you wouldn't be able to visit homes during daytime. So that it would have taken you even much longer.

Sorry, something's just not adding up with your observation.

 

[SANDOVAL]

I am quite sure they do not have women's rest rooms in Turkish bars (unless a touristy one)...my point was were they supposedly doing it in the men's room?....no.
IMO Taylan might well be gay, so...no tryst in bar with SS.
Good Samaritan ...too much of a stretch, but why?

 

[alpmighty]

I appreciate all of the work you've put forth in explaining this and wasn't questioning any of that... more the fact that a first time traveler would have made the effort to get one or leave it behind when she needed it the most.

Someone would have likely tipped her off on how to to go about this, because even many seasoned travelers here have not considered obtaining a second phone while abroad.

Thank you and you are welcome.

Other sleuths hypothesized that she could have ran out of units and she probably didn't bother to buy more since she would be leaving Turkey.

Or perhaps she forgot to charge the Turkish phone.

It also looks like she didn't rely on it to meet Tarkan/Taylan as there was a conversationposted between them in which SS implied to him even if he wouldn't show up she'd go there. Is my memory betraying me about this?

 

[alpmighty]

oK alp-

now you've got some 'splainin' to do ......

Persian references reminded me of probably one of the most famous cold cases. An unidentified male body was found in Somerton Beach, Australia in 1948. It's referred to as Taman Shud case, a reference to the Persian note that was found in a copy of Rubaiyat among his belongings.

 

[ThinkHard]

There are approximately 19 million households in Turkey.

Even if you visited 10 homes a day, it would have taken you 5200 years.

And that's not possible unless you are a vampire. And even if you were one, you wouldn't be able to visit homes during daytime. So that it would have taken you even much longer.

Sorry, something's just not adding up with your observation.

I'm simply saying in the many Turkish homes I have been in, it was expected that you always remove your shoes. I didn't find this to be a big social change from when I lived there 4 years ago to when I lived there this past summer.

In the homes I was in, this was standard. Perhaps the people I associated with had different standards then the homes you frequent. But it does not make my experience incorrect.

Your previous comment that "this was true a year ago but not anymore" I find interesting, how exactly does a cultural norm just change country wide in the span of a year?

 

[alpmighty]

I think the local phone thing is probably fairly common for younger, more tech-savy travelers and maybe not so common for older travelers

*ducks to avoid incoming blows*

Depends on destination country's network standards and the device the traveller owns. Even a wealthy, non tech savy, older traveler might have to resort to get a second phone.

 

[ThinkHard]

I am quite sure they do not have women's rest rooms in Turkish bars (unless a touristy one)...my point was were they supposedly doing it in the men's room?....no.
IMO Taylan might well be gay, so...no tryst in bar with SS.
Good Samaritan ...too much of a stretch, but why?

Of course they have restrooms for females in Turkish bars!!!!

Seriously? Seriously? Are you that naive?

I'm quite sure you have never been to Turkey!

 

[Yashim]

Oh I didn't mean it as aggressive, I meant it as two separate thoughts. Inviting on for tea is a Turkish custom and I was just noting it to give it context, since many people on this board would not know that you get tea when you go to buy a carpet. I think they give biscuit too, not just tea. Most do not do that here, they just take your money and no goodies ::fence:

Don't take it personally.

They do that to me too.

They are offering tea like they have just discovered it, as if Alexander Fleming is offering some freshly discovered penicillin to a sick child.

And I don't even like tea. But the carpet guys don't accept no.

So, I tell them I just had tea. They say let's get you linden. You say it makes you sick. They say sick? One of them yells "Ali, get our brother some mint tea".

So, you take your gun out and shoot Ali, and think that he is dead. Then all of a sudden you see he's not there anymore, he's gone. You turn around and he's coming at you with apple tea.

One way or another I end up drinking some thing hot, which always burns my tongue.

Believe me it's not personal.

 

[alpmighty]

I am new, but have read all threads so far.Please excuse my jumping in.

Is it normal for Turkish men to wear earrings?, specifically just one in the left ear, as in photo of (supposedly) Taylan. Gayness is not illegal in Turkey but there is no official gay marriage or civil unions there yet; seems to be a point of contention among political parties regarding EU (referenced from Google wiki).

The bathroom sex thing is probably tabloid sleaze headline: Do Turkish bars have ladies rooms at all? Or just one room, or what?

I was wondering if the homeless group have a group structure and a head person, maybe an older man or woman.
I was wondering if that little 'cave' has a nickname, and is perhaps the 'nicest' spot there, out of the rain, etc.
In which case it could be the 'chief's den', as it were.
So, possibly SS had already met with an accident (car, train, falling off wall, being mugged or possibly jumping from a moving car)
and was brought to the cave and covered with a blanket, protected; even though she would obviously die from her injuries.
This is a 'GOOD SAMARITAN' theory.
This would explain why she had been in the cave 2 weeks but only 'dead for 10 days' story.

Yes, urban men commonly wear earrings . Your theory is very interesting.

 

[Stormy415]

I think LE says Taylan is not a suspect in order to throw off their suspicion of him.

The list is too long for why Taylan is my #1 suspect but here are a few:
1) Physical proximity to victim. He lives near where her body was found.
2) Intimacy shared with victim. He claims they had sex in the public toilet at a bar, but only after reports came out that LE found semen on her. Prior to that, he denied any sexual involvement.
3) Scheduled meeting at/near site where victim's dead body was found.
4) Last communication from victim was to Taylan about meeting that day she was murdered.
5) Taylan claimed he did not speak to victim because he was "asleep" and "missed her calls." Yet he knew where to meet her.
6) Taylan claimed he showed up at scheduled site but victim was not there. We have only his words that they never met up that day.
7) Some reports claimed Taylan went with a friend to the scheduled site that day. I think he's using this friend as an alibi.
8) Taylan doesn't try to contact Sarai after she fails to show up at scheduled site and even days after she went missing.
8) Taylan doesn't contact Turkish LE when Sarai has gone missing.
9) Taylan doesn't ask about Sarai -- e.g., did she return home safely? -- until Sarai's husband contacts him and asks him where is his wife.
9) Taylan quickly deletes his IG and email accounts after learning she's gone missing.
10) Taylan does not look for Sarai even though he knew LE was actively searching for her.
11) Taylan does not help Sarai's husband and Sarai's brother find Sarai in Istanbul.

Any way you look at it, Taylan acted in manners inconsistent with an innocent man.

I'm just back to reading new posts. As I posted earlier, I do consider Taylan a suspect.
bourne, I agree with everything you have stated and I believe you have mentioned just about everything that can make him a suspect.
Of course, we don't know about the DNA yet.

We have gone in circles these last few days, it's time for new information or let the LE make a statement. lease: