GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[NewYork625]

Everybody knows Yemen is an 8th world country located on the continent of Islam. Extremely unsafe. Almost as bad as Turkey, even, but not quite. :fence:

:floorlaugh:

 

[necco]

Everybody knows Yemen is an 8th world country located on the continent of Islam. Extremely unsafe. Almost as bad as Turkey, even, but not quite. :fence:

Americans know Yemen is where Chandler went to escape Janice.

 

[Yellow]

I don't think the point was to broadstroke Ivy Leagues. I think the point is simply that a lot of people have misconceptions about Turkey, and some of those people are not uneducated people.

Yes, the point of the survey was to see if Americas problem w geography extends to some of the more educated people, and they found it does, at least according to those surveys. Perhaps it is a reflection of the US education system, or HS system, bc I think it was taken of freshman, before they got their college education. USA education just does not do a great job w teaching geography.

So yes I think it would be safe to say that many if not most Americans would not be able to identify Turkey on a map, IMO. At least not without some help.

 

[Yashim]

Laz people are an ethnic group, but all or most of them would call themselves Turks or Turks with Laz descent.

Most of them have a hawk-like nose. A common genetic signature. (Which is not at all rare in the Middle East anyway.)

Blond hair and blue eyes are quite common, too.

There are really known as nice people. There aren't even (AFAIK) any negative stereotypes about them. IMO, they are very down-to-earth and easygoing people.

They have a great sense of humor. They don't even mind any jokes made about them, e.g. "Six Lazs played Russian roulette and all of them died".

They themselves like telling them.

Really fun people to hang out with. A true ethnic color of Turkey.



Side note:

The term Turk/Turkish is not used to denote any specific ethnic group. Otherwise, all Turks would be questioned as to why they don't look like their ancestors in Central Asia.

So the usage "Turkish" is similar to the usage of "American". And the usage of "Laz" (or Kurdish, etc.) would be similar to the usage of the term "Hispanic".

At least in Turkey. (Not that everybody is totally content with this.)

 

[Herat]

If you look at mentions of Turkey in the recent news (other than SS), it's all about Syria, and Syria, and Syria, and the Kurds and Iraq

Syria, is of course, in the MidEast which means it is essentially in Saudi Arabia which is really the same as Afghanistan and Pakistan and the terror stronghold of Yemen, and of course Somalia.

No one seems to remember the Orient Express, or that Turkey has been part of NATO for 60 years, and a signator to the Geneva Convention for that long, or that is has a strictly secular government, or or or.

Which reminds me to send out my sincere appreciation to posters outside the US that are giving really amazing input and clearly spending many hours on this case providing essential insights, translations, explanations of cultural references. The international interest on this board alone is one of the reasons I keep coming back.

Although I do encourage certain posters to get enough sleep and keep conversing with their friends and family.......

 

[Herat]

I love it that one group of people of Laz origin came from a region named.....wait for it.....Lazistan.

I love geography trivia.

That and the intense interest I have developed in the Istanbul garbage and recycling system must be mystifing some of the internet access police at my work.

 

[lavy]

Does the following say something about a bloodstained blanket?

"Sarai cinayetinde bulunan battaniyenin de Laz Ziya'ya ait olduğu tespit edilmişti."

It says: Its been the blanket found at the crime scene belongs to Laz Ziya.

There was an article yesterday saying that they found several DNA's on the blanket. It was just before the news about Laz Ziya was published so I think it wasn't everywhere. I'll translate it if I can find it.

 

[Yellow]

It says: Its been the blanket found at the crime scene belongs to Laz Ziya.

There was an article yesterday saying that they found several DNA's on the blanket. It was just before the news about Laz Ziya was published so I think it wasn't everywhere. I'll translate it if I can find it.

I wonder if DNA from that blanket, which they presume is Z, matches DNA on SS body? Maybe that is why they seem so confident?

 

[CMac2]

It says: Its been the blanket found at the crime scene belongs to Laz Ziya.

There was an article yesterday saying that they found several DNA's on the blanket. It was just before the news about Laz Ziya was published so I think it wasn't everywhere. I'll translate it if I can find it.

Is that the reason for LE's attempts to locate Ziya? Because it was his blanket? It's quite possible that as a homeless man, he'd used the blanket before. The question would be how it made it over the top of SS' body. If it's a blanket that's been at the scene for some time (as evidence seems to indicate, because there are multiple DNA profiles on it), then nothing really points to Ziya as the perpetrator of this crime. Just means someone found a homeless guy's blanket and used it to cover a woman's body.

Hopefully they're searching for the other people whose DNA is on that blanket with equal zeal.

Because his DNA is on the blanket, he's worthy of locating and questioning, for sure. LE obviously needs to determine whether or not to pursue him further, or eliminate him. To call him a suspect, however, seems cruelly premature.

I doubt Ziya can afford an attorney to hold a press conference on his behalf, reassuring the public at large that because his client comes from a good family and has a university education, he couldn't possibly have done this.

