GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #7

[kkdj]

So are they or aren't they looking for a Chrysler Pacifica mini-van or a vehicle like this?
Did the FBI Agent use the guys car make and model as an excuse to check him out, or was the gun drawn because they really are looking for a vehicle like this?
:facepalm:
With very little new media reports, and the Police saying nothing about the investigation or new leads - its hard to determine the facts from deflections.

I think at the time they were looking for a dark colored mini van, plus this guy has a record, plus he lives right around the corner.
jmo

 

[briTCU]

Does Saginaw PD provide a police log to the community for all calls called in?

I haven't seen this on their website, but just emailed them to ask.

 

[gitana1]

Parker told CBS 11 News the FBI agent told him a Chrysler Pacifica mini-van, which looked like the one he was driving at the time, was seen on home security video driving on Alanna Gallagher’s street.

Saginaw police, however; told CBS 11 News investigators are not looking for a vehicle by that description.

Huh. Sounds like maybe the FBI and the local police aren't looking for the same thing.

Well, they could be looking for both, right? Maybe they saw the dark SUV on surveillance near Alanna's home and want to find out who it is and maybe someone also saw a red truck near the place her body was left. I mean they have to check everything out.

Weird. So is it true or not?

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/07/17/saginaw-family-files-complaint-against-police-department/

I bet it is but they sure wouldn't want the perp to know that.

Now that is terrifying!!! Someone grabbed you on your way to the door, just out of view of a watching parent! :shudder:

No they didn;t get me. It was an attempt. Read below:

WOW! I am so sorry to read you went through this! I don't know if as an adult you realize how very luck you are?

Do you care to share more details?

How did the person approach you? HOw did you get away?

Was it a man or a woman?

I'm very glad you are alright.

It's okay. It was 40 years ago! I was scared but I;m sure it was way worse for my mom.

After my mom watched me go up the drive, I must have knocked but no one answered. Huge Mormon family with 7 girls who lived on the corner. I loved to play with them! What I remember is stubbornly sitting on the porch in front of the door, waiting. It seemed like forever. In the meantime, my mom had gone inside our house which was five doors down. She was doing laundry.

After a while, I gave up and walked back down the walkway to the sidewalk. I started to walk up the street and up came a man in a tan and brownish station wagon. He slowed and pulled into the drive of the house next door to the Jones' house (where I was) and blocked me from walking past him on the sidewalk. He just stared. I remember he had glasses, kind of balding and in retrospect was probably in his fifties. He said nothing, just blocked me from walking past (I was not allowed in the street so I couldn't walk around) and just stared, not saying anything.

Then he backed up and I walked past, and he reversed on the street and backed up pacing me. He then blocked me in the next drive. Again, just staring not saying anything. I knew it wasn't right and I felt scared. After a moment he backed up again and again backed his station wagon down the street in reverse, pacing me. As I walked toward my house he held up an empty jar (seriously) and said, "Hey, I have some candy. Get in my car and I'll give you some."

The whole way he acted, the empty jar, it was "off" even to me at 4. The sad thing is had he acted sweetly or actually had candy, I might have gone right up to him. As it was, I kind of froze, not knowing what to do, just stood there.

In the meantime, my mom was yards away in the laundry room when suddenly, for no reason that makes sense, her heart froze and she just gasped, "Anna!", dropped what she was doing and began to run for the front door. No joke. She ran outside and saw me standing there between the houses, with some man trying to talk to me. She screamed, "Anna! Get in the house!"

Next thing I knew, I was yanked into the house and shoved in front of the t.v.. "Stay there!" She then took off, leaving me totally alone and jumped in her little v.w. bug and chased that guy! She followed him, speeding around, for miles. Got his license but couldn't catch him.

I guess she finally gave up and she called the police. The next thing I remember was eating a popsicle on the counter at the police station. They apparently found and brought the man in. He had a prior record for molesting a little girl or girls. He lied and said he wasn't trying to get me into his car. He said he just asked me to lift my skirt.

I guess in California in the 70's, asking a little girl to lift her skirt was okay, because he was not charged with anything and was allowed to leave with a warning! I think he wasn't about to get caught again and had he got me into his car I don't think anyone would have ever seen me again. At least not alive.

