GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[alpmighty]

I'm beginning to think that Istanbul is the city that never sleeps, not NYC, if our Turkish contingent is any indication.

I hope they're not dragging another innocent person into this scenario (Z) but I don't think they'd intentionally scapegoat someone.

I think on some level, we have trouble reconciling the fact that Sarai's death appears now to be a random occurrence because of the havoc that random has on our purview. If a victim didn't do something wrong, then how can we assure our own psyches that we are safe? The truth is, we can't.

I couldn't have said it better.

Sleep is overrated though.

 

[alpmighty]

I seriously doubt Turkish LE would want to frame this Z guy. Having the perp be a random person who attacks innocent mothers taking pictures has to be the worst thing for public relations.

No matter how unjustified it may be, if it turns out to be Z, Turkish tourism will take a hit bc all media will run with will be the headline "tourist gets murdered in broad daylight in downtown Istabul by random homeless person." Though that could happen anywhere, Combined w the fact that the most of the other media we get out of Turkey are mostly about bombings or earthquakes, from a tourism perspective, they would rather it have been an acquaintance or domestic matter.

Exactly, from a PR standpoint Z turning out to be the perp is the worst outcome.

 

[necco]

Exactly, from a PR standpoint Z turning out to be the perp is the worst outcome.

Exactly.

 

[writer411]

With all due respect, his running means nothing to me. He certainly wouldn't be the first innocent human (if he is, in fact, innocent) who ran away from a crime scene in a state of panic. An American woman has been murdered. Of course he would fear he'd be blamed for it. Due to culture biases, society at large- and I'm sure even many in LE- would rather be able to pin this on some homeless guy than someone who may be more affluent, more "successful". People don't like having to confront the monsters among us- who look, live, work and speak like us- but are capable of unspeakable acts. It's much easier to let our prejudices take over, and accuse the person we least relate to, the person who is (in our own minds) least like us.

I'm not saying he's innocent- but his running away (if he even was at that crime scene) far from proves it.

I agree with you in the sense that this could be an attempt at a rush to judgment to close the case. Unless LE has one set of DNA and needs a match, this could be another red herring. I imagine that there's pressure to publicize an answer. I do believe the attack was random, but it'd rather the case remain officially unsolved than to see a murder pinned on a guy covered just 'cause he was covered in dirt.

 

[alpmighty]

I agree with you in the sense that this could be an attempt at a rush to judgment to close the case. Unless LE has one set of DNA and needs a match, this could be another red herring. I imagine that there's pressure to publicize an answer. I do believe the attack was random, but it'd rather the case remain officially unsolved than to see a murder pinned on a guy covered just 'cause he was covered in dirt.

Stakes are too high for a cover up.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Meri]

I'm with you. I don't by a lot of this recent media story for so many many reasons. It just doesn't make any sense to me. From where media received the info, to its accuracy, to this supposed perp himself.

We talked about not crucifying someone who might well be innocent. But when its an uneducated trash collector with a violent streak everyone seems ready to pounce and assume guilt.

Sorry until DNA proves his guilt I'm not biting.<Mod Snip>

A couple days ago someone posted an article and it listed the people who were suspects, something like that. They listed the suspects and then at the very end it said "and a homeless man." I was going to post this yesterday but never did, but I had such a creepy feeling when I read that. It's like the homeless part was just thrown in at the end and the first place my mind went was, they are going to frame some poor innocent homeless person because they don't want this kind of thing hanging over their head. I just felt it so strongly.

 

[Meri]

I seriously doubt Turkish LE would want to frame this Z guy. Having the perp be a random person who attacks innocent mothers taking pictures has to be the worst thing for public relations.

No matter how unjustified it may be, if it turns out to be Z, Turkish tourism will take a hit bc all media will run with will be the headline "tourist gets murdered in broad daylight in downtown Istabul by random homeless person." Though that could happen anywhere, Combined w the fact that the most of the other media we get out of Turkey are mostly about bombings or earthquakes, from a tourism perspective, they would rather it have been an acquaintance or domestic matter.

That makes very good sense.

 

[MommyStephV]

This doesn't address any jewelry other than her rings - if she was in fact wearing rings - but they've said her fingers were broken. If the finger(s) the ring(s) was on, was one of the broken fingers, is it possible it was so deformed that it wouldn't have been possible to slide the ring off her finger to take? At that point, how else other than breaking the ring, would it have been possible for the perp - or anyone for that matter - to take them.

Again, this doesn't address the chain wrapped 3 times around her wrist (if I remember correctly) or any other jewelry that she may or may not been wearing...

 

[english]

Exactly, from a PR standpoint Z turning out to be the perp is the worst outcome.

If he is the perp and turns out to be responsible for the other unsolved attacks in the area it could be good from a PR standpoint.