**Cough**

ETA: And actually, re-reading lavy's translation, they aren't even saying Ziya's DNA is on the blanket at all. They're saying the DNA of several persons is on the blanket. The blanket simply belongs to Ziya. None of this makes sense, unless LE has something earth shattering that we don't know about yet.

 

[lavy]

Is that the reason for LE's attempts to locate Ziya? Because it was his blanket? It's quite possible that as a homeless man, he'd used the blanket before. The question would be how it made it over the top of SS' body. If it's a blanket that's been at the scene for some time (as evidence seems to indicate, because there are multiple DNA profiles on it), then nothing really points to Ziya as the perpetrator of this crime. Just means someone found a homeless guy's blanket and used it to cover a woman's body.

Hopefully they're searching for the other people whose DNA is on that blanket with equal zeal.

Because his DNA is on the blanket, he's worthy of locating and questioning, for sure. LE obviously needs to determine whether or not to pursue him further, or eliminate him. To call him a suspect, however, seems cruelly premature.

I doubt Ziya can afford an attorney to hold a press conference on his behalf, reassuring the public at large that because his client comes from a good family and has a university education, he couldn't possibly have done this.

**Cough**

I think they are searching the others. Actually I read they are.

I think the reason that he became the main suspect is that he disappeared since that week and his friends saw him covered in mud.

Aha...There are news...Coming soon.

 

[Yashim]

I wouldn't say it's prejudicial, and believe there is some truth there. I would go so far as to say that I think there are Americans who don't know Turkey is an ally, and also couldn't pick Turkey out on a map. Just being honest... :truce:

I actually think it's easy to locate Turkey, between Europe and Asia, right in the center of the "Old World". And it looks like a deep-sea water creature.

But anyway, don't be harsh on yourself. (I mean on the average American)

You have your own continent to yourself. So Americans don't know the capital of Moldova. SO what? I don't either. How many European know the capital of Florida, California, New York, Illinos, or any other state that they keep seeing in the movies.

How many Europeans know that Christmas and Thanskgiving are not the same thing. (BTW they aren't, right?)

People should know what they need. I would criticize a tourist coming to Turkey without having a clue about the country, but not everyone.

And it's partially Turkey's fault that they don't know.

 

[Yashim]

I actually agree with the statement Herat made.

It does seem like quite a few Americans- yes, even a substantial number- don't realize Turkey is not the Middle East.

......

It's been one of the more infuriating aspects of this case, honestly.

Science or any kind of knowledge is collected, stored and passed on to future generations by classification, categorization.

So people tend to assign a class/category for every bit of info.

That's the natural tendency. Not always for Turkey.

Turkey is politically European. No doubt about that. Check the international organizations.

And it was not Turks that called this land Turkey, it was the West. It was the Western Europe that called Turkey (Ottoman Empire) the sick man of "Europe", and not sick man of "the Middle East."

Culturally, neither European or Middle Eastern. Or maybe both. Anatolia (Asia Minor) has a culture of its own. It has a race of its own. Not that there is one race. But you won't be able to match some of the DNA (i.e. haploids) to any homogenous region (never migrated) in the World.

Perhaps, average Turk could even have Celtic blood in him. You'd see these people in Central Turkey with red hair. And they are Turkish. But we know that some celtic tribes move into (Turkey) Anatolia circa 300 BC and established a state, Galatia. The name their capital Ancyra, which today is Ankara, the capital of Turkey. What happened to those Gauls? They didn't evaporate. They are among us.

Turkey is quite mixed in that sense. In Turkey, in color-eyed population, green eyes are majority, that happens where races are mixed. That's why there was never a racial categorization, especially one based on skin color.

Everyone in the US can trace their roots on the continent, where their parents or grandparents are from.

But think of the US in year 3013. Who can trace it?

That's what Turkey is like.

Doesn't fit into any conventional categorization.

I don't blame anyone for miscategorization because I don't think there is any right way to do it.

Genetic history of the Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CMac2]

I don't blame anyone for miscategorization because I don't think there is any right way to do it.

I don't blame people for not knowing all about Turkey- I know next to nothing about the country. I'm happy this case has taught me a whole lot of information about a country I previously knew little about.

What I won't make excuses for is people who allow their own small minds, prejudice and bias to color an entire area of the world an ugly color for no other reason than fear of that which they do not understand. I hope that makes sense.

 

[english]

An article for those wondering if her shoes/boots had been found :

http://english.sabah.com.tr/national/2013/02/14/sierras-murder-to-be-solved-by-the-mud-on-her-boots

And another article with information/mis-information :

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...ation.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41152&NewsCatID=341

 

[lavy]

NEWS

It is now certain that SS was murdered in another cave which is 100m away from the one she was found.
Luminol investigation shows that she has been carried from that cave to the one she was found in. It had blood stains and also the rock with the blood on it (the one has been considered as the crime weapon)

Up to now police took blood samples from 30 usual suspects. All 30 said they haven't seen her (I think this 30 doesn't include taylan, airbnb guy etc)
Also they are looking to 10 more people who used to live around the walls but haven't seen since before or after the case. Police is searching this people in their addresses which are in other cities.