What's interesting about the whole thing to me, (besides my mom in the laundry room suddenly gasping my name - we are VERY close BTW and always have been), is that after a little while, my mom must have let me roam the neighborhood alone again because I lived my whole childhood outside roaming around!

And at age 11, I encountered another perv! Two friends and I were approached by some weirdo looking for his "lost dog"!!! But we knew better and just ran like hell!

And you know to think of it, one of my beautiful brothers was also approached when he was 11, on a quiet street in our neighborhood by a couple (man and woman) in a van. But I can't remember the details. I just know he came home running and crying.

Dang! Santa Ana/Tustin in the 70's. WTH? Maybe that's why I have this deep fear of these kinds of cases. Little Laura Bradbury also went missing when I was a teen and she went to my cousin's preschool in Costa Mesa. Her disappearance impacted me greatly. I carried a tiny photo of her from the newspaper in a little jewelry box for two decades.

When I saw the mom of one of the boys interviewed that's exactly what she claimed happened. She sent them to move it saying the clean community thing.

I often overhear my own son parroting me verbatim likes the comments are his own, I think that's perfectly normal.

I heard the very same thing. "Hey mom, there's a big tarp in the road!" "Well why don't you guys pick it up." That's what she interviewed, IIRC.

 

[Brightbird]

Boggles my mind that a 6yo can be murdered and no one has a clue who or why. I simply cannot fathom there being no arrest as of yet. Kids can disappear fast but from what I have been reading no one was keeping a sharp eye on this girl. She 'might' have gone to a friends? A 6yo should not have that much freedom because they don't know the dangers. Sad sad situation IMO.

I get the impression that looking in as an outsider it appears Alanna was roaming around unchecked, but in reality that was not the case. We get to see a snapshot on a very unfortunate day and I think perceptions are distorted by what has occurred.

 

[LDhummingbird]

What a terrifying story, gitana. You are so lucky to be here.

 

[human]

I get the impression that looking in as an outsider it appears Alanna was roaming around unchecked, but in reality that was not the case. We get to see a snapshot on a very unfortunate day and I think perceptions are distorted by what has occurred.

To me, a child who has left the home at 4 PM and people start looking for her at 6 is unusual. She just turned 6.

To me, that is really really young. Just out of kindergarten.

Then to still be looking for her at 8 and at 9 is unusual as well.

4 hours and your child has not been seen is rather a long time.

The child could have fallen and been unconscious. Of course, the reality was much worse.

How many homes would the parents check and then know there is a problem? When I used to live in town, there were about three or four homes where my child could conceivably be. After that, there were no possiblities. Any other home where she might be would not be acceptable. And that was years ago.

 

[LDhummingbird]

However erroneously, and however much she kicks herself for it now, LG told me she did not call the police at first because she thought they would blow her off. And she had the "24 hours missing person" thing in her head, not knowing that doesn't necessarily apply to children.

 

[TracyLynnS]

RE: the 24 hours before filing a missing persons report....

Other posters, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm almost positive that a national law was enacted in the late 80s early 90s that requires all US law enforcement to immediately take a missing persons report on a child and they are not allowed to require a waiting period.

I recall a case in 1996, after the law was enacted, 6 year old Katherine Korzulius went missing in her Texas neighborhood and police told the mom to wait 48 or 72 hours or something before they would take a report. I think they assumed she'd run away and would be home by dark when she got scared, or maybe was just out playing and lost track of time and would eventually come home. But Katherine's mother dropped her off at the neighborhood mailboxes and she was expected to arrive home in just a few minutes after the short walk home.

I think they gave the mother this information in error, as the law was in effect by then. IIRC, the mother discovered her little girl dead in the street about a half hour later. They don't know if she fell off her mother's car after stopping at the mailboxes, was hit by a car while walking down the street, or was abducted and was thrown or fell from an abductor's car.

 

[willowfae]

It does us no good to judge their parenting now. Their daughter is gone.

 

[momtective]

So are they or aren't they looking for a Chrysler Pacifica mini-van or a vehicle like this?
Did the FBI Agent use the guys car make and model as an excuse to check him out, or was the gun drawn because they really are looking for a vehicle like this?
:facepalm:
With very little new media reports, and the Police saying nothing about the investigation or new leads - its hard to determine the facts from deflections.

