GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[Rolandred]

A typical Turkish national scavenger / homeless person can't have an Internet presence. They are too poor and too concerned with survival. Besides, such a person wouldn't be able to speak English at all.

So would he even know what an iPad/smarphone was and/or its value? Would the motive not be robbery then?
If they are so concerned with survival, why would they resort to criminal acts, knowing this could put them in the hands of LE. What if this guy, covered in mud, had tried to help her?

 

[alpmighty]

How do you know he is from eastern provinces? Is it just bc most street people hail from there? Who are the people from the eastern provinces and why are tlegitimate Istanbul? Do they emigrate for jobs?

Eastern parts of Turkey are underdeveloped, as the terrain there is too rough for extensive agricultural activity. Population there generally lack access to advanced education and population growth in the area is well above average. Traditionally, livestock breeding has been the meaningful source of legitimate income there. The inherent instability deriving from marxist PKK terrorism compels people born there to immigrate to industrialized and developed western parts with little to nothing. So yes, they immigrate and exclusively become the lowest cast of the society, at least for initial generation that immigrated. Lucky ones rise their status up and fit into lower middle class with time, as they make their fortunes. Not so lucky ones stay as the lowest caste. Some try luck in illegitimate enterprises.

It would be hard to imagine a scavenger / homeless originating from wealthy and developed Western Turkey.

 

[KivaSupporter]

Don't you mean IF they find the now-famous I-pad?

Those kind of shots might be tricky because of the lack of lighting inside a cave-like broken arch (which is what I think it is, actually). At least with an SLR you can manipulate the flash, exposure, and depth of field, which you really can't do with a cameraphone.

We've never seen a photograph of the entrance of this cave-like area have we? I'm curious to see what the surrounding ground looked like- full of irregular rubble difficult to walk over? someone's old firepit? flat and muddy?

http:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278051/Police-hunt-homeless-man-suspected-killing-New-York-mother-solo-trip-Turkey.html//

 

[Herat]

So would he even know what an iPad/smarphone was and/or its value? Would the motive not be robbery then?

I think any electronics would look "expensive" and well worth trying to sell to another person to fence it. I think these kind of things end up getting passed up the chain to someone who realizes what it is and recognizes that it might have belonged to the missing woman. At that point it may be tossed in the Bosphorus.

 

[Herat]

http:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278051/Police-hunt-homeless-man-suspected-killing-New-York-mother-solo-trip-Turkey.html//

Yes, we've seen this side a lot. What about the OTHER side of it?

 

[monkey222]

Wondering if Z asked any of the younger/tech savvy of the paper pickers posse or younger relative/kids to turn on SSs Skype? At this point Z may have known how wanted he would be by LE.

 

[alpmighty]

So would he even know what an iPad/smarphone was and/or its value? Would the motive not be robbery then?
If they are so concerned with survival, why would they resort to criminal acts, knowing this could put them in the hands of LE. What if this guy, covered in mud, had tried to help her?

He would. Such fancy gadgets are extensively marketed. Even a homeless person would associatevalue with them .

 

[necco]

Don't you mean IF they find the now-famous I-pad?

Those kind of shots might be tricky because of the lack of lighting inside a cave-like broken arch (which is what I think it is, actually). At least with an SLR you can manipulate the flash, exposure, and depth of field, which you really can't do with a cameraphone.

We've never seen a photograph of the entrance of this cave-like area have we? I'm curious to see what the surrounding ground looked like- full of irregular rubble difficult to walk over? someone's old firepit? flat and muddy?

The lack of lighting inside the arch could actually help with the composition of the photograph. It will emphasis the darkness and the shape of the arch contrasted against the brightly lit exterior (the framed scenery). I've taken pics like that with an iPhone that was 3 or 4 iterations ago. It's all about the style, composition and aesthetic you're seeking. And those trends change faster than some people change their socks.

 

[looking4answers]

What do you mean by dirt exactly?

Well, I fully admit I was babbling in my theory, not that it is obtuse so much as it is a bit of a stretch.

I was basically suggesting that "dirt" that you get from rolling around on dry earth, usually gives just a light dusting to your clothes, skin. If you had cuts, bruises, they more than likely could still be seen.Yet no one mentioned cuts, bruises or blood on him.

I wondered if he maybe washed himself in the bosphosrous or some water somewhere, and if it was muddy enough he could cover his cuts and bruises more.

I realized the second part would actually not be so easy to do, i.e. find a nearby water source with dirt (besdies the bosphorous), and also, might have been too much effort on his part.

I have really no idea, I am tired, and it wasn't fully thought out before I said it. I apologize.

 

[Rolandred]

http:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278051/Police-hunt-homeless-man-suspected-killing-New-York-mother-solo-trip-Turkey.html//

Actually, that hole was not a cave - in daylight you can see it is merely like a hole to the other side of the wall. The path they are walking up was apparently retracing her steps - they had done this with a sniffer dog beforehand. See video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7e4gImxwMI

 

[alpmighty]

I think any electronics would look "expensive" and well worth trying to sell to another person to fence it. I think these kind of things end up getting passed up the chain to someone who realizes what it is and recognizes that it might have belonged to the missing woman. At that point it may be tossed in the Bosphorus.

I know how stolen goods find their way back to the market. Z may or may not be aware of the devices ability to be traced. He would, almost certainly exchange them for cash with a flea market dealer specializing in electronics. That dealer though would know their traceability. An iPad is tamper proof, you can't change its serial numbers before resale to prevent traceability. So they are almost exclusively chopped up and except for the motherboard which contains identification serials, components are resold as spares.