Laz ziya who was been referred as the primary suspect by press is only one of the usual suspects and only searched to give blood sample.

The people who have been questioned before gave some names and they are searching for the names given too. Among these there are drug and thinner addicts and people with criminal records .

A high level LE member said "Like Ziya there are other people who stayed in the walls from time to time. Our aim to question them and get their blood samples and compared them to dna samples found on SS. There is no primary suspect now."

Criminal investigation on the stuff found in the area is still continued.
LE is considering that SS went in the walls to take pics and met the peep there.


LINK

 

[CMac2]

NEWS

It is now certain that SS was murdered in another cave which is 100m away from the one she was found.
Luminol investigation shows that she has been carried from that cave to the one she was found in. It had blood stains and also the rock with the blood on it (the one has been considered as the crime weapon)

Up to now police took blood samples from 30 usual suspects. All 30 said they haven't seen her (I think this 30 doesn't include taylan, airbnb guy etc)
Also they are looking to 10 more people who used to live around the walls but haven't seen since before or after the case. Police is searching this people in their addresses which are in other cities.

Laz ziya who was been referred as the primary suspect by press is only one of the usual suspects and only searched to give blood sample.

The people who have been questioned before gave some names and they are searching for the names given too. Among these there are drug and thinner addicts and people with criminal records .

A high level LE member said "Like Ziya there are other people who stayed in the walls from time to time. Our aim to question them and get their blood samples and compared them to dna samples found on SS. There is no primary suspect now."

Criminal investigation on the stuff found in the area is still continued.
LE is considering that SS went in the walls to take pics and met the peep there.


LINK

This makes the most logical sense of anything we've read so far, IMO. So Ziya is not the prime suspect- he's just one of several people known to frequent the area that they need to find, question and take a blood sample from. That makes sense.

So the cave she was killed in is about what, 330 ft ( for us Americans :blushing: ) from where she was ultimately found? I wonder if the cave she was killed in is subject to more traffic than the place they moved her to. Maybe she would have been found faster had she not been moved. Who knows.

Does a homeless druggie/homeless trash randomly collector kill a woman and then bother with moving her body? I just don't see it, but who knows.

 

[Herat]

Zowie. These are certainly important developments.

Can anyone familiar with the are pinpoint where 100m (328ft for our metric-challenged USAnians) from the "cave" would be? My guess is that it is actually in the better-preserved part of the wall.

I don't see how multiple of the denizens of this region didn't know she had been attacked and at least several didn't know she had been murdered and moved.

Are they still looking at the 4 other "homed" people who met SS on the internet?

 

[english]

This makes the most logical sense of anything we've read so far, IMO. So Ziya is not the prime suspect- he's just one of several people known to frequent the area that they need to find, question and take a blood sample from. That makes sense.

So the cave she was killed in is about what, 330 ft ( for us Americans :blushing: ) from where she was ultimately found? I wonder if the cave she was killed in is subject to more traffic than the place they moved her to. Maybe she would have been found faster had she not been moved. Who knows.

Does a homeless druggie/homeless trash randomly collector kill a woman and then bother with moving her body? I just don't see it, but who knows.

According to some Turkish news sources, Ziya T got money sent to him from his brother and bought a bus ticket to return to his home town under an assumed name. He has since left his home town. Apparently, the brother was able to give police material for a dna sample to be taken. Some news agencies have a photo of Ziya. (I don't think the brother was aware of any wrong-doing until the police arrived.) Maybe it has been insinuated to the press that Z is number one suspect or maybe the press have decided that as he is the missing itinerant they have the most info on.

 

[StCirq]

"Times have changed. “More Americans have passports now than ever before,” says Ken Chavez, spokesperson for the Bureau of Consular Affairs at the US State Department. Over one-third of the population to be exact, or nearly 110 million out of 313 million Americans."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbender/2012/01/30/record-number-of-americans-now-hold-passports/

That's most likely including the passports now issued for folks who just want to go to the Bahamas and the Caribbean.

 

[bet2173]

Does a homeless druggie/homeless trash randomly collector kill a woman and then bother with moving her body? I just don't see it, but who knows.

Hi Cmac2,

Actually as an Istanbulite I always believed that the homeless guys (we don't have many on the streets, just around places like these caves) and the trash collectors (those are a lot, we have them like for every district) were harmless. Trash collectors are like the illegal backbones of the recycling here, since we don't have an established system. Thanks to them a lot of used paper and bottles are returned back to either the factories that produce those or the intermediary people. I somehow feel respect to what they do and do not believe in the Ziya story.

Another thing is from what I've read a few days ago, an insider from LE told the press that they are sharing only 5% of the information with the public, so Ziya can be a side story to distract the public (and the real murderer) from the real murderer.