:seeya: The scanner thread has some great info regarding things that might not have been made public in the case http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214312&page=15

 

[gitana1]

I think at the time they were looking for a dark colored mini van, plus this guy has a record, plus he lives right around the corner.
jmo

Makes you wonder why he would want publicity filing a complaint. Now everyone is going to know about his record.

I get the impression that looking in as an outsider it appears Alanna was roaming around unchecked, but in reality that was not the case. We get to see a snapshot on a very unfortunate day and I think perceptions are distorted by what has occurred.

Well, neighbors interviewed that she was always outside playing and running the neighborhood and Lhummingbird also said that maybe the reason she was always outside playing was because she was an extrovert in a family of introverts.

I'm not criticizing mind you. I understand why that's a concern, and well I should as my own experiences show!! But I also truly believe that child abductions ending in death are extremely, extremely rare and while most of us don't let our kids play outside alone in this day and age, I do rue what is being lost by this approach and I do, frankly, question it.

Despite my experiences, I had a glorious, free childhood. Us kids had the run of the neighborhood and surrounding areas, like the orange groves that were everywhere at the time. My godsister and I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, after spending the night at her house, get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles, all day, wandering the subdivisions in the hills, looking at horses, climbing trees.

Another one of my best friends and I would roam around old railroad tracks, sometimes talking to homeless people encamped there! and through drainage ditches and underground flood control tunnels (with flashlights), for hours and hours. It was great. We caught tadpoles in the ditches and scared ourselves in the dark tunnels reading weird graffiti and finding stuff like beer bottles and odd things. (Side note, when I was about 6, a friend and I caught several "tadpoles" and brought them into our bedrooms to grow in bowls of water. They were not "tadpoles". They were mosquitoes!!!!!)

We took the bus to the beach, alone, as teens and preteens, we were dropped off all day at Disney at age 12, we jumped fences into people's yards, roamed the hillsides, gossiped for long periods on the round, enclosures at the top of the crazy high, hot metal slides at the park.

We had crazy wars at constructions sites. For years they built offices where there used to be orange groves in area surrounding our subdivision, which we easily reached jumping walls at the end of each culdesac. They had scaffolding all around that we ran around on, and we went into the newly built buildings and jumped off the scaffolds onto huge piles of sand and dirt they had. The entire neighborhood of kids would assemble there, divide into armies and using BB guns (yes, BB guns!) and pellet guns, and whatever weapons we could, attack the heck out of each other. And I don;t remember anyone running home crying either!!

We played weekly at the old cemetery right by my house. I still walk there sometimes when I am by my mom's. I roamed there alone sometimes, reading all the tombstones. It's a super cool place. The oldest and largest in Orange County. I also went with friends running around inside the mausoleum and we talked to the eerie attendant who one day had small bugs crawling around on his face!

You know, I wouldn't trade that free and beautiful childhood for all the playdates, X-boxes, I-phones/pads/pods, and over-scheduled days filled with a multitude of structured activities, in the world. Despite the risk.

And today if some parents continue not to give in to the fear, I refuse to criticize them. What have kids lost by not being able to play outside? More important, what have they gained? Since most kids who are killed are killed by family or people they know and trust like babysitters or whatever, is the incredible loss of freedom and joy worth it?

 

[kkdj]

Gitano
what a scary situation that happened to you! Glad it turned out ok.
Cool about your mom having that feeling. The same thing has occurred with my dad and me and my daughter and me. Its a connection that is very deep imo.

 

[elmomom]

Makes you wonder why he would want publicity filing a complaint. Now everyone is going to know about his record.



Well, neighbors interviewed that she was always outside playing and running the neighborhood and Lhummingbird also said that maybe the reason she was always outside playing was because she was an extrovert in a family of introverts.

I'm not criticizing mind you. I understand why that's a concern, and well I should as my own experiences show!! But I also truly believe that child abductions ending in death are extremely, extremely rare and while most of us don't let our kids play outside alone in this day and age, I do rue what is being lost by this approach and I do, frankly, question it.

