GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[CatFancier]

[/B]

RBBM

I think TH was shot in the chin.

I think that's what I read too. How would a different officer, not tangling with TN, hit him from so low? Could he have done it in a crouched position?

 

[Karma28]

I think that's what I read too. How would a different officer, not tangling with TN, hit him from so low? Could he have done it in a crouched position?

What I pictured when reading the articles is the officer grabbing TH's arms and struggling for the gun while pushing him back into the house. I don't think they ever fell down.
MOO

 

[Marnie]

I think that's what I read too. How would a different officer, not tangling with TN, hit him from so low? Could he have done it in a crouched position?

Maybe TH was hit as he was being tackled down to the ground.

That would explain the odd angle.

 

[bettiepageturner]

Relatively OT, but does anybody know if it's protocol to shoot to kill in a situation like that? Is that ever protocol, or does LE always err on the side of "incapacitate only," barring bad aim?

I would assume it's in the state's best interest to keep the suspect alive, but I guess in situations like that the life of LE is prioritized and the only way to truly guarantee that is to kill the shooter..

I guess I'm just curious if TH's injury was a result of a missed fatal shot, or the result of a perfect shot (in that it didn't kill).

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I in theory, could download what is on my DVR, by plugging into my laptop and burning a CD. But it does take an adapter...not difficult by what I've seen online. (I'd really like to burn a couple of movies and free up the space, but haven't yet.)

Thanks! :seeya:

 

[human]

Those guns LE have are powerful.

Does anyone know what kind of damage they would do to him even if shot in the chin?

LE is trained to shoot to kill.

I do not feel sorry for him per se. But I do feel sorry in a philosophical way because his life was filled with pain. It would have been better had he not been born for sure.

I think it is from the AA book that says everyone serves a purpose. Some serve as a bad example.

For me rather than just gossiping about this , that and the other thing, I wish something could be learned from all of this. Where did it go wrong? What interventions could have been done?

It was not a surprise to many people that he was the one. Even waaaaay back as a little guy there were concerns.

The pain from someone just 17 years old. So many suffered because of him and now will continue to suffer the rest of their lives. Beyond sad.

 

[intrepid]

"FBI Special Agent Andy Farrell knocked on the front door, announced themselves as police and came face-to-face with Holder.

The FBI agent asked to speak the teen but was refused. When Farrell then told him he was under arrest, "Holder reached behind him and produced a handgun." Farrell grabbed for Holder and the gun and a struggled began. Holder shot Lodatto in the groin, then Saginaw police Detective Robert Richardson shot Holder in the head, according to the affidavit."


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Jul/24/texas-teen-faces-charges-of-wounding-officer/

- Detective Richardson may have been avoiding hitting Agent Farrell, which may be why it involved TH's lower face, rather than a deadly head
shot. -imho

 

[Confusion]

I don't know any more about it than anyone else does, but I thought I had read that they were attempting to take TH down/handcuff him when he pulled the gun and shot. If that's the case, he may have been heading for the ground already when the officer fired, which would make his aim off some. MOO

 

[kukla]

Relatively OT, but does anybody know if it's protocol to shoot to kill in a situation like that? Is that ever protocol, or does LE always err on the side of "incapacitate only," barring bad aim?

I would assume it's in the state's best interest to keep the suspect alive, but I guess in situations like that the life of LE is prioritized and the only way to truly guarantee that is to kill the shooter..

I guess I'm just curious if TH's injury was a result of a missed fatal shot, or the result of a perfect shot (in that it didn't kill).

I was told by an officer that they are trained to shoot for the midsection of the body because it is the biggest target and lessens the chance they might miss. If they only try to incapacitate they run the risk of missing altogether and putting themselves and others in danger.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Not sure if anything from the neck up is what they are talking about. Chin, jaw, cheek, nose, ear they are all on your head.

 

[CatFancier]

Relatively OT, but does anybody know if it's protocol to shoot to kill in a situation like that? Is that ever protocol, or does LE always err on the side of "incapacitate only," barring bad aim?