 

[bourne]

Media?

Come on, he's definitely a comedian. He moonlights as an economist.

 

[bourne]

I somewhat thought the same.

This was a photo trip for her, and her first. It was very special and meaningful to her. The photos were gold to her.

She also seems like a mentally strong woman NYer or not. So IF this is what happened, as I agree we do not have enough proof yet. Then this may be enough reason to believe she did not initially or even after a little bit of physicality, stop trying to keep her electronics with all her photos. She probably just thought hey I can maybe hold on to them and run.

Yet lastly, even if she put up enough of a short lived struggle, and then realized hey it is not worth it, it may have been too late. The person she is struggling with either:

a. gets very angry and lashes out in rage
b. escalates it out of fear of it turning negative on this person with the authorities and wants to snuff her out for this
c. or maybe out of defense - not that she would harm this person, just a basic instinct that hey this woman is fighting back, and the stuggle becomes deadly

So maybe she did realize it wasn't worth it, but just too late after initially trying to fight to protect what was very important to her.

I agree, the Ipad and cellphone full of photos were her treasures. No way no how was she going to part with them. She likely put up a hard struggle and the perp did what your combined abc's say.

I don't think Sarai thought rationally nor did she have time to contemplate the consequences of not letting go of her treasures during an unexpected crime.

 

[Herat]

This doesn't address any jewelry other than her rings - if she was in fact wearing rings - but they've said her fingers were broken. If the finger(s) the ring(s) was on, was one of the broken fingers, is it possible it was so deformed that it wouldn't have been possible to slide the ring off her finger to take? At that point, how else other than breaking the ring, would it have been possible for the perp - or anyone for that matter - to take them.

Again, this doesn't address the chain wrapped 3 times around her wrist (if I remember correctly) or any other jewelry that she may or may not been wearing...

Her NYC photos show the coiled rose ring on her right index finger. I am not sure, but I thought it was the right 3 middle fingers that were reported broken.

There are lots of bracelets that coil around the wrist. There is also a fashion for wearing chains wrapped around one's wrist as a bracelet, rather than a necklace. I was thinking this would be on her left wrist, as a presumably right-handed person. She was also reported to be wearing earrings.

We've never seen photos of the jewelry found. We have no validated report.

We (I) am just speculating here.:twocents:

 

[bourne]

With all due respect, his running means nothing to me. He certainly wouldn't be the first innocent human (if he is, in fact, innocent) who ran away from a crime scene in a state of panic. An American woman has been murdered. Of course he would fear he'd be blamed for it. Due to culture biases, society at large- and I'm sure even many in LE- would rather be able to pin this on some homeless guy than someone who may be more affluent, more "successful". People don't like having to confront the monsters among us- who look, live, work and speak like us- but are capable of unspeakable acts. It's much easier to let our prejudices take over, and accuse the person we least relate to, the person who is (in our own minds) least like us.

I'm not saying he's innocent- but his running away (if he even was at that crime scene) far from proves it.

I'm glad you're sticking to your guns. It still can be Taylan *raise fists* -- if DNA of the homeless person is planted under Sarai's fingernails.

Seriously, my hubby and I disagree right now. He thinks it can't be the homeless dude. He thinks that's too convenient and simple -- sort of like let's throw the homeless man under the bus and quickly tie up this case. I'm on the fence now. But shhh, don't tell anyone. I still secretly hope it's that jerk Taylan.

 

[bourne]

I'm leaning that way, too. But not there completely. It makes sense b/c none of the other scenarios really fit for me. Taylan/Tarken (whoever - not trying to start a debate - just been working hard and got behind on that particular topic) did not have enough emotional investment in whatever tryst he had with Sarai to trigger the rage necessary for this crime. While the drug theory is possible, I don't see it as being probable in this case.

If it really is a random attack for rape/robbery, it's hard as WSers to just let go of all the info we've learned, none of which ends up being all that relevant.

Whatever happened, I appears she fought hard. :cry:

Actually I have no problems relinquishing my theory that the perp was Taylan. There are very few suspects that work here. Either it was Taylan or someone Sarai knew in Istanbul, or it was a random stranger.

I don't think the reason for skepticism about this homeless being Sarai's killer is that it's hard for some WSers to let go of their theories, but that there is no absolute proof given for why this homeless garbage scavenger is the #1 prime suspect except for the fact that the media (and according to another poster, LE) are publishing that he is.

You have to admit it's mighty convenient that a homeless man is pushed to the forefront of this case so suddenly when a day earlier they said none of the DNA matched any of the 22 POIs.

I personally don't think LE is scapegoating Z but I can see why some people may think so. For one, a homeless man would have little resources to avail himself of a good defense lawyer whereas someone of prominence, status and wealth like Taylan can hire powerful legal counsel that could destroy LE's case and ruin their case.

