GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[Lostinabook]

http://www.panoramio.com/m/photo/35880596

Galata bridge looking to eminonu

http://www.panoramio.com/m/photo/35880596

Galata bridge at end eminonu

Both of these links take me back to the mall views.

 

[Lostinabook]

Has anyone found ANY information on woman pulled out of the Bosphorus, who seemed to be dressed similarly to Sarai in the last published video images? And didn't they say she appeared to have been in the water for only a day or so (this would obviously have to be based on the condition of the body)? It couldn't, then, be the same woman who jumped off the bridge a few weeks ago.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

yeah, yashim is back!! nice to see you! please stay for a while.

 

[Yashim]

Thanks I appreciate the effort to explain it.

Though FYI those distinctive big square pattern is in a lt of places in Istanbul, particularly in the courtyard all the way around Yeni Cami, that's the mosque you see right at the end of the Galata bridge on the eminonu side.
Which is why my first thought is that it looks like the street that runs along behind Yeni Cami.

Though you could very well be right. I can't get a real good idea of what is to the periphery in that image, and I don't think I'm able to zoom out.

I also think so. Because the street surveillance camera (80-84) is just next to the road. She get between the camera and the road. However, there is the Arpacilar Street that allows an exit from the main Avenue. That's where she seems to be.

However, Arpacilar, as far as I recall, is a one lane street. In the picture, I see two vehicles side by side. May be they just squeezed in one lane.

 

[Sandstorm]

Yashim quote: The face was unrecognizable. Hit repeatedly with a rock.

IMO, the earrings were knocked off of Sarai and/or ripped out of her ears during the struggle for her life.

If, in fact, Sarai was beaten to an unrecognizable state and her skull was cracked as the papers report, then rest assured that during this horrific beating anything that was able to come lose DID, and that includes flesh, hair, blood, bone, teeth, and most certainly earrings.

There is no telling what an awful state poor Sarai was in when found by the police.

IMO, since the murderer did not remove any of her other jewelry that would have been easier to remove, then he certainly did not take off her earrings and lay them on the ground beside her.

The murderer was busy holding her down with one hand and bludgeoning Sarai to death with the other hand as she fought for her life.

It appears from some of the videos which show a blood covered rock that her head was possibly forced upon a larger rock and then held down and beaten from above by a hand held rock; and/or the murderer bounced her head on and off of the larger rock.

When a human being is beaten to death with a rock by a psychopath whose goal is to k i l l, removing earrings never even crosses his mind.

 

[alabaster]

Greetings all,

Please excuse me for taking a bit of space here. I have been following this thread for some time. I was a first-time visitor to Istanbul this January myself. A father on a rare solo trip (which nobody made a fuss about …). I also actually took that walk along the walls by the sea, on Jan 22, only a day after Sarai presumably died and was hidden there.

Important things first: I don't remember making any observations that day that would give us any new hard clues. But I can say from my experience it doesn't seem unlikely to me that Sarai could have come, just from impulse, to take a last-day walk along that road by daylight, dressed for a sunny day, maybe for a friend who then hadn't made it.

I hope one day we'll get to know what happened, to honor Sarai's youthful spirit, to hopefully help her family and friends keep her memory alive, and for other travellers' sake.

When I took that walk I had landed on Kennedy Cadd. just by chance. I came out from Gülhane Park and, with no plans made, simply got curious to see how that road would bend around to seaside Sultanahmet (where I vaguely hoped to find some interesting musician tavernas for later visits). It was already getting dark, and after a time I noticed the wall side of the road was getting grimier. I stayed on the water side for the most part and never left the sidewalk. I was not afraid but kept walking, avoided eye contact with people on my way and stayed watchful. It's a part of travelling alone in a strange place. Maybe Sarai did all that and got attacked nevertheless. Maybe she had a careless moment at a tragically wrong time.