Despite my experiences, I had a glorious, free childhood. Us kids had the run of the neighborhood and surrounding areas, like the orange groves that were everywhere at the time. My godsister and I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, after spending the night at her house, get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles, all day, wandering the subdivisions in the hills, looking at horses, climbing trees.

Another one of my best friends and I would roam around old railroad tracks, sometimes talking to homeless people encamped there! and through drainage ditches and underground flood control tunnels (with flashlights), for hours and hours. It was great. We caught tadpoles in the ditches and scared ourselves in the dark tunnels reading weird graffiti and finding stuff like beer bottles and odd things. (Side note, when I was about 6, a friend and I caught several "tadpoles" and brought them into our bedrooms to grow in bowls of water. They were not "tadpoles". They were mosquitoes!!!!!)

We took the bus to the beach, alone, as teens and preteens, we were dropped off all day at Disney at age 12, we jumped fences into people's yards, roamed the hillsides, gossiped for long periods on the round, enclosures at the top of the crazy high, hot metal slides at the park.

We had crazy wars at constructions sites. For years they built offices where there used to be orange groves in area surrounding our subdivision, which we easily reached jumping walls at the end of each culdesac. They had scaffolding all around that we ran around on, and we went into the newly built buildings and jumped off the scaffolds onto huge piles of sand and dirt they had. The entire neighborhood of kids would assemble there, divide into armies and using BB guns (yes, BB guns!) and pellet guns, and whatever weapons we could, attack the heck out of each other. And I don;t remember anyone running home crying either!!

We played weekly at the old cemetery right by my house. I still walk there sometimes when I am by my mom's. I roamed there alone sometimes, reading all the tombstones. It's a super cool place. The oldest and largest in Orange County. I also went with friends running around inside the mausoleum and we talked to the eerie attendant who one day had small bugs crawling around on his face!

You know, I wouldn't trade that free and beautiful childhood for all the playdates, X-boxes, I-phones/pads/pods, and over-scheduled days filled with a multitude of structured activities, in the world. Despite the risk.

And today if some parents continue not to give in to the fear, I refuse to criticize them. What have kids lost by not being able to play outside? More important, what have they gained? Since most kids who are killed are killed by family or people they know and trust like babysitters or whatever, is the incredible loss of freedom and joy worth it?

I cannot thank you enough, I totally agree with this. Statistics do not lie, and your children are safer roaming the streets than riding in your car.

 

[prima.facie]

Soliciting generally depends on a city ordinance, not neighborhood (I don't think). In my city, if I have a "No Soliciting" sign they can't knock on my door, it's illegal for sales people to knock.

In other cities, like Richardson, for example, door to door soliciting is completely forbidden. A friend who lives there has a copy of the ordinance taped to her front door window. She just likes to remind people before they knock.

That doesn't stop some people though. They knock anyway. Most sales people are deterred by my sign. I still get a few who miss it, or ignore it.

Door to door sales people ALWAYS give me the creeps.

The town I live in, has a "No Knock" policy and they hand out signs to place on your doors. The only people who are allowed to "solicit" must register with the town, get a background check and photo taken for list for public to use. Really that is only groups like girl scouts/boy scouts, mormans, etc. My town STRESSES that if you see a solicitor and they don't have the proper town ID on them call police.

I live in a rural town outside of Denver. We have a real problem with people coming in from the Denver area and scouting neighborhoods or pretending to be selling things for the sole purpose of breaking & entering/robbery. I cant even tell you how many times I have called police due to scouters and people soliciting that are not suppose to.

The town's sign on my door has a note added to it by me: police will be called.

I also have a "homeowner is armed" (with picture of gun) sticker.

I get ZERO knocks on my door from strangers anymore

I wish more people would be more diligent about the goings on in their neighborhood. Sometimes I feel like the neighborhood snoop...but im not snooping, just keeping my eye out. I always know who does and who doesn't belong around here.....and if im not sure, I watch them. We all have to look out for each other!


ETA. yesterday the neighbors across the street had left their garage door open. it was open ALL day. they were not home ALL day. I don't know them as they moved in recently. but I watched their house ALL day...just in case. Id hope someone would do the same for me.

