GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[looking4answers]

She may not have felt that the iPad or phone was replaceable if it had all her photos on it and she had not backed them up on the cloud or elsewhere.

That is always a great fear of mine when travelling. That memory dares with irreplaceable trip photos will be lost or stolen.

Remember despite this "photo trip of a lifetime" she really posted very few photos from Ist/Amst/Mun. She must have shot hundreds and hundreds.

I somewhat thought the same.

This was a photo trip for her, and her first. It was very special and meaningful to her. The photos were gold to her.

She also seems like a mentally strong woman NYer or not. So IF this is what happened, as I agree we do not have enough proof yet. Then this may be enough reason to believe she did not initially or even after a little bit of physicality, stop trying to keep her electronics with all her photos. She probably just thought hey I can maybe hold on to them and run.

Yet lastly, even if she put up enough of a short lived struggle, and then realized hey it is not worth it, it may have been too late. The person she is struggling with either:

a. gets very angry and lashes out in rage
b. escalates it out of fear of it turning negative on this person with the authorities and wants to snuff her out for this
c. or maybe out of defense - not that she would harm this person, just a basic instinct that hey this woman is fighting back, and the stuggle becomes deadly

So maybe she did realize it wasn't worth it, but just too late after initially trying to fight to protect what was very important to her.

 

[alpmighty]

I'm with you. I don't by a lot of this recent media story for so many many reasons. It just doesn't make any sense to me. From where media received the info, to its accuracy, to this supposed perp himself.

We talked about not crucifying someone who might well be innocent. But when its an uneducated trash collector with a violent streak everyone seems ready to pounce and assume guilt.

Sorry until DNA proves his guilt I'm not biting.<Mod Snip>

Guilt cannot be established until the trial and I don't think anybody here yet declared him guilty.
However, he is the prime suspect according to LE and as reported by press. Press isn't making this one up. They've been fed.

 

[imamaze]

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[ThinkHard]

Well that's one of my points. We don't really have enough information about that.

We also don't have accurate information about the head trauma: Skull fracture(s)? Epidural hematoma? Number of wounds? Skin tears? etc etc etc.

We're all just spitballin' here.

Yes but you have stated several times that the only way her fingers could have been broken is by being against a flat surface and being smashed with a rock.

That is not true. And it's misleading to state something as fact when it is not a fact.

 

[ThinkHard]

Guilt cannot be established and I don't think anybody here yet declared him guilty.
However, he is the prime suspect according to LE and as reported by press. Press isn't making this one up. They've been fed.

Can you show me where this statement came straight from LE and not from media?

 

[NewYork625]

She may not have felt that the iPad or phone was replaceable if it had all her photos on it and she had not backed them up on the cloud or elsewhere.

That is always a great fear of mine when travelling. That memory dares with irreplaceable trip photos will be lost or stolen.

Remember despite this "photo trip of a lifetime" she really posted very few photos from Ist/Amst/Mun. She must have shot hundreds and hundreds.

Good point, but I believe the attacker's original intent was rape, and the robbery came after the assault. I believe there was a violent struggle and SS may have died before the rape could take place. The assailant then fled the scene, possibly with her bag containing the ipad and camera.

 

[alpmighty]

We talked about not crucifying someone who might well be innocent. But when its an uneducated trash collector with a violent streak everyone seems ready to pounce and assume guilt.

It is absolutely commendable what you are pointing out. But, me and Yashim are living in Turkey. I don't know about Yashim, but I'm a national. I know the streets quite well and I know the local social patterns and the extensive range of variants that can be observed. I'm reaching my third decade having observed them.

I wrote before this Z reports came up that it appeared as a random act of crime. Based on Z's behaviour, other scavengers already coming forward and saying he was acting weirdly and was suspicious on the presumed day of death of SS, he vanishing right afterwards are flag raisers to me.

Some of my fellow sleuths appear to me as havi been forming their patterns of rational thought on this case, based on their knowledge of their local, diversified patterns.

Remember how Tarkan A. was mentioned before in the press. Right after I've discovered his full identity (which I didn't disclose here out of respects for forum regulations) and what he does for a living, I knew he couldn't have been the perp. He's somebody who is always on clock and under surveillence.

Taylan K., on the other hand appeared to me as a complete scum bag. But somebody with his background, his age, his status would have to be extremely deranged or mentally challenged to premeditate a murder, or commit a crime of passion himself. Even so, I still keep him in mind, as I feel compelled to stay objective. For a middle class guy like him, a murder conviction, even a manslaughter conviction is end of life in Turkey. Sure, you won't get death penalty. But you'll do long, hard time, you'll be forever stagmatized and you'll forever be out of opportunities for life. You might as well opt for suicide.

Most desperate acts which appear as monstrous and immoral to others are often committed by those who have nothing to lose.

Taylan K. has too much to lose. Perhaps some might be thinking he might be deranged, but still so, there would have to be detectable patterns of behaviour on his life that'd be easy to pick up for LE.

All this led me to believe from the get go that this act was random. LE appearently thinks the same way, and they let accurate information be known to the press. They are homing in. They know after Z is apprehended, either they will get the perp or they will get information quite revealing out of him.

 

[alpmighty]

Good point, but I believe the attacker's original intent was rape, and the robbery came after the assault. I believe there was a violent struggle and SS may have died before the rape could take place. The assailant then fled the scene, possibly with her bag containing the ipad and camera.