We all don't really know for sure what Sarai wanted on her trip and how she acted. Like me, she seemed to like wandering around on impulse, mingling with artists and see colorful places. The way I see her motivations (partly inferred from my own) I can accept her known activities more or less as understandable without having to presume a drug or sex scam or elaborate secret affairs (although all that remains possible). That includes the strange travel arrangements (mine raised eyebrows, too) and her last-day trip to the walls.

From what we know, she was ready (knowingly or not) to take greater risks than I would. I found street life in Istanbul friendly and safe, if not free of strain and conflict, the atmosphere less violent than in other cities. But meeting strangers alone is dangerous everywhere. And it's vital (for women more so, unfortunately) to keep eyes and ears alert and know whom and what to avoid. But she was discovering a new, adventurous self, on a budget, she wanted IG friends to meet her. She didn't post many new photos, but might have saved many for extensive editing (the clean look of some of her most applauded pictures suggests that to me).

The single one thing I find hard to imagine, having seen the walls and the environment, is how there could have been a fierce, deadly struggle without people taking notice. I think I saw homeless locals or rambling strangers every 30 meters or so. Is the murder site that shielded from road and adjoining caves? Anything I've missed upthread about the locals' actions that day or later? If they heard something but were unable or unwilling to interfere, how could they not even talk about it so word would have reached LE sooner? If they knew there was a body, how could they stay and wait, only to leave when LE found it?

On my walk that day, I remember wondering why some of the more elaborately made fireplaces between the waterside riffraff looked so deserted. I remember the gloomy look on the faces of an older homeless guy and a very young one. I thought it was a trait of their gloomy life. Or had they seen something? Where are they now?

 

[Yashim]

I have to admit there were some outlandish theories being spread around over there. How about this for outlandish! A serial rapist Turkish police officer who attacks women while off-duty.

Maybe the off-duty Turkish police officer was dressed in an NYPD uniform. She might have felt safe around him.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yashim quote: The face was unrecognizable. Hit repeatedly with a rock.

IMO, the earrings were knocked off of Sarai and/or ripped out of her ears during the struggle for her life.

If, in fact, Sarai was beaten to an unrecognizable state and her skull was cracked as the papers report, then rest assured that during this horrific beating anything that was able to come lose DID, and that includes flesh, hair, blood, bone, teeth, and most certainly earrings.

There is no telling what an awful state poor Sarai was in when found by the police.

IMO, since the murderer did not remove any of her other jewelry that would have been easier to remove, then he certainly did not take off her earrings and lay them on the ground beside her.

The murderer was busy holding her down with one hand and bludgeoning Sarai to death with the other hand as she fought for her life.

It appears from some of the videos which show a blood covered rock that her head was possibly forced upon a larger rock and then held down and beaten from above by a hand held rock; and/or the murderer bounced her head on and off of the larger rock.

When a human being is beaten to death with a rock by a psychopath whose goal is to k i l l, removing earrings never even crosses his mind.

Ok I follow....

Except weren't the earrings found in the same vicinity her body was found? I believe even buried into the dirt pretty much under her body?

And wasnt she beaten in another cave...the dragged to this second cave where both she and her earrings were found?

So if the earring were beaten off her head in a struggle, the wouldn't the have fallen to the ground and be forgotten where she was beaten?

How did the earrings that fell off in the struggle make it to the cave with her body, unless someone put them there?

 

[ThinkHard]

Both of these links take me back to the mall views.

Those are both the mall, as in Istinye park...illustrated to show how most people dress in Istanbul.

Here let me try the Galata links again to see if they work.

http://www.123rf.com/photo_13203012...n-horn-the-galata-bridge-istanbul-turkey.html


http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/p/m/1e5423/

 

[Yashim]

Yashim quote: The face was unrecognizable. Hit repeatedly with a rock.

IMO, the earrings were knocked off of Sarai and/or ripped out of her ears during the struggle for her life.