Cell phone is a different story. Some variants of S3 device SS owned are suspectible to identification serials be spoofed. So that kind of dealer who might have initially bought the devices from whoever stole them may choose to change the serial numbers and sale the device wholly, or just chop it up and sell as spare parts, just as an iPad.

 

[alpmighty]

Wondering if Z asked any of the younger/tech savvy of the paper pickers posse or younger relative/kids to turn on SSs Skype? At this point Z may have known how wanted he would be by LE.

I find that highly implausible. Rather, he'd have exchanged them for quick cash with a specialized flea market dealer. Most likely after such an exchange, when that type of dealer was meddling with the device which had Skype installed. We don't know for sure whether a call was made from SS Skype account on 30th and 31st, it might simply be device being turned on and Skype installed signing in.

Such low life scum who initially steal them know better not to meddle with the devices. They would rather exchange them for quick cash with their contacts who specialize in them.

 

[Yashim]

Don't you mean IF they find the now-famous I-pad?

Those kind of shots might be tricky because of the lack of lighting inside a cave-like broken arch (which is what I think it is, actually). At least with an SLR you can manipulate the flash, exposure, and depth of field, which you really can't do with a cameraphone.

We've never seen a photograph of the entrance of this cave-like area have we? I'm curious to see what the surrounding ground looked like- full of irregular rubble difficult to walk over? someone's old firepit? flat and muddy?

Yes, that's right.

She could barely get the walls as frame. Otherwise, perhaps, it'd be dark. I don't know much about photography. Curious how it'd adjust.

And it should be filthy in there.

Once this is all over, I'll go there and take some pics.

 

[Herat]

The path they are walking up was apparently retracing her steps - they had done this with a sniffer dog beforehand. See video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7e4gImxwMI

I disagree:

They may have brought a sniffer dog up that path, but the Crime Scene Investigators in their white outfits and yellow boots are going up there because that's how everyone had to access the other side of the hole. Not necessarily because they believed that's the path she took.

I believe you can see the outline of an old brick-lined arch in the wall there, just like there are brick-lined arches all along that wall. This one had been walled up with concrete until someone punched a hole in it.

 

[Herat]

Such low life scum who initially steal them know better not to meddle with the devices. They would rather exchange them for quick cash with their contacts who specialize in them.

Yup. This is just something worth more money than the usual cans or bottles and they know that if they found it, it is likely lost or even stolen. Someone will come looking for it and they don't have any reason to keep it or activate it.

 

[Yashim]

Well, I fully admit I was babbling in my theory, not that it is obtuse so much as it is a bit of a stretch.

I was basically suggesting that "dirt" that you get from rolling around on dry earth, usually gives just a light dusting to your clothes, skin. If you had cuts, bruises, they more than likely could still be seen.Yet no one mentioned cuts, bruises or blood on him.

I wondered if he maybe washed himself in the bosphosrous or some water somewhere, and if it was muddy enough he could cover his cuts and bruises more.

I realized the second part would actually not be so easy to do, i.e. find a nearby water source with dirt (besdies the bosphorous), and also, might have been too much effort on his part.

I have really no idea, I am tired, and it wasn't fully thought out before I said it. I apologize.

No, you do make sense.

They said both. I happened to translate dirt as soil.

"üzeri toprak ve çamurlu halde görüldüğü"

So it's dirt (toprak) and mud (çamur).

lu is the suffix for with. çamurlu is with mud. so it's with mud and dirt

a better translation would be:

"seen covered in dirt and mud"

 

[NewYork625]

Actually, that hole was not a cave - in daylight you can see it is merely like a hole to the other side of the wall. The path they are walking up was apparently retracing her steps - they had done this with a sniffer dog beforehand. See video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7e4gImxwMI

I noticed a train passing nearby in the video. SS may have heard a train and gone down to that area to photograph the tracks, as she has photographed train tracks before, perhaps framing the tracks with the ruins, and then been assaulted.

 

[Yashim]

Actually, that hole was not a cave - in daylight you can see it is merely like a hole to the other side of the wall. The path they are walking up was apparently retracing her steps - they had done this with a sniffer dog beforehand. See video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7e4gImxwMI

That's right.

The term they originally used was "dehliz"

Which better corresponds to "gallery" or "passage"

 

[Rolandred]

I disagree:

They may have brought a sniffer dog up that path, but the Crime Scene Investigators in their white outfits and yellow boots are going up there because that's how everyone had to access the other side of the hole. Not necessarily because they believed that's the path she took.

I believe you can see the outline of an old brick-lined arch in the wall there, just like there are brick-lined arches all along that wall. This one had been walled up with concrete until someone punched a hole in it.

Okay - agreed. So how did they know how to find her there - I mean - they brought a sniffer dog - so they had good reason to know she may have been there (as she was) - do you think one of the homeless in the "community" said something? Or did LE just figure this out by themselves? No tip-offs?

 

[necco]

Yes, that's right.

She could barely get the walls as frame. Otherwise, perhaps, it'd be dark. I don't know much about photography. Curious how it'd adjust.

And it should be filthy in there.

Once this is all over, I'll go there and take some pics.

The light from the exterior would be sufficient to light what is outside the arch. So, dark arch, bright exterior framed in the arch. Also, her camera phone had a flash, so either way, she'd be fine.

Filthy doesn't mean a thing if she was into urban decay. You expect to get dirty. (My friends with kids are always amazed that I have wet wipes in my purse even though I have no kids. You get into some dirty, gross stuff shooting this sort of subject.) The jeans, the boots, the leather jacket, the hat... all could be fashion statements or all could be "safety" gear for shooting in rough and tumble places. That could be why she always seemed to be dressed the same.