I completely agree, my guess is the exactly the same.

 

[alpmighty]

Can you show me where this statement came straight from LE and not from media?

Initial report originated from Turkish daily HaberTürk's web site approximately 24 hours ago. It was penned by Mustafa &#350;ekero&#287;lu. The artice can be viewed here in Turkish.

Article directly cites LE as the source of information. Additionally, there's information, again cited from LE as how homicide branch homed in on Z as the prime suspect.

 

[alpmighty]

With all due respect, his running means nothing to me. He certainly wouldn't be the first innocent human (if he is, in fact, innocent) who ran away from a crime scene in a state of panic. An American woman has been murdered. Of course he would fear he'd be blamed for it. Due to culture biases, society at large- and I'm sure even many in LE- would rather be able to pin this on some homeless guy than someone who may be more affluent, more "successful". People don't like having to confront the monsters among us- who look, live, work and speak like us- but are capable of unspeakable acts. It's much easier to let our prejudices take over, and accuse the person we least relate to, the person who is (in our own minds) least like us.

I'm not saying he's innocent- but his running away (if he even was at that crime scene) far from proves it.

No offense taken, and I appreciate your highlight that running away doesn't make him automatically guilty. It just makes him a suspect. Your point is most certainly well taken among those here who consider him the prime suspect for a variety of reasons. Nobody here, as far as I've noticed, established him as guilty. We'll only know more when he's apprehended and interrogated. That'll be a good source of valuable and revealing information about the case.

 

[Herat]

alpmighty- Aren't you supposed to get some sleep?

We're not going to solve this tonight.

 

[belimom]

I completely agree, my guess is the exactly the same.

I'm leaning that way, too. But not there completely. It makes sense b/c none of the other scenarios really fit for me. Taylan/Tarken (whoever - not trying to start a debate - just been working hard and got behind on that particular topic) did not have enough emotional investment in whatever tryst he had with Sarai to trigger the rage necessary for this crime. While the drug theory is possible, I don't see it as being probable in this case.

If it really is a random attack for rape/robbery, it's hard as WSers to just let go of all the info we've learned, none of which ends up being all that relevant.

Whatever happened, I appears she fought hard. :cry:

 

[Yashim]

Yeah. I've twisted it around alot and I just can't get trauma from a train into this picture.

Can’t get a trauma from a train in the picture?

That’s because you’re not trying hard enough.

Here’s what happened:

The trashman attacks SS and kills her. He then hides her body in the cave.

Just then he hears a police siren, panics, runs towards the railroad tracks.

This is when a train hits him, tossing him up in the air.

Heavily injured, he falls on to the adjacent track.

But just before he touches the railroad, he gets hit by another train coming from the other direction.

Even more injured he goes up into the air again.

5 seconds later he lands face down right between the two tracks.

He tries to move, but the automatic railroad switch is already activated. And he gets his nose trapped between the rails.

Then two more trains come from opposite directions, dissecting his body into 213 pieces.

212 pieces spread across the entire field.

He instantly dies.

This is why LE is having a hard time locating him.

Once they find his nose between the rails, they will be able to literally put the pieces together.

 

[Herat]

And Yashim, you should be asleep, too.

You're starting to sleepsleuth.

 

[Kluver13]

This case received an extraordinary amount of media coverage and cannot go unsolved. LE will falsify a DNA match.

truth. the current scenario still doesn't completely add up in my estimation.

 

[NewYork625]

And Yashim, you should be asleep, too.

You're starting to sleepsleuth.

Herat, you and Yashim are too funny! :floorlaugh:

 

[alpmighty]

alpmighty- Aren't you supposed to get some sleep?

We're not going to solve this tonight.

There'll be an eternity for all of us to sleep. What is a few hours of it given up for good?

 

[alpmighty]

truth. the current scenario still doesn't completely add up in my estimation.

IMHO it does. But I still don't completely disregard case taking a complete swing when Z is apprehended. And if that might come to happen, there's a good chance that Z won't be caught alive. That twist coming to be is a long shot though. Time will tell.

My thought process moves from simple to complex, and I'm always skeptical. Nothing is improbable, but so far simple does it. If I'm proven to be wrong and the case takes a swing, then more complex probabilities will gain prevalence for me.

 

[Yellow]

I seriously doubt Turkish LE would want to frame this Z guy. Having the perp be a random person who attacks innocent mothers taking pictures has to be the worst thing for public relations.

No matter how unjustified it may be, if it turns out to be Z, Turkish tourism will take a hit bc all media will run with will be the headline "tourist gets murdered in broad daylight in downtown Istabul by random homeless person." Though that could happen anywhere, Combined w the fact that the most of the other media we get out of Turkey are mostly about bombings or earthquakes, from a tourism perspective, they would rather it have been an acquaintance or domestic matter.

 

[necco]

I'm beginning to think that Istanbul is the city that never sleeps, not NYC, if our Turkish contingent is any indication.

I hope they're not dragging another innocent person into this scenario (Z) but I don't think they'd intentionally scapegoat someone.

I think on some level, we have trouble reconciling the fact that Sarai's death appears now to be a random occurrence because of the havoc that random has on our purview. If a victim didn't do something wrong, then how can we assure our own psyches that we are safe? The truth is, we can't.