If, in fact, Sarai was beaten to an unrecognizable state and her skull was cracked as the papers report, then rest assured that during this horrific beating anything that was able to come lose DID, and that includes flesh, hair, blood, bone, teeth, and most certainly earrings.

There is no telling what an awful state poor Sarai was in when found by the police.

IMO, since the murderer did not remove any of her other jewelry that would have been easier to remove, then he certainly did not take off her earrings and lay them on the ground beside her.

The murderer was busy holding her down with one hand and bludgeoning Sarai to death with the other hand as she fought for her life.

It appears from some of the videos which show a blood covered rock that her head was possibly forced upon a larger rock and then held down and beaten from above by a hand held rock; and/or the murderer bounced her head on and off of the larger rock.

When a human being is beaten to death with a rock by a psychopath whose goal is to k i l l, removing earrings never even crosses his mind.

"A psychopath whose goal is to kill" hides the body in a cave, collects the earrings from the ground, places them next to the body, takes her bag with everything inside except the driver's license, takes her iPad and cell phone. Decides to sell/give iPad to someone else who happens to turn it on only twice in order to skype with someone in the US.

Maybe.

 

[ThinkHard]

Greetings all,

Please excuse me for taking a bit of space here. I have been following this thread for some time. I was a first-time visitor to Istanbul this January myself. A father on a rare solo trip (which nobody made a fuss about …). I also actually took that walk along the walls by the sea, on Jan 22, only a day after Sarai presumably died and was hidden there.

Important things first: I don't remember making any observations that day that would give us any new hard clues. But I can say from my experience it doesn't seem unlikely to me that Sarai could have come, just from impulse, to take a last-day walk along that road by daylight, dressed for a sunny day, maybe for a friend who then hadn't made it.

I hope one day we'll get to know what happened, to honor Sarai's youthful spirit, to hopefully help her family and friends keep her memory alive, and for other travellers' sake.

When I took that walk I had landed on Kennedy Cadd. just by chance. I came out from Gülhane Park and, with no plans made, simply got curious to see how that road would bend around to seaside Sultanahmet (where I vaguely hoped to find some interesting musician tavernas for later visits). It was already getting dark, and after a time I noticed the wall side of the road was getting grimier. I stayed on the water side for the most part and never left the sidewalk. I was not afraid but kept walking, avoided eye contact with people on my way and stayed watchful. It's a part of travelling alone in a strange place. Maybe Sarai did all that and got attacked nevertheless. Maybe she had a careless moment at a tragically wrong time.

We all don't really know for sure what Sarai wanted on her trip and how she acted. Like me, she seemed to like wandering around on impulse, mingling with artists and see colorful places. The way I see her motivations (partly inferred from my own) I can accept her known activities more or less as understandable without having to presume a drug or sex scam or elaborate secret affairs (although all that remains possible). That includes the strange travel arrangements (mine raised eyebrows, too) and her last-day trip to the walls.

From what we know, she was ready (knowingly or not) to take greater risks than I would. I found street life in Istanbul friendly and safe, if not free of strain and conflict, the atmosphere less violent than in other cities. But meeting strangers alone is dangerous everywhere. And it's vital (for women more so, unfortunately) to keep eyes and ears alert and know whom and what to avoid. But she was discovering a new, adventurous self, on a budget, she wanted IG friends to meet her. She didn't post many new photos, but might have saved many for extensive editing (the clean look of some of her most applauded pictures suggests that to me).

The single one thing I find hard to imagine, having seen the walls and the environment, is how there could have been a fierce, deadly struggle without people taking notice. I think I saw homeless locals or rambling strangers every 30 meters or so. Is the murder site that shielded from road and adjoining caves? Anything I've missed upthread about the locals' actions that day or later? If they heard something but were unable or unwilling to interfere, how could they not even talk about it so word would have reached LE sooner? If they knew there was a body, how could they stay and wait, only to leave when LE found it?