Already we know Taylan had been given special treatment by LE. He was allowed to be interviewed at a location of his choice outside of a police station whereas according to protocol, suspects are generally interrogated inside the precinct.

I think it's the kid-gloves special treatment afforded privileged people like Taylan and the need for political expediency due to this high profile, internationally known case that create the possibility of impropriety in LE's conduct. It is this prejudice within human nature whereby we tend to discount people as true suspects who look/act like us, or who can afford good lawyers or who have power and prestige in our society that paves the way for people to doubt the authenticity of the evidence against a homeless man whose disappearance could well be explained by innocuous, unrelated reasons. E.g., maybe the homeless scavenger tripped and fell while collecting garbage in another part of the city and was unable to hobble back to the ruins with his broken leg...

 

[necco]

Her NYC photos show the coiled rose ring on her right index finger. I am not sure, but I thought it was the right 3 middle fingers that were reported broken.

There are lots of bracelets that coil around the wrist. There is also a fashion for wearing chains wrapped around one's wrist as a bracelet, rather than a necklace. I was thinking this would be on her left wrist, as a presumably right-handed person. She was also reported to be wearing earrings.

We've never seen photos of the jewelry found. We have no validated report.

We (I) am just speculating here.:twocents:

A ring as big as the coiled rose one, if it is made with the metal I think it is (nu gold or red brass) would actually make it easier for her fingers to be broken. Brass formulations have a Mohs hardness score of 3-4 as opposite to silver and gold are 2.5-3. The way that ring was formed would also work harden it considerably. Between the size and the strength of the metal, if her hand was squeezed, the ring could easily contribute to her broken fingers.

*wow. I'm a jewelry geek. Y'all probably didn't need that much information. I'll just be over here.*

 

[KuriousKev]

I seriously doubt Turkish LE would want to frame this Z guy. Having the perp be a random person who attacks innocent mothers taking pictures has to be the worst thing for public relations.

No matter how unjustified it may be, if it turns out to be Z, Turkish tourism will take a hit bc all media will run with will be the headline "tourist gets murdered in broad daylight in downtown Istabul by random homeless person." Though that could happen anywhere, Combined w the fact that the most of the other media we get out of Turkey are mostly about bombings or earthquakes, from a tourism perspective, they would rather it have been an acquaintance or domestic matter.

Exactly, from a PR standpoint Z turning out to be the perp is the worst outcome.

Even worse PR to have a murderer of tourist still running free in the city and not captured. Either way it's a lose lose situation for them so why not choose the lesser of both evils? get a homeless trash collector murderer, who acted alone, off the streets and let's hope we can get things back to normal QUICKLY.

They can't associate SS's murder to any illegal activity that she may have been involved in or any personal relations so what other options do they have? A murderer must be captured at all costs.

 

[NewYork625]

An Australian tourist was dragged into an alley in Midtown Manhattan this past weekend and raped.

I personally don't think SS's story is going to have any appreciable affect on tourism between the US and Turkey, whatever the outcome. It's not a huge story here, and as odd as this sounds, I imagine most people who are familiar with the story blame what happened more on the fact that SS was off the beaten path than on whoever killed her. There are deviants committing crimes everywhere.

 

[necco]

An open letter to Sarai's family,
If you read this far, I'd like to apologize for what we may have speculated about. In the end, we simply wanted justice for Sarai, and at times, we may have lost sight of the fact that you may read this some day. Sarai was a lot of things, a wife, a daughter, a mother, a Christian, a photographer, a friend and I'm sure many more things. Everything I've read about her makes me think she was a whimsical and wonderful woman. Everything I've read has made me think that she would have come home from Turkey an even better human being, with broader horizons and a better sense of self. While we here cannot truly understand what you are feeling, know that on some level, we all grieve with you. In life, your mother touched your lives. In death, she made us examine our limitations, our prejudices and our own dreams. Boys, may you find peace and may you have your mother's sense of adventure. The world is truly a wonderful place and the good outweighs the bad by a long shot.
-Necco

 

[Herat]

I personally don't think SS's story is going to have any appreciable affect on tourism between the US and Turkey, whatever the outcome.

You're probably right.

Judging from some of the comments I've seen made to news stories about the incident, a substantial portion of the US population seems to think Turkey is about as western as Yemen and about as attractive to visit. :sigh:

 

[necco]

You're probably right.

Judging from some of the comments I've seen made to news stories about the incident, a substantial portion of the US population seems to think Turkey is about as western as Yemen and about as attractive to visit. :sigh:

They're crazy. I want to go there. And when I do, I suspect I'll spend at least 1/2 a day running back and forth over the bridge going "I'm in Asia!" *scamper* "I'm in Europe" *repeat*