I would assume it's in the state's best interest to keep the suspect alive, but I guess in situations like that the life of LE is prioritized and the only way to truly guarantee that is to kill the shooter..

I guess I'm just curious if TH's injury was a result of a missed fatal shot, or the result of a perfect shot (in that it didn't kill).

Great question! I can't find that they have to use it but did find this in the Texas Penal Code:

A peace officer is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the peace officer reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make an arrest, or to prevent escape after arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection <respectfully snipped>

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm

 

[CBTampa]

I had thought 3 shots were fired. Was that misreporting? If so where did the other shot go?

 

[jjenny]

Relatively OT, but does anybody know if it's protocol to shoot to kill in a situation like that? Is that ever protocol, or does LE always err on the side of "incapacitate only," barring bad aim?

I would assume it's in the state's best interest to keep the suspect alive, but I guess in situations like that the life of LE is prioritized and the only way to truly guarantee that is to kill the shooter..

I guess I'm just curious if TH's injury was a result of a missed fatal shot, or the result of a perfect shot (in that it didn't kill).

LE doesn't have a protocol where they shoot just to incapacitate but not kill.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Another thing I was thinking about is, if the officer was shot in the groin and the bullet is lodged in his hip, that sounds like the gun was fired from an upward angle.
If they were struggling they might have gone down and he fired up.
Another reason why a defence attorney might go for a not guilty plea in the shooting would be to say that her clients intent was to shoot himself, in the struggle the gun went off, he was not intentionally shooting at the officer.

 

[skibaboo]

Re the earlier discussion about TH's condition and injuries. I spent a while today looking for the video of TH being put into the ambulance that I had seen that day. FWIW he appears to be conscious when put into the ambulance, his hand does seem to be cuffed to the side of the stretcher. Once inside the ambulance the other arm moves around a lot and it looks like he puts his hand to his face and he also looks like he is trying to get up. I noted blood on the lower part of his face.

Video titled 'Officer, murder suspect shot' On page 4 of the slider - starts at about the 1:45 mark.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/22909842/police-enter-saginaw-home-in-murdered-girls-neighborhood-shots-fired

Just quoting myself here. I think I am going round the bend :scared: I SWEAR the first time I saw that he had a white dressing around the top of his head and blood running down his face O_O

 

[GingerzMomma]

I think most LE carry 9mm, which definitely isn't going to do the damage that a .45 caliber would?

 

[J1981]

That officer is a hero IMO. Didn't an original MSM say that three shots were fired? If Officer Lodatto tackled TH when he pulled the gun and TH shot the officer in the groin and the officer shot him from some odd angle, this could explain why TH wasn't killed outright. However, if the second shot came from another officer, you would think they would aim for the head due to the struggle which would definitely result in brain damage.

ETA: just read the article a second time:



How would he hit him in a way to not cause brain damage?

Yes, I felt the same way because I thought I read that he went to the door and when TH got violent he pulled him INSIDE the house. Put himself in more danger and kept the public safer. Sorry I can't remember where I saw this though!

 

[Linda7NJ]

I so hope the paternity papers do not mean he is a father.

What does it mean to be arrested with drug paraphernalia? What would he have?

It is interesting, that we know of as we do not know what the liquids are, that no drugs were taken from the home.

That really surprises me.

I hope he didn't spawn!

 

[J1981]

Sorry one more thought on the officer shooting TH:

IMO:

If an officer is in a struggle with an armed suspect who has already shot him, I don't think the second officer would try to aim anywhere in particular EXCEPT a) towards the suspect and b) away from the first officer.

Could've been that TH's head was away from the first officer and that's why he was shot there. Main goal: shoot suspect so he doesn't shoot officer #1 again.

 

[CBTampa]

I guess a neighbor said that three shot were fired.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/offi...t-of-gallagher-home-in-saginaw-216586751.html