On my walk that day, I remember wondering why some of the more elaborately made fireplaces between the waterside riffraff looked so deserted. I remember the gloomy look on the faces of an older homeless guy and a very young one. I thought it was a trait of their gloomy life. Or had they seen something? Where are they now?

Thanks so much for joining us! And thank you so much for your post.

I imagine it must feel sort of weird for you to have been so close to the very spot in question.

I can see your path to the walls, through gulhane park a much more plausible way for someone to have randomly wandered there. It never felt right that Sarai wandered there randomly especially given the direction ( opposite from the way you came) she came from, almost a mile from much of anything. As someone quite familiar with Istanbul, it just seems unlikely.

O/T I hope you enjoyed your time in Istanbul, and got to see parts of Istanbul away from sultanahmet and beyoglu. Hopefully you got to Ortakoy, that's one of my favorites!

 

[Sandstorm]

Ok I follow....

Except weren't the earrings found in the same vicinity her body was found? I believe even buried into the dirt pretty much under her body?

And wasnt she beaten in another cave...the dragged to this second cave where both she and her earrings were found?

So if the earring were beaten off her head in a struggle, the wouldn't the have fallen to the ground and be forgotten where she was beaten?

How did the earrings that fell off in the struggle make it to the cave with her body, unless someone put them there?

Good points ThinkHard.
So Sarai was NOT found in the cave where the bloody rock was shown?
She was beaten in the bloody rock cave and then dragged to the second cave?
Please clarify the logistics of this for me if you dont mind.
thanks.

 

[stmarysmead]

When someone is beaten in the face until they are unrecognizable, that seems to me like a rage killing. Somehow it does not fit with two strangers struggling over an Ipad...or even an attempted rape. Someone was destroying her.

The alternative, of course, is that destroying her face served a purpose. Leaving her license there seems to say..."Here she is." ...no issues identifying this terribly beaten woman.

In regard to Taylan, I am not surprised at his reactions. Perhaps he flirts on the Internet for a little entertainment. It feels safe. He may not have thought that any of these women would come to Turkey and try to intrude on his "real life." Once SS was in Istanbul, he did not make himself very available. Then suddenly, her husband calls him and she has gone missing. He may have been both frightened and angry to be pulled into a mess by an Internet flirtation that this woman from NYC took way too seriously.

I do believe there is a reason SS was wearing her pretty hair down and dressed attractively that last day. I don't think she was thinking of her kids. These were her last hours of her dream trip. She had several hundred dollars left....but it was in her room. She could have used it to see some sights, take a tour, or buy souvenirs, gifts for hr children.

I think she was reaching out to her Internet "friends" or someone that day. Taylan may not have been the only one she called. I think she was meeting someone that she wanted to look attractive for. Maybe she walked somewhere with that person and then he left her to find her own way back to her room.Or he killed her.

And this could be where the "criminal element" comes in. I think these FBI sources that spoke to the media were indicating that the evidence shows this case to be much more complicated than it seems. Some of you wonderful posters have deduced that from the limited information we have, and they have much, much more. In a way, they were saying that this case is NOT about crime in Istanbul, or women traveling alone, or any of those early distractions. SS may have met these members of the criminal element innocently enough. They may have fooled her into doing something, delivering something, that brought her into the middle of something dangerous. Reading those comments about scams against women traveling alone perpetrating by charming young men...made me think again that SS was at a time in her life where she seemed ready to take risks to meet charming attractive men. She would have been vulnerable IMO.

 

[ThinkHard]

Good points ThinkHard.
So Sarai was NOT found in the cave where the bloody rock was shown?
She was beaten in the bloody rock cave and then dragged to the second cave?
Please clarify the logistics of this for me if you dont mind.
thanks.

I haven't seen pictures where they show a bloody rock. Do you have a link to that btw?

Ok so my understanding is that the cave her body was found in, is the same cave her earrings where "buried" into the dirt near or under the body. (I don't remember specifically if it was under or just close).