 

[human]

Makes you wonder why he would want publicity filing a complaint. Now everyone is going to know about his record.



Well, neighbors interviewed that she was always outside playing and running the neighborhood and Lhummingbird also said that maybe the reason she was always outside playing was because she was an extrovert in a family of introverts.

I'm not criticizing mind you. I understand why that's a concern, and well I should as my own experiences show!! But I also truly believe that child abductions ending in death are extremely, extremely rare and while most of us don't let our kids play outside alone in this day and age, I do rue what is being lost by this approach and I do, frankly, question it.

Despite my experiences, I had a glorious, free childhood. Us kids had the run of the neighborhood and surrounding areas, like the orange groves that were everywhere at the time. My godsister and I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, after spending the night at her house, get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles, all day, wandering the subdivisions in the hills, looking at horses, climbing trees.

Another one of my best friends and I would roam around old railroad tracks, sometimes talking to homeless people encamped there! and through drainage ditches and underground flood control tunnels (with flashlights), for hours and hours. It was great. We caught tadpoles in the ditches and scared ourselves in the dark tunnels reading weird graffiti and finding stuff like beer bottles and odd things. (Side note, when I was about 6, a friend and I caught several "tadpoles" and brought them into our bedrooms to grow in bowls of water. They were not "tadpoles". They were mosquitoes!!!!!)

We took the bus to the beach, alone, as teens and preteens, we were dropped off all day at Disney at age 12, we jumped fences into people's yards, roamed the hillsides, gossiped for long periods on the round, enclosures at the top of the crazy high, hot metal slides at the park.

We had crazy wars at constructions sites. For years they built offices where there used to be orange groves in area surrounding our subdivision, which we easily reached jumping walls at the end of each culdesac. They had scaffolding all around that we ran around on, and we went into the newly built buildings and jumped off the scaffolds onto huge piles of sand and dirt they had. The entire neighborhood of kids would assemble there, divide into armies and using BB guns (yes, BB guns!) and pellet guns, and whatever weapons we could, attack the heck out of each other. And I don;t remember anyone running home crying either!!

We played weekly at the old cemetery right by my house. I still walk there sometimes when I am by my mom's. I roamed there alone sometimes, reading all the tombstones. It's a super cool place. The oldest and largest in Orange County. I also went with friends running around inside the mausoleum and we talked to the eerie attendant who one day had small bugs crawling around on his face!

You know, I wouldn't trade that free and beautiful childhood for all the playdates, X-boxes, I-phones/pads/pods, and over-scheduled days filled with a multitude of structured activities, in the world. Despite the risk.

And today if some parents continue not to give in to the fear, I refuse to criticize them. What have kids lost by not being able to play outside? More important, what have they gained? Since most kids who are killed are killed by family or people they know and trust like babysitters or whatever, is the incredible loss of freedom and joy worth it?

Those days are gone because empty lots do not exist, for one thing.

People where I live have cabins. We would go at young ages, such as 8 and be gone all day on the water, building rafts, whatever.

I look at that now and think how lucky I was that nothing happened. But of course, it happened to other children , and that is how parents learned that life jackets are a good idea.

It is only through luck that lots of us survived. When I think of the incredbily dangerous and stupid things I did, I was not saved by my intelligence. It was luck because other kids became dead or paralyzed from diving into the rocks, for instance.

Things are different nowadays and it is sad. Cars have made this a different world.

Nowadays if one wants children, rather than the "whatever" approach, it is going to involve dilgence and sacrifice on the parent's part. Saving for higher ed, spending time with your kids, putting your needs aside and taking them places to play if you have no yard, inviting friends over for them and watching them.

Kids want your time. Think of the best times with your parents. It was their time you valued. Cooking with you, bringing you to the beach, having weinie roasts, playing catch, going fishing, and?

 

[prima.facie]

We have recently been informed (by local LE) in our neighborhood that if we dont answer the door our home might be burglarized because they will think nobody is home.

I do not answer my door ever unless im expecting someone. Even then, I look to see who it is.

I am armed. Very armed. I have a loaded gun ALWAYS on me. (I have a CCP and nice arsenal at my house....as I love to shoot and like to be safe lol).

I have a sticker on my FRONT/BACK door that says HOMEOWNER ARMED. I had a cop friend give it to me. If one thinks they have the possibility of being shot to death, they will generally avoid attempting to enter. However.....if someone knocks, I dont answer and they attempt to enter somehow, they will have a gun in their face.

I tell everyone I know (and all LE I personally know say this) never open a door to a stranger. If someone attempts to gain entrance - either use a weapon or call 911. It is not worth your life to voluntarily open the door to someone who may want to harm you!

 

[GingerzMomma]

Makes you wonder why he would want publicity filing a complaint. Now everyone is going to know about his record.



Well, neighbors interviewed that she was always outside playing and running the neighborhood and Lhummingbird also said that maybe the reason she was always outside playing was because she was an extrovert in a family of introverts.

I'm not criticizing mind you. I understand why that's a concern, and well I should as my own experiences show!! But I also truly believe that child abductions ending in death are extremely, extremely rare and while most of us don't let our kids play outside alone in this day and age, I do rue what is being lost by this approach and I do, frankly, question it.

Despite my experiences, I had a glorious, free childhood. Us kids had the run of the neighborhood and surrounding areas, like the orange groves that were everywhere at the time. My godsister and I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, after spending the night at her house, get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles, all day, wandering the subdivisions in the hills, looking at horses, climbing trees.

Another one of my best friends and I would roam around old railroad tracks, sometimes talking to homeless people encamped there! and through drainage ditches and underground flood control tunnels (with flashlights), for hours and hours. It was great. We caught tadpoles in the ditches and scared ourselves in the dark tunnels reading weird graffiti and finding stuff like beer bottles and odd things. (Side note, when I was about 6, a friend and I caught several "tadpoles" and brought them into our bedrooms to grow in bowls of water. They were not "tadpoles". They were mosquitoes!!!!!)

We took the bus to the beach, alone, as teens and preteens, we were dropped off all day at Disney at age 12, we jumped fences into people's yards, roamed the hillsides, gossiped for long periods on the round, enclosures at the top of the crazy high, hot metal slides at the park.

We had crazy wars at constructions sites. For years they built offices where there used to be orange groves in area surrounding our subdivision, which we easily reached jumping walls at the end of each culdesac. They had scaffolding all around that we ran around on, and we went into the newly built buildings and jumped off the scaffolds onto huge piles of sand and dirt they had. The entire neighborhood of kids would assemble there, divide into armies and using BB guns (yes, BB guns!) and pellet guns, and whatever weapons we could, attack the heck out of each other. And I don;t remember anyone running home crying either!!

We played weekly at the old cemetery right by my house. I still walk there sometimes when I am by my mom's. I roamed there alone sometimes, reading all the tombstones. It's a super cool place. The oldest and largest in Orange County. I also went with friends running around inside the mausoleum and we talked to the eerie attendant who one day had small bugs crawling around on his face!

You know, I wouldn't trade that free and beautiful childhood for all the playdates, X-boxes, I-phones/pads/pods, and over-scheduled days filled with a multitude of structured activities, in the world. Despite the risk.

And today if some parents continue not to give in to the fear, I refuse to criticize them. What have kids lost by not being able to play outside? More important, what have they gained? Since most kids who are killed are killed by family or people they know and trust like babysitters or whatever, is the incredible loss of freedom and joy worth it?

You nearly described my childhood (minus the orange trees, of course!). In the summer we left in the morning, were supposed to check in at lunch & dinner (or at least call from someone else's house if you ate there) - and stay wherever the "boundary" was set.....on the street, the block.....it grew with age & circle of friends. And NONE of our parents were following us around like shadows all day.

I wasn't going a mile away at age 6 (neither was Alanna to anyone's knowledge), but as I've said before I absolutely did walk down our side of street on same block down to a friends house before I was in kindergarten (and she to our house). My sister went a lot further than I did at same ages, but of course she was often my tag-along and I was supposed to be watching her - something else to thoughtfully consider.

Ah, the seventies.......

 

[blue22]

Makes you wonder why he would want publicity filing a complaint. Now everyone is going to know about his record.



Well, neighbors interviewed that she was always outside playing and running the neighborhood and Lhummingbird also said that maybe the reason she was always outside playing was because she was an extrovert in a family of introverts.

I'm not criticizing mind you. I understand why that's a concern, and well I should as my own experiences show!! But I also truly believe that child abductions ending in death are extremely, extremely rare and while most of us don't let our kids play outside alone in this day and age, I do rue what is being lost by this approach and I do, frankly, question it.

Despite my experiences, I had a glorious, free childhood. Us kids had the run of the neighborhood and surrounding areas, like the orange groves that were everywhere at the time. My godsister and I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, after spending the night at her house, get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles, all day, wandering the subdivisions in the hills, looking at horses, climbing trees.

Another one of my best friends and I would roam around old railroad tracks, sometimes talking to homeless people encamped there! and through drainage ditches and underground flood control tunnels (with flashlights), for hours and hours. It was great. We caught tadpoles in the ditches and scared ourselves in the dark tunnels reading weird graffiti and finding stuff like beer bottles and odd things. (Side note, when I was about 6, a friend and I caught several "tadpoles" and brought them into our bedrooms to grow in bowls of water. They were not "tadpoles". They were mosquitoes!!!!!)

We took the bus to the beach, alone, as teens and preteens, we were dropped off all day at Disney at age 12, we jumped fences into people's yards, roamed the hillsides, gossiped for long periods on the round, enclosures at the top of the crazy high, hot metal slides at the park.

We had crazy wars at constructions sites. For years they built offices where there used to be orange groves in area surrounding our subdivision, which we easily reached jumping walls at the end of each culdesac. They had scaffolding all around that we ran around on, and we went into the newly built buildings and jumped off the scaffolds onto huge piles of sand and dirt they had. The entire neighborhood of kids would assemble there, divide into armies and using BB guns (yes, BB guns!) and pellet guns, and whatever weapons we could, attack the heck out of each other. And I don;t remember anyone running home crying either!!

We played weekly at the old cemetery right by my house. I still walk there sometimes when I am by my mom's. I roamed there alone sometimes, reading all the tombstones. It's a super cool place. The oldest and largest in Orange County. I also went with friends running around inside the mausoleum and we talked to the eerie attendant who one day had small bugs crawling around on his face!

You know, I wouldn't trade that free and beautiful childhood for all the playdates, X-boxes, I-phones/pads/pods, and over-scheduled days filled with a multitude of structured activities, in the world. Despite the risk.

And today if some parents continue not to give in to the fear, I refuse to criticize them. What have kids lost by not being able to play outside? More important, what have they gained? Since most kids who are killed are killed by family or people they know and trust like babysitters or whatever, is the incredible loss of freedom and joy worth it?

Well, my comment was deleted (???) so I guess I need to reword.

I think it's easy to say that way is best, because you made it safely. I was also allowed to be that way, as was a lot of kids. I know VERY FEW who did not have a terrifying experience. I, myself, was almost abducted when I was 7. (I live with that fear to THIS day.) My sister was molested, she lives with that to this day. Many of my friends were stalked, harmed, or attempted to be harmed. Just like parents who gave their kids alcohol when teething, or did not use car seats. Their children made it. BUT, if they didn't...do you think they would be telling you, that they don't regret it. It's easy to not have regrets, when you are one of the lucky ones. I did not mean any malice when I said asking her parents would be more appropriate. I simply meant, that living totally free range is wonderful, until it's not. Living with that, is an incredible burden.

*It was NOT worth it for me. I'd rather not have to live with being shoved into a white truck, by a man that smelled like cheap whiskey and grease, and have his hand trying to pry my legs apart. Not worth it at all.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

That's hilarious! Invisibility cloak!

I whisper loudly when telemarketers call ( I can see that with caller ID right on my tv screen) " it's done, but there's blood everywhere", then ...I hang up!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

My late Father-in-law used to get a ton of telemarketers for those old people scooters--he'd keep them on the phone, asking questions & seeming interested until they talked price. Then he'd say "Oh, *I* don't have any money! I thought you were paying for it!"

 

[greenpalm]

Makes you wonder why he would want publicity filing a complaint. Now everyone is going to know about his record.



Well, neighbors interviewed that she was always outside playing and running the neighborhood and Lhummingbird also said that maybe the reason she was always outside playing was because she was an extrovert in a family of introverts.

I'm not criticizing mind you. I understand why that's a concern, and well I should as my own experiences show!! But I also truly believe that child abductions ending in death are extremely, extremely rare and while most of us don't let our kids play outside alone in this day and age, I do rue what is being lost by this approach and I do, frankly, question it.

Despite my experiences, I had a glorious, free childhood. Us kids had the run of the neighborhood and surrounding areas, like the orange groves that were everywhere at the time. My godsister and I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, after spending the night at her house, get on our bikes and ride for miles and miles, all day, wandering the subdivisions in the hills, looking at horses, climbing trees.

Another one of my best friends and I would roam around old railroad tracks, sometimes talking to homeless people encamped there! and through drainage ditches and underground flood control tunnels (with flashlights), for hours and hours. It was great. We caught tadpoles in the ditches and scared ourselves in the dark tunnels reading weird graffiti and finding stuff like beer bottles and odd things. (Side note, when I was about 6, a friend and I caught several "tadpoles" and brought them into our bedrooms to grow in bowls of water. They were not "tadpoles". They were mosquitoes!!!!!)

We took the bus to the beach, alone, as teens and preteens, we were dropped off all day at Disney at age 12, we jumped fences into people's yards, roamed the hillsides, gossiped for long periods on the round, enclosures at the top of the crazy high, hot metal slides at the park.

We had crazy wars at constructions sites. For years they built offices where there used to be orange groves in area surrounding our subdivision, which we easily reached jumping walls at the end of each culdesac. They had scaffolding all around that we ran around on, and we went into the newly built buildings and jumped off the scaffolds onto huge piles of sand and dirt they had. The entire neighborhood of kids would assemble there, divide into armies and using BB guns (yes, BB guns!) and pellet guns, and whatever weapons we could, attack the heck out of each other. And I don;t remember anyone running home crying either!!

We played weekly at the old cemetery right by my house. I still walk there sometimes when I am by my mom's. I roamed there alone sometimes, reading all the tombstones. It's a super cool place. The oldest and largest in Orange County. I also went with friends running around inside the mausoleum and we talked to the eerie attendant who one day had small bugs crawling around on his face!

You know, I wouldn't trade that free and beautiful childhood for all the playdates, X-boxes, I-phones/pads/pods, and over-scheduled days filled with a multitude of structured activities, in the world. Despite the risk.

And today if some parents continue not to give in to the fear, I refuse to criticize them. What have kids lost by not being able to play outside? More important, what have they gained? Since most kids who are killed are killed by family or people they know and trust like babysitters or whatever, is the incredible loss of freedom and joy worth it?

Me too, me too, me too! As always Gitana1 you and I see things the same way. I'm able to do the math and I try to make decisions about what my kids do based on logic, and statistcs, not headlines.

And yet, last spring, the first time the VERY first time I let my two boys walk together to the library and candy store on the old town square (blocks away) a man in a truck pulled over and offered them a ride. They refused and he told them "good! You shouldn't ride with strangers!" And drove away. But, for heaven's sake, it made me angry that two tween boys couldn't walk three blocks to the library together… with a phone… without a creep stopping them.

I want to give them that kind of freedom. The oldest will be 13 next month. But this one incident scared me.

I have a six year old daughter, and she would not have been outside that long without checking in with me. Even in the 70's when I was a kid, I had to call my mom when I arrived at friends' homes in the neighborhood. She needed to know where I was. If I forgot to call when I got there, she made me come home.

Yet, I remember playing in the ditches and creeks just like you, and it was wonderful, right behind my friend's house, for hours on end, catching tadpoles, and going through the tunnels. Just like you described.

And, like you I had an experience the summer I was 14 that is probably why I'm here at Websleuths my classmate Danielle was raped and murdered just blocks from my house. I still have all the clippings right here on my shelf, tucked in my yearbook. It was the summer between Jr. High and highschool. It changed everything for me.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/1990/01/01/technology_Vs_trimboli.aspx