However more recently it was determined by the use of luminol, that she was killed in another cave (about 100m away) and dragged to the cave her body was found. Apparently this was determined as the luminol glowed in this particular cave, and with the use of luminol a trail of blood determined that she was dragged from one spot to another.

I mean, with this case I'm never really sure what information the media is releasing is true, and even when it is true how much truth is in it, and how much is not. But this was indeed the most recent findings according to media via LE.

Which of course makes me wonder if her earring fell off during the struggle how they ended up in the cave with her body. Seems curious right? And makes you wonder if the earrings being left was deliberate. Because if it was a mad man, why would he even have noticed that her earrings fell off in a struggle? If she was dragged could her earrings have fallen off then? But still how would he notice them on the ground, and bother to place them, even bury them int the sand near her body?

And it seems weird that they just would have fallen while placing her in that cave, if they had stayed on her ears though the struggle, and dragging.

Additionally I'm sure the cops know, but I wish we knew for sure if the blood in the caves was tested and determined to be a DNA match to Sarai's.

 

[ThinkHard]

When someone is beaten in the face until they are unrecognizable, that seems to me like a rage killing. Somehow it does not fit with two strangers struggling over an Ipad...or even an attempted rape. Someone was destroying her.

The alternative, of course, is that destroying her face served a purpose. Leaving her license there seems to say..."Here she is." ...no issues identifying this terribly beaten woman.

In regard to Taylan, I am not surprised at his reactions. Perhaps he flirts on the Internet for a little entertainment. It feels safe. He may not have thought that any of these women would come to Turkey and try to intrude on his "real life." Once SS was in Istanbul, he did not make himself very available. Then suddenly, her husband calls him and she has gone missing. He may have been both frightened and angry to be pulled into a mess by an Internet flirtation that this woman from NYC took way too seriously.

I do believe there is a reason SS was wearing her pretty hair down and dressed attractively that last day. I don't think she was thinking of her kids. These were her last hours of her dream trip. She had several hundred dollars left....but it was in her room. She could have used it to see some sights, take a tour, or buy souvenirs, gifts for hr children.

I think she was reaching out to her Internet "friends" or someone that day. Taylan may not have been the only one she called. I think she was meeting someone that she wanted to look attractive for. Maybe she walked somewhere with that person and then he left her to find her own way back to her room.Or he killed her.

And this could be where the "criminal element" comes in. I think these FBI sources that spoke to the media were indicating that the evidence shows this case to be much more complicated than it seems. Some of you wonderful posters have deduced that from the limited information we have, and they have much, much more. In a way, they were saying that this case is NOT about crime in Istanbul, or women traveling alone, or any of those early distractions. SS may have met these members of the criminal element innocently enough. They may have fooled her into doing something, delivering something, that brought her into the middle of something dangerous. Reading those comments about scams against women traveling alone perpetrating by charming young men...made me think again that SS was at a time in her life where she seemed ready to take risks to meet charming attractive men. She would have been vulnerable IMO.

I have to agree with much of what you wrote. I was thinking about SS's IG friends and how they were the ones who kept trying to convince her about coming to Istanbul.

Before I continue too much I just want to emphasize that Istanbul is NOT inherently dangerous. And the dangers I am going to mention in a moment are ones that are easily avoidable, simply by not trusting strangers, you ignore strangers, you look street smart, you avoid these dangers.

Ok so in my experience there are many men out there in Istanbul (by no means the majority of Turkish men) who will try to scam a naive tourist. My Turkish "sister" would always warn me, "don't trust someone who invites you for tea on the street, don't trust someone who tries to pick you up online, don't trust the men who hit on you near Sultanhmet square, they work in the tourist industry, have little money, and are only after one of two things sex or money, don't tell anyone where you live, don't worry about being polite, if someone is harassing you tell a cop."

I can't tell you how many times while living there, that I was approached for a coffee at Starbucks, or a tea here, asked if they could take me to dinner. But I always said no and walked away. Even when eating out at a place in Sultanhamet I would be harassed by waiters saying "will you be my English tutor, where do you live, let's be friends, my friends and I are going to the islands tomorrow come with us." Even online...even now when I am back in the US, simply because I have tons of pictures from Turkey, and some Turkish friends I am always getting Facebook request from random Turkish men asking to be my friends and to come visit them in Turkey. Just the other day a Turkish man face booked me, I looked at his profile literally every single one of his Facebook friends was so dolled up Russian girl. It was creepy.

This stuff doesn't scare me though, because I never say yes, and I always just know how to walk away from the situation. But Turkish men like to use their words well, and to an American female will seem sweet, affectionate, cute, funny, and charming. When you say no they say "oh but you break my heart, no dinner, but I will be all alone, how about just a coffee then?" For every guy like this, there is another guys nearby who will say "oh don't trust him, trust me".

Most of this is also just flirty in jest for fun. But you never know when it will be the person who has more malicious intentions. Because it is these very same tactics that suck a tourist into traps to scam them.

Which brings me to Sarai, and I will say most people in Turkey are wonderful, but I always felt a little suscpicious about the fact that she had several Turkish IG friends who were contacting her through an online forum and trying to convince an American girl to come to Turkey alone. It's my hunch that the type of men that would reach out to a random American girl online and try to convince her to come to Turkey, might be the type of Turkish men with more impure intentions.

Which is why I still strongly believe one or some combination of her IG friends is involved in her death. I'm not sure exactly what kind of scam they/he may have gotten her in....but I've just always been suspicious of this angle.

I hope that wasnt too confusing. Sometimes you just have a hunch for something based on your own experience, and its not always easy to put it into words.

 

[stmarysmead]

I have to agree with much of what you wrote. I was thinking about SS's IG friends and how they were the ones who kept trying to convince her about coming to Istanbul.

Before I continue too much I just want to emphasize that Istanbul is NOT inherently dangerous. And the dangers I am going to mention in a moment are ones that are easily avoidable, simply by not trusting strangers, you ignore strangers, you look street smart, you avoid these dangers.

Ok so in my experience there are many men out there in Istanbul (by no means the majority of Turkish men) who will try to scam a naive tourist. My Turkish "sister" would always warn me, "don't trust someone who invites you for tea on the street, don't trust someone who tries to pick you up online, don't trust the men who hit on you near Sultanhmet square, they work in the tourist industry, have little money, and are only after one of two things sex or money, don't tell anyone where you live, don't worry about being polite, if someone is harassing you tell a cop."

I can't tell you how many times while living there, that I was approached for a coffee at Starbucks, or a tea here, asked if they could take me to dinner. But I always said no and walked away. Even when eating out at a place in Sultanhamet I would be harassed by waiters saying "will you be my English tutor, where do you live, let's be friends, my friends and I are going to the islands tomorrow come with us." Even online...even now when I am back in the US, simply because I have tons of pictures from Turkey, and some Turkish friends I am always getting Facebook request from random Turkish men asking to be my friends and to come visit them in Turkey. Just the other day a Turkish man face booked me, I looked at his profile literally every single one of his Facebook friends was so dolled up Russian girl. It was creepy.

This stuff doesn't scare me though, because I never say yes, and I always just know how to walk away from the situation. But Turkish men like to use their words well, and to an American female will seem sweet, affectionate, cute, funny, and charming. When you say no they say "oh but you break my heart, no dinner, but I will be all alone, how about just a coffee then?" For every guy like this, there is another guys nearby who will say "oh don't trust him, trust me".

Most of this is also just flirty in jest for fun. But you never know when it will be the person who has more malicious intentions. Because it is these very same tactics that suck a tourist into traps to scam them.

Which brings me to Sarai, and I will say most people in Turkey are wonderful, but I always felt a little suscpicious about the fact that she had several Turkish IG friends who were contacting her through an online forum and trying to convince an American girl to come to Turkey alone. It's my hunch that the type of men that would reach out to a random American girl online and try to convince her to come to Turkey, might be the type of Turkish men with more impure intentions.

Which is why I still strongly believe one or some combination of her IG friends is involved in her death. I'm not sure exactly what kind of scam they/he may have gotten her in....but I've just always been suspicious of this angle.

I hope that wasnt too confusing. Sometimes you just have a hunch for something based on your own experience, and its not always easy to put it into words.

Thanks was not enough! Great post...and this is where my thoughts are as well. By the way, my daughter has been to Turkey several times on business and Istanbul is one of her favorite cities of the world. She lives in London, but as also lived in NYC, Los angeles and Sam Francisco. She has only the highest praise for Istanbul. My son also traveled there this year and agreed. But all of us must be cautious with strangers...even if you are traveling to a picture perfect little village somewhere.

 

[Yashim]

From Daily Mail
......

Meanwhile, a witness has told Istanbul police that he saw Sierra speaking to a different man outside the city's Sultanahmet Mosque on January 11, just days after she arrived in the country.

He handed her a card and as she left the mosque, she took a walk with him and four or five other men, the witness claimed, Turkish newspaper Milliyet reported.

......

The witness said he then saw Sierra talking with the same man on January 21 at Topkapi Palace - the day she was due to fly home, but she never boarded the flight.

......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2277101/Sarai-Sierra-Turkish-police-hone-suspects-murder-New-York-mother-bludgeoned-death-Istanbul--including-Ammer-Reduron-stayed-Amsterdam.html


Were the above witness statements ever falsified?

How does her being seen in Topkapi Palace fit into the chain of events on that day she was murdered?

If she was really in Topkapi Palace, it should be in the afternoon, at least after her walk towards Sarayburnu.

Maybe security camera footage and similar stuff makes up the 95%, which LE is keeping to itself at the moment.

 

[SANDOVAL]

I thought she just had her jacket slung over her shoulder...? I did not see any paper bag.
What one does not see in the video is who may or may not be following her and many other details including if she was with anyone. The important video tapes of SS are hours of footage we have not seen and are privy to LE -they have not released much of anything which forces us to just speculate.

Glad to see jashim back too!

Which footage are you referring to? I didn't see one with the persons jacket slung over her shoulder, and I perceived a large reddish object that looked heavy,....someone even suggested a rug....is that the 'brown bag'? Is there a clearer video floating around? Thanks.

 

[Yashim]

Thanks was not enough! Great post...and this is where my thoughts are as well. By the way, my daughter has been to Turkey several times on business and Istanbul is one of her favorite cities of the world. She lives in London, but as also lived in NYC, Los angeles and Sam Francisco. She has only the highest praise for Istanbul. My son also traveled there this year and agreed. But all of us must be cautious with strangers...even if you are traveling to a picture perfect little village somewhere.

When one is foreign to a culture, one just doesn't get the signals the locals are receiving. Even if he does, he interprets them differently. And a lot is lost in the effort of communication, like a text read by a digital voice.

If a tourist is careful, Istanbul may be the safest place of its type, if not the most unsafe. I doubt there is that much variance in many other places.

I wish the visitors of Istanbul got the chance to meet the real Istanbullers, which make up at most 10% of the city population. I doubt they'd give the authentic flavor of the touts working for the carpet shops in Grand Bazaar. They may even seem like fellow tourists to you.

 

[Yashim]

Which footage are you referring to? I didn't see one with the persons jacket slung over her shoulder, and I perceived a large reddish object that looked heavy,....someone even suggested a rug....is that the 'brown bag'? Is there a clearer video floating around? Thanks.

I am seeing something wrapped in brown packaging paper. And her arm is over the package holding it close to her body. And I believe she is still wearing a dark brown jacket.

Sorry, I might have sounded like I'm fortunetelling looking into a